Neeko DeVinchi on EMTB FORUMS

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Well I guess the cats out of the bag.
I'll give you two guesses what my next frame built ebikes will be

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

www.frey.bike

FYI, Frey bikes do have UK dealers

 

[Doomanic]

Yet another electric motorcycle...

 

[Mteam]

Well I guess the cats out of the bag.
I'll give you two guesses what my next frame built ebikes will be

Best Value off road Electric Mountain Bike | Frey Ebike

Frey electric bikes are known for superior performance and reliable quality, and for long range ebike and big power ebike. It is a famous brand & manufacturer of the best off road electric bike for adults. We produce affordable electric bikes and accept OEM. USA/Europe warehouses for fast delivery.

www.frey.bike

View attachment 78316

FYI, Frey bikes do have UK dealers

weird geometry on those. enormous 467mm chainstays, relatively short reach 442mm on a large, long seat tube 460mm on a large.

Any ideas what they weigh?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Yet another electric motorcycle...

You can say what you want dude. As far as I'm concerned, not everyone chooses to use the M620 motor in the manner to which 'those who simply follow the testimonials of a select few who have never tried nor played around with the settings motor'.
Besides, in an ever growing world where some express concern for the availability of ebikes, I'm just trying to do my part by spreading the word.

But you're entitled to your opinion

 

[Doomanic]

Here's my opinion;

They're ugly. They're outdated, despite being "new". It's going to be heavier than the sun and handle like a bag of shit.

As for this;

As far as I'm concerned, not everyone chooses to use the M620 motor in the manner to which 'those who simply follow the testimonials of a select few who have never tried nor played around with the settings motor'.

Who on earth buys the cycling equivalent of Shrek so they can turn the power down??? Based on that comment, can I assume you won't be producing any videos showing the bike in full power mode anywhere other than private land?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

weird geometry on those. enormous 467mm chainstays, relatively short reach 442mm on a large, long seat tube 460mm on a large.

Any ideas what they weigh?

I'll let you know once I've built them. Granted, their will be discrepancies depending on the build (this includes battery options as well as you don't technically need to run the kilowatt battery and can run a 800wh or lower). Nevertheless, it's not going to be light. The M620 motor is on the heavier side (even after swapping the chainring and spider).
The geometry chart is somewhat false as the chainstay length has been revised to accommodate both 27.5 & 29er. So is the headtube angle.
The headtube length is somewhat long but I'm thankful that the works components headset can fit to give a 1.5° change.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

They're ugly. They're outdated, despite being "new".

Meh!!!
Dont get me wrong Dooms, you're always good for a laugh but their will be others who may look at this frame only option (knowing that Frey have uk dealers) and will be intrigued.
It's to those who are, that's why I'm building them. None of this "it must handle like a pile of shit' without even trying one

 

[Mteam]

Meh!!!
Dont get me wrong Dooms, you're always good for a laugh but their will be others who may look at this frame only option (knowing that Frey have uk dealers) and will be intrigued.
It's to those who are, that's why I'm building them. None of this "it must handle like a pile of shit' without even trying one

I didnt realise from your post - But are they actually legal to use in public in the uk? or are you buying an unlicensed/uninsured electric motorbike that can only be legally used on private land?

Its a bit misleading if they are not uk legal - isnt it?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I didnt realise from your post - But are they actually legal to use in public in the uk? or are you buying an unlicensed/uninsured electric motorbike that can only be legally used on private land?

Its a bit misleading if they are not uk legal - isnt it?

You've hit the nail on the head with that post @Mteam.
Without going into to much detail, and trying not to sound like a boffin , the M620 motor can be made legal to adhere to UK/EEuropean ebike laws. Its not as simple as going into the display and telling the motor not to exceed 15.5mph. Moreso, you have to drop the maximum current and change torque values to get the motor to spin in accordance with optimised mtb gearing.

Granted, amongst my fellow ebike nerds who we all mess around with different ebike motors, they have somewhat ridiculed me for my decision to use the M620 with a peak output of 120 newton meters instead of the 160 newton meters. But the trade off is that the range increases to reflect the higher capacity batteries these bikes come with. In addition to the internal components lasting longer.
The throttle is optional and indeed, you can build them up whereby only one lead is used to connect the display to the motor (rather than display, throttle and motor cut offs).

