My Tubeless Experience

[Mikerb]

I have done nearly 500 miles on my my19 Levo Comp using tubes. In that time I have only had 2 punctures..one due to a thorn which only lost pressure when I noticed the thorn and pulled it out of the tyre...and the other on chicken wire fence! So no real incentive to go tubeless from the point of view of punctures but I always intended to go tubeless on my second set of tyres. Nevertheless I decided to give it a go with my existing ( stock ) tyres just to gain some experience beforehand.
I bought the Giant airtank which was a bargain at £32, and some Stans No Tubes Sealant. The wheels are already taped as standard and 2 tubeless valves came with the bike.
Given the tyres are used I first removed the tyre and tube and thoroughly cleaned both the rim and the tyre, then put the tubeless valve in. I used the method of seating nearly the complete tyre but just leaving a section on one side unseated, and poured in 100ml of Stans. Then fully seated the tyre. Connected the Giant airtank and released the lever. Done!
For anyone considering an airtank, the Giant does the job fine. Pressurising it to 160 psi with my track pump was a bit of a workout but doable. I was not sure how long to leave it connected so just waited for 3 "pops" and then disconnected it. As it turned out I could have left it a little longer because when I checked the tyre was only at 20 psi. I pumped it up to 33 psi with the track pump and then rotated and shook the wheel to get the sealant well distributed.
The only slight problem I experienced with the Giant airtank was getting a good connection on the schraeder valve to pressurise it. Giant have set the schraeder valve in a recess to protect it from getting knocked but the rather bulky presta/schraeder connector on my track pump fouled the sides of that recess. No big problem though. I reduced the height of the sides of the recess with a Stanley knife a few mm and the connection is now easy.

 

[Mikerb]

…...forgot to say...I also sprayed, then brushed in, soapy water on both beads before attaching the airtank.

 

[miPbiP]

I've always found Spesh tyres a doddle to inflate tubeless. Other brands less so.

 

[#lazy]

I’ve been tubeless for a few year now and so far no punctures however have lost air around the values which is a common issue . I now tape well and don’t tighten the lock nut too tight !

 

[Mikerb]

I tightened the locknut as much as I could by hand...no tools. Overtightening can push out the rubber "o" ring under the head of the valve stem.

 

[Mikerb]

I've always found Spesh tyres a doddle to inflate tubeless. Other brands less so.

Yes, I did wonder if the Butchers made it easy.....and I know from reading here that some tyres are a complete pain...or even impossible ...to get on the rim let alone seated! Maybe a few people could comment on tyres to avoid for that reason??

 

[miPbiP]

I recall Schwalbe always being tricky. It comes down to how tight the tolerance is on the beading I think.

 

[Mikerb]

I recall Schwalbe always being tricky. It comes down to how tight the tolerance is on the beading I think.

One measurement none of the various measuring systems specify is the height of the bead section of the rim. I suspect the problem with difficult to fit tyres has more to do with the rim than the tyre because if the tyre manufacturer is designing the bead of the tyre to the circumference at the bottom of the rim bead section but the height of that bead section is greater on any particular rim then it is going to have a hard job getting stretched over the outer circumference.

 

[GrahamPaul]

One measurement none of the various measuring systems specify is the height of the bead section of the rim. I suspect the problem with difficult to fit tyres has more to do with the rim than the tyre because if the tyre manufacturer is designing the bead of the tyre to the circumference at the bottom of the rim bead section but the height of that bead section is greater on any particular rim then it is going to have a hard job getting stretched over the outer circumference.

I'm not sure about that. The ETRTO system defines the bead seat diameter, which is the bit of rim against the bead. (Good diagram here).

I think it's more down to tolerances in fabrication. A millimetre too small on the rim is only a fabrication error of less that 0.2%, which is a pretty tight tolerance. Similarly, for a tyre, a millimetre too large is also a tiny problem in tolerance, but the ensuing 2mm sloppy fit will be noticeable (or ridiculously tight fit for the tolerance in the other direction).

I'm always amazed at how few problems I get fitting tubeless. Sometimes a bit of extra taping to make up for a sloppy fit, but otherwise I'm (mostly) pleasantly surprised.

 

[GrahamPaul]

For anyone considering an airtank, the Giant does the job fine. Pressurising it to 160 psi with my track pump was a bit of a workout but doable. I was not sure how long to leave it connected so just waited for 3 "pops" and then disconnected it. As it turned out I could have left it a little longer because when I checked the tyre was only at 20 psi. I pumped it up to 33 psi with the track pump and then rotated and shook the wheel to get the sealant well distributed.

I don't think any air tank will get you more pressure in the tyre than that. I can't remember the make of my air can, but it has never managed to get anywhere near 20psi. There just isn't the volume of air in the tank to do more. It's purpose is to provide that blast of air to "shock" the tyre beads against the rim. I always end up doing the rest of the inflation with the track pump.

 

[KennyB]

Absolutely. Taking the valve core out is supposed to help. I did have problems once getting a very stuff walled true to seat. I had one last go before putting a tube in, seating the tyre, and taking the tube out, leaving one side seated.

 

[Mikerb]

I'm not sure about that. The ETRTO system defines the bead seat diameter, which is the bit of rim against the bead. (Good diagram here).

I think it's more down to tolerances in fabrication. A millimetre too small on the rim is only a fabrication error of less that 0.2%, which is a pretty tight tolerance. Similarly, for a tyre, a millimetre too large is also a tiny problem in tolerance, but the ensuing 2mm sloppy fit will be noticeable (or ridiculously tight fit for the tolerance in the other direction).

I'm always amazed at how few problems I get fitting tubeless. Sometimes a bit of extra taping to make up for a sloppy fit, but otherwise I'm (mostly) pleasantly surprised.

