New brands, old ones going bust

[nickf]

In the last year we've seen Wiggle and CRC go bust as well as several established bike brands, Pole being the latest. Clearly the bike industry is going through troubled times and yet watching EMBN news vids over the same time period there seem to be a whole host of new bike brands launching new bikes. What's going on? How will these new brands survive when the established ones are struggling? Thoughts? Insights?

 

[steve_sordy]

You need to know why they went bust. in the case of Wiggle and CRC, they were both owned by the same company who decided to withdraw a financial guarantee to the bank. Without that guarantee, they could not continue to trade legally. Why did the parent company do this? I read on here this week, that it was a property related problem on the continent (maybe Germany) and had nothing to do with the bike industry. I don't know why Pole wound up.

Optimism is one of the great things about being human and many of us will always see the bright side. But no matter how optimistic they are, they will have had to carefully examine the extremely competitive market they are entering before drawing the conclusion that there is a niche for them. They must have done their homework and convinced their bank or their investors that they have a very good chance, or they would not be launching.

 

[cozzy]

Yes I've seen a few new brands launching ebikes with Shimano motors. I get why they have to use Shimano as they are too small to buy Bosch motors. Even pole, who as know has gone bust, had to buy Bosch via a third party.
Problem I see is that no-one wants a Shimano powered ebike, so I don't see how they are going to succeed.

 

[steve_sordy]

..............
Problem I see is that no-one wants a Shimano powered ebike, so I don't see how they are going to succeed.

I do! I've had two and so far, and during the last five and a half years they have been flawless.

I love the natural feel to the power delivery. When I was doing test rides in late 2018, it is that ride feel that was the significant feature that first attracted me to a Shimano-powered bike. That Shimano-powered bike was the first one that felt like me on a really good day! That was the e8000; the EP8 was a step change in performance, but it still had the same ride feel.

Note: I have ridden Shimano, Brose, Bosch, Yamaha, Giant(a remapped Yamaha I believe) and whatever motor it is they have on a Haibike. On the test rides, some motors even had different bikes!

I have read on here that one of the reasons that Shimano succeeds in selling to new starters and other relatively small companies is that they are prepared to sell in smaller minimum order quantities. At £500 a go, the difference between 500 and 1000 motors is not small change! Add in batteries, and the cash difference cannot be ignored. No doubt Shimano will push additional deals on the transmission, brakes, cranksets and so forth, to make the deal even more attractive!

PS: I still dislike Shimano's non-repair policy!

 

[Mikerb]

whilst the overall "E Bike" market has significant volume and growth, full suspension EMTB remains, by comparison, a niche market and better suited to fairly small volume boutique and/or specialist manufacturers than big brands with heavy overheads and a huge range of products.

 

[rod9301]

whilst the overall "E Bike" market has significant volume and growth, full suspension EMTB remains, by comparison, a niche market and better suited to fairly small volume boutique and/or specialist manufacturers than big brands with heavy overheads and a huge range of products.

Are you including specialized and Trek in the niche market?

 

[Mrj35]

I do! I've had two and so far, and during the last five and a half years they have been flawless.

I love the natural feel to the power delivery. When I was doing test rides in late 2018, it is that ride feel that was the significant feature that first attracted me to a Shimano-powered bike. That Shimano-powered bike was the first one that felt like me on a really good day! That was the e8000; the EP8 was a step change in performance, but it still had the same ride feel.

Note: I have ridden Shimano, Brose, Bosch, Yamaha, Giant(a remapped Yamaha I believe) and whatever motor it is they have on a Haibike. On the test rides, some motors even had different bikes!

I have read on here that one of the reasons that Shimano succeeds in selling to new starters and other relatively small companies is that they are prepared to sell in smaller minimum order quantities. At £500 a go, the difference between 500 and 1000 motors is not small change! Add in batteries, and the cash difference cannot be ignored. No doubt Shimano will push additional deals on the transmission, brakes, cranksets and so forth, to make the deal even more attractive!

PS: I still dislike Shimano's non-repair policy!

The shimanos still going so far almost 1000kms on mine. I have a buddy with a 2020 turbo levo and hes on his 3rd motor and he doesnt even use it much. I think its all relative, some people have problems with shimano, bosch, brose they all have issues. Some of the issues are definitely user errors that can be prevented too (water ingress from washing or big puddles, not understanding connections on the system, towing people putting it over the max weight etc).

 

[Mikerb]

Are you including specialized and Trek in the niche market?

. It is full sus EMTBs that is the niche market. Trek and Specialized are major players in the broader cycle market that include EMTBs in their extensive portfolios of mtbs, road bikes, kids bikes, tourers, city bikes etc.

 

[Bontee]

I do! I've had two and so far, and during the last five and a half years they have been flawless.

I love the natural feel to the power delivery. When I was doing test rides in late 2018, it is that ride feel that was the significant feature that first attracted me to a Shimano-powered bike. That Shimano-powered bike was the first one that felt like me on a really good day! That was the e8000; the EP8 was a step change in performance, but it still had the same ride feel.

Note: I have ridden Shimano, Brose, Bosch, Yamaha, Giant(a remapped Yamaha I believe) and whatever motor it is they have on a Haibike. On the test rides, some motors even had different bikes!

I have read on here that one of the reasons that Shimano succeeds in selling to new starters and other relatively small companies is that they are prepared to sell in smaller minimum order quantities. At £500 a go, the difference between 500 and 1000 motors is not small change! Add in batteries, and the cash difference cannot be ignored. No doubt Shimano will push additional deals on the transmission, brakes, cranksets and so forth, to make the deal even more attractive!

PS: I still dislike Shimano's non-repair policy!

cozzy,on what do you base your statement that “no-one wants a shimano powered ebike”I agree the non service issue is real ,but I have never heard anyone say they don’t want shimano powered ebikes.We all have preferences but I have an ep8 with over 2600 miles on it and it’s been perfect .I have a bunch of mates who ride shimano again no issues .
You along with some others can have your preference but to say “ no one wants shimano “is just not true at any level

 

[dimitrin]

I have a '23 Yamaha motor that needed replacing at 11 months/ 400 mi. Also 2 buddies with Brose motors, one with a '23 motor that was replaced at 6mo, the other with a '22 motor replaced at 23 months.
2 other buddies ride shimano motors with no issues.
Also, Yamaha and the new bosch motors have 52 points of engagement built into the motor. This means that there is slop that is inherent to the drive system and part of its design. The cranks at the motor ratchet just as a 52 point of engagement hub will ratchet.
I ride very technical trails and prefer a instant engaging rear hub such as a Onyx hub. The problem is that with my Yamaha motor, even though I have a Onyx Hub on the rear, I will never have better than 52 points of engagement due to the motor.
It gets even worse when compounded by a low engaging rear hub.
The Shimano and Brose have instant engagement. My buddies that ride with Onyx hubs and shimano or Brose motors have true instantaneous engagement, just as we do on our regular pedal bikes.
I think the way we've come to realize it regarding the motors, is that if you enjoy a nice natural pedal stroke that is always right where you want it, the Shimano and the Brose will have the most natural feel. If your all about winning the climb to the top with as much power as possible, the Bosch or the Yamaha may be the better bet.
...and a motor replacement could be right around the corner for any of the brands.

 

[Canyon Shawn]

What do you mean what’s going on. It’s called survival of the fittest. Just like any other industry. The shit gets flushed down the toilet and new companies emerge. It’s a constant cycle. Again, same as any other industry.