Pictures and videos will follow in due course but I'll do my utmost to answer questions.

I would hate it if anyone was going to buy something like this blind

 

[Mabman]

Right on Neeko! Frey seems like they want to get on top of making customers happy. As far as making everyone happy with their products I would say just let it slide.....I know I wasn't even in the market for an XL, at least that is how I think of Ultra bikes rather than SL's, and ended up with one and couldn't be happier with how if rides and handles. At least for my wheels on ground style. Some might not want to be seen riding one but they are alot of fun to ride.

I am up to my own devices when it comes to servicing bikes where I live and I think that a de-tuned Ultra, such as I run it at, will last a good long while and even if it does break I can order in the parts and fix it myself on the bench. The stump pulling torque is a bonus. I don't mess with the high speed stuff as you would get bucked off in a hot second where I ride.....

 

[Moderator]

Granted, their will be discrepancies

Sorry to clamp down on this but we don't want anyone being offended or finding themselves in prison due to incorrect wording.

As a legal specialist, you should be aware that it's "There" not "Their".

Their would suggest it's their's, as in it's their view or their bike. They were held against their will in that building over there. There will be a thorough investigation. They're (they are) presently being held by the police at the local Butlins until some more comfortable cells are freed up at the local police station.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Right on Neeko! Frey seems like they want to get on top of making customers happy. As far as making everyone happy with their products I would say just let it slide.....I know I wasn't even in the market for an XL, at least that is how I think of Ultra bikes rather than SL's, and ended up with one and couldn't be happier with how if rides and handles. At least for my wheels on ground style. Some might not want to be seen riding one but they are alot of fun to ride.

I am up to my own devices when it comes to servicing bikes where I live and I think that a de-tuned Ultra, such as I run it at, will last a good long while and even if it does break I can order in the parts and fix it myself on the bench. The stump pulling torque is a bonus. I don't mess with the high speed stuff as you would get bucked off in a hot second where I ride.....

View attachment 78337

Damn, that peice of trail looks sick!!!
Truth be told, I'd be reluctant to pin it on my of my ultra emtb's. Not because of the power. Cus I usually run 800mm+ bars on my ribs. I'd be snapping, grips, bars & fingers!!!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Sorry to clamp down on this but we don't want anyone being offended or finding themselves in prison due to incorrect wording.

As a legal specialist, you should be aware that it's "There" not "Their".

Their would suggest it's their's, as in it's their view or their bike. They were held against their will in that building over there. There will be a thorough investigation. They're (they are) presently being held by the police at the local Butlins until some more comfortable cells are freed up at the local police station.

Apologies @Moderator. I'm bouncing between four social media platforms so I'm not exactly proof reading my posts (that's what secretaries are for ).
But I'll be sure to proof read any further post I publish moving forward

 

[Gary]

Yet another electric motorcycle...

Eh? Looks like an emtb with a slightly more powerful motor and a larger battery (300wh larger than a Spesh)

They're ugly.

Eh? Looks like an emtb with a slightly more powerful motor and a larger battery (300wh larger than a Spesh)
And a fairly common taiwanese factory frame design. The downtube is ugly. but so is the TREK rail's or almost any full power/full battery integrated internal battery frame.

It's going to be heavier than the sun and handle like a bag of shit.

Eh? Looks like an emtb with a slightly more powerful motor and a larger battery (300wh larger than a Spesh)
So. what? 2kg heavier than the (now) average 24.5kg alloy Emtb maybe?
You think handling will matter to the type of rider who will mainly ride sat down on golf courses and can't yet manage to ride down a simple mellow stair set safely or in control?

can I assume you won't be producing any videos showing the bike in full power mode anywhere other than private land?