Bead seat diameter measured at the base of the bead.....but no measurement at the top of the bead......so no measure of the total diameter of the rim. A taller rim wall will result in a bigger overall rim circumference

 

[GrahamPaul]

Bead seat diameter measured at the base of the bead.....but no measurement at the top of the bead......so no measure of the total diameter of the rim. A taller rim wall will result in a bigger overall rim circumference

Although this can make the tyre harder to get over the rim in the first place, it's the tyre bead to bead seat interface which is critical for actually sealing the tyre.

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. I thought the remarks were concerned with getting a tyre to seal (which for me is "fitting a tubeless tyre). Are you making the point that the tyre is a bit hard to get on and off? No issue with that, I just put Tannus Armour in some Schwalbe tyres and have had finger pain for a week.

I'm not sure of your point. Seriously. I am not trolling.

 

[steve_sordy]

.......... For anyone considering an airtank, the Giant does the job fine. Pressurising it to 160 psi with my track pump was a bit of a workout but doable. I was not sure how long to leave it connected so just waited for 3 "pops" and then disconnected it. As it turned out I could have left it a little longer because when I checked the tyre was only at 20 psi. I pumped it up to 33 psi with the track pump and then rotated and shook the wheel to get the sealant well distributed.
....................

I have an Airshot, does same job as the Giant. I only use it to blow the beads onto the rims. I then use the track pump to inflate the tyre to above 40psi, which is where the banging and cracking takes places as the beads expand further and lock into place. I put the sealant in before I use the Airshot, so after track pump inflation, I shake and rotate the wheel to distribute the sealant. I measure the air pressure, then I place the wheel horizontally onto a bucket or a plant pot and leave it for 30 mins or so to monitor any pressure loss. If all OK, I fit the wheel onto the bike. If not, I re-inflate to a target pressure (say 40psi), then give the wheel another shake and rotate and place it back on the bucket the other way up. This is mostly only needed on new tyres that need the pores in the sidewall sealing. For wheels that have already been in use, I can mostly just fill, inflate and go.

 

[Mikerb]

Although this can make the tyre harder to get over the rim in the first place, it's the tyre bead to bead seat interface which is critical for actually sealing the tyre.

Perhaps we are talking at cross purposes. I thought the remarks were concerned with getting a tyre to seal (which for me is "fitting a tubeless tyre). Are you making the point that the tyre is a bit hard to get on and off? No issue with that, I just put Tannus Armour in some Schwalbe tyres and have had finger pain for a week.

I'm not sure of your point. Seriously. I am not trolling.

no problems mate!!...yep I was referring to how easy..or not...it is to get the tyre on the rim. My point being that with the Butchers I can get both sides of the tyre on the rim by hand so when you are trying to get the final bit on the rim with a load of sealant splashing around in the bottom of the tyre, it just makes life easy.

 

[Mikerb]

So today I had my first ride having converted to tubeless. I ran with 20 psi up front and 24 in the rear and was riding natural forest trails.....so lots of bare roots, tree stumps, mud, sand, but no rocks. I was genuinely surprised at the difference. The bike felt more compliant, much less jarring and more grip everywhere, even over angled roots. I wondered if I was just subconsciously "self affirming" so I swopped bikes with my mate ( also a Levo/running on tubes) and he agreed with my comments.
What I have realized now is that I need a decent tyre pressure gauge because a track pump with readings up to 160 psi just does not enable fine tuning of pressures below 30 psi.

 

[steve_sordy]

............
What I have realized now is that I need a decent tyre pressure gauge because a track pump with readings up to 160 psi just does not enable fine tuning of pressures below 30 psi.

Consider the Topeak D2 digital tyre pressure gauge.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/topeak-smarthead-digital-gauge-d2/

They last for ages and ages, can read Schrader and Presta valves, so they work on your car tyres too. Three different pressure units (psi, bar, kg/cm2). Also has a deflation mode if you overfill. I always overfill and use the deflate to get down to the correct pressure. In this mode the gauge flashes rapidly as the pressure falls. I have no idea how accurate my gauge is, but I know that it is consistent.

 

[Mikerb]

Already ordered precisely that! It really does not matter how accurate it is provided it is consistent although CRC feedback suggests the accuracy is pretty good.

 

[#lazy]

Agreed , as long as you use the same device that’s consistent all the time !

 

[Mavik]

Consider the Topeak D2 digital tyre pressure gauge.
https://www.wiggle.co.uk/topeak-smarthead-digital-gauge-d2/

They last for ages and ages, can read Schrader and Presta valves, so they work on your car tyres too. Three different pressure units (psi, bar, kg/cm2). Also has a deflation mode if you overfill. I always overfill and use the deflate to get down to the correct pressure. In this mode the gauge flashes rapidly as the pressure falls. I have no idea how accurate my gauge is, but I know that it is consistent.

Yes the gauge is one of the better investments I made. Very useful and thanks to it where I am constantly aware of my tyre pressure before any ride, I have been tubeless for a year and never had any punctures. Still using the Specialized Butchers 2.6" tyres.

 

[Mikerb]

On the subject of tyres I have never understood negative comments on here about the Butcher Grid. I have done 500 trail miles on mine in everything from local heath and pine forest to Welsh and Peak District rock gardens and found them robust and reliable with good rolling speed and grip. I found no lack of bite on cornering which is often the main critisism of them once I learnt to use the right cornering technique.....even on berms. Now running them tubeless I have found more compliance and grip ......so I have bought 2 more......and the best thing is I got them at less than half price now that Spesh has released the mk2 version. 2 tyres for less than the price of one Maxxis or Shwalbe!