A few months back riding home I pulled up at a Red with a yellow workies safety jacket wearing commuter sat at the lights beside me on what looked like a steel hardtail (On one or something). When the lights changed to green the speed he accelerated off at with fairly obvious lack of effort made it obvious he was on an overpowered motor. I pedalled like fuck and caught up with him in a residential street (his cornering skill being more postman pat than valentino Rossi). so I asked him what motor he had. He replied "A BAFANG 1000" with a cheesy grin! and went on to say what it cost etc. and that the bike was a conversion. he also asked about my Shimano motor. I didn't bother commenting on the obvious illegality of the situation.
There must be plenty of these being used on the roads.
For commuting in a big coat I can see the attraction but I can't actually fathom why an able bodied rider with a healthy BMI, beginner level riding skills and what seems to be an incredibly dull definition of what mtbing is would actually want an Emtb with moar torque for. But each to their own, eh?

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

A few months back riding home I pulled up at a Red with a yellow workies safety jacket wearing commuter sat at the lights beside me on what looked like a steel hardtail (On one or something). When the lights changed to green the speed he accelerated off at with fairly obvious lack of effort made it was obvious he was on an overpowered motor. I pedalled like fuck and caught up with him in a residential street (his cornering skill being more postman pat than valentino Rossi). so I asked hom what motor he had. He replied "A BAFANG 1000" with a cheesy grin! and went on to say what it cost etc. and that the bike was a conversion. he also asked about my Shimano motor. I didn't bother commenting on the obvious illegality of the situation.

Damn it @Gary, How many times do we have to tell. We wonna see pictures or videos of that sh*t!!!!!
Did you atleast get his plate number? Lol.

 

[Gary]

My ride home is in the dark 6 months of the year.
If I see him in the summer months I'll try and remember to get a video for your amusement.

 

[Doomanic]

You think handling will matter to the type of rider who will mainly ride sat down on golf courses and can't yet manage to ride down a simple mellow stair set safely or in control?

A few months back riding home I pulled up at a Red with a yellow workies safety jacket wearing commuter sat at the lights beside me on what looked like a steel hardtail (On one or something). When the lights changed to green the speed he accelerated off at with fairly obvious lack of effort made it obvious he was on an overpowered motor. I pedaled like fuck and caught up with him in a residential street (his cornering skill being more postman pat than Valentino Rossi)

Whilst the skill level may be similar, at least the commuter won't be plastering his exploits all over You Tube...

 

[apac]

Meh!!!
Dont get me wrong Dooms, you're always good for a laugh but their will be others who may look at this frame only option (knowing that Frey have uk dealers) and will be intrigued.
It's to those who are, that's why I'm building them. None of this "it must handle like a pile of shit' without even trying one

You've hit the nail on the head with that post @Mteam.
Without going into to much detail, and trying not to sound like a boffin , the M620 motor can be made legal to adhere to UK/EEuropean ebike laws. Its not as simple as going into the display and telling the motor not to exceed 15.5mph. Moreso, you have to drop the maximum current and change torque values to get the motor to spin in accordance with optimised mtb gearing.

Granted, amongst my fellow ebike nerds who we all mess around with different ebike motors, they have somewhat ridiculed me for my decision to use the M620 with a peak output of 120 newton meters instead of the 160 newton meters. But the trade off is that the range increases to reflect the higher capacity batteries these bikes come with. In addition to the internal components lasting longer.
The throttle is optional and indeed, you can build them up whereby only one lead is used to connect the display to the motor (rather than display, throttle and motor cut offs).

Pictures and videos will follow in due course but I'll do my utmost to answer questions.

I would hate it if anyone was going to buy something like this blind

being able to turn down the power does not make it legal. The fact that it is capable of putting out more power with the battery and controller makes it illegal.

 

[apac]

Damn, that peice of trail looks sick!!!
Truth be told, I'd be reluctant to pin it on my of my ultra emtb's. Not because of the power. Cus I usually run 800mm+ bars on my ribs. I'd be snapping, grips, bars & fingers!!!

Jesus dude, you're all talk. At least I go out and actually break heads, arms and fingers ( my own, that is!)

 

[apac]

Damn, that peice of trail looks sick!!!
Truth be told, I'd be reluctant to pin it on my of my ultra emtb's. Not because of the power. Cus I usually run 800mm+ bars on my ribs. I'd be snapping, grips, bars & fingers!!!

The bikes you are riding are not powerful at all.

 

[Doomanic]

Electric bikes: licensing, tax and insurance

Electric bikes meeting the EAPC regulations can be ridden on the road without being taxed, licensed or insured

www.gov.uk

Not as clear as they used to be, but simpler to understand unless you are determined to interpret them to suit.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Running at 250w nominal, 750w peak with a maximum current of 20amps is legal. And their is no need 'misinterpretations'.
@apac, what are you talking about? 'The bikes you are riding are not powerful at all.' Compared to your home built ebikes with the custom batteries you've built, yeah they're probably not as powerful. But the power of these motors (dialled down even!!), is still stronger than a mainstream motor. Notwithstanding the mechanical advantage you can give a motor by addressing such things as net weight, gearing etc.

 

[RustyIron]

Without going into to much detail, and trying not to sound like a boffin

Dude, I never know what you guys are talking about. Luckily, there's google. Boffin is a good thing, right?

Anyway, the best thing about your posts is how everyone gets all upset about them. Apparently some folks don't like it when others are having a good time. Don't pay them no nevermind. Build your bikes bigger, faster, and ride them where you want! Woot!

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Huh!!!
I hope other members don't get upset @RustyIron (nor would I want them too). In all honesty, I welcome the chatter and opinions. Besides, the above messages merely reflect initial apprehension and questions which need to be answered moving forward.

Appreciate your efforts and enthusiasm RustyIron. But please, you need not worry. I'm all about spreading the word and passing on what I've learnt

 

[RustyIron]

I'm all about spreading the word and passing on what I've learnt

Right on, brother. In these parts, some riders are apprehensive about riding EMTB's in some areas. In some areas there is a lot of controversy, and in some areas it's been "decided" that EMTB's are not legal. But there are other laws that prohibit the prohibition. As with anything new, there is confusion. It was the same way when automobiles first started. When people ask me if they can ride in a particular area, my response is usually, "Sure, you'll be fine. Just don't ride like a wanker. Let's go!" Of course the same advice would apply if they were on an Amish bike... or a horse.

 

[apac]

Running at 250w nominal, 750w peak with a maximum current of 20amps is legal. And their is no need 'misinterpretations'.
@apac, what are you talking about? 'The bikes you are riding are not powerful at all.' Compared to your home built ebikes with the custom batteries you've built, yeah they're probably not as powerful. But the power of these motors (dialled down even!!), is still stronger than a mainstream motor. Notwithstanding the mechanical advantage you can give a motor by addressing such things as net weight, gearing etc.

Home built ebikes are largely illegal. Why? Because they are home built. It would be hard to prove that your bike is legal as it won't have a manufacturer stamp on it which is required by law. so when you eventually run over some ones dog in the local park you will be taken as driving a motor vehicle with undue care and attention with no insurance, mot, tax, licence plate and crash helmet.
I'm not saying I agree with the law or disagree with you riding home built bikes... I did it for many years...BUT you do need to understand the consequences and the FACT you are breaking the law.

 

[Doomanic]

Just saying

Your (sic) wasting you're (sic) breath here; he's buried too deep in the illusion that he's riding a legal bike. TBH, given the unwise locations he seems to film at it'll be sooner rather than later that he gets to test that illusion.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

Home built ebikes are largely illegal. Why? Because they are home built. It would be hard to prove that your bike is legal as it won't have a manufacturer stamp on it which is required by law. so when you eventually run over somone's dog in the local park you will be taken as driving a motor vehicle with undue care and attention with no insurance, mot, tax, licence plate and crash helmet. Just saying

I'm glad you said that. Manufacturer stamp...... Bare with me.
Oh, let me also check for the certificate of electrical safety as well

 

[apac]

I'm glad you said that. Manufacturer stamp...... Bare with me.
Oh, let me also check for the certificate of electrical safety as well

you don't need electrical safety, but the bike itself needs a conformity stamp. Not the motor.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

you don't need electrical safety, but the bike itself needs a conformity stamp. Not the motor.

Pretty sure the motor needs one as well but like I said, bare with me