Multiple Bosch Smartsystem controller errors, bike unusable

[UnicornCrazy]

Hello all, I hope you're all having good days! I've got a mystery keeping me off the trails that I could really use some help with.

Two years ago my mum brought me a Scott Patron Ebike, which is equipped with the Bosch Smartsystem. It has the Bosch performance line CX motor, the LED remote, the Kiox300, and a Bosch Powertube 750wh battery. When we got it we had an issue with the LED Remote not connecting to the rest of the bike, but putting it on a USB charger for a bit seemed to fix the issue and it has since worked without flaw for two years.

The other day, for seemingly no reason, that stopped being the case.

First it kept turning off whilst charging, but after a re-connection of the charger it finished charging. However, When I went to ride it a few days later, the system was turning off on its own within seconds of being turned on with no apparent reason. Since this appeared similar to the original issue when we got the bike, we tried to same thing of connecting a USB charger to the LED Remote. This resulted in a reboot loop culminating in the LED remote flashing orange a few times then staying orange, with no data ever loading on the Kiox display.

We managed to get it to pair with the flow app on a tablet (my phone doesn't meet the bluetooth requirements) and got three error codes:

• Warning 50301B - Your drive unit was restarted unexpectedly (unsurprising given it went into a reboot loop)
• Error 112100 - Your Control Unit has a communication error
• Error 1F0200 - No on-board computer detected

We took the main battery out and found corrosion on the terminals - apparently there has been water getting into the battery compartment and then failing to dry away again. We cleaned that and let everything dry, but it didn't fix the errors. In addition, we confirmed that the battery is responding as expected when not connected to the bicycle. The battery does appear to be connecting to the rest of the system and providing power.

Trying to charge the LED remote as before has made no difference. Cables that we can access to LED remote and Kiox are all connected and appear undamaged.

Researching the error codes above has yielded little information barring one forum thread on Ebikeforums discussing how there's been a lot of bugged LED Remote units with bad batteries/bad charging circuits/etc, which can cause all sorts of issues including the error 112100 being mentioned, so we tried replacing that. However this new unit continues the same reboot loop behaviour, and trying to connect it to the flow app results in failure, with the app saying it is not responding.

I'm trying to avoid having to take it to a dealership as we don't have a car and live a long way from any places I'm certain are set up for this - I could email one bike place in a local town close enough to ride to without power and see if they can do anything, but if they can't help me I'll have to ride to the nearest train station with the bike and take it on the train to a large town where they *can* help me.

Does anyone have any theories on what could be the issue or suggestions of what to look at/how I might fix this? I'd really like to be able to resolve this myself if possible but my mum and I are stuck without a clue at this point and need help.

TLDR: Scott Patron ebike running Bosch Smartsystem. After an initial error and then two years working without issue, bike suddenly won't turn on correctly/stay on and gives errors listed above. Battery is fine, externally accessible cables are fine, changing for a new LED remote hasn't fixed the issue. Trying to solve myself as accessing a dealership isn't simple. Need suggestions on what could be going on.

 

[UnicornCrazy]

Sorry if this isn't quite the right section of the forum btw, I'm new here, but this was where I saw other people posing about issues with the bosch smartsystem so I figured close enough?

 

[Jackware]

Where abouts in Wales are you, as any Bosch agent should be able to plug your bike onto their diagnostic system to investigate the problem?

 

[Mikerb]

I think you said you tried a different LED Remote but with the same result. In that case a very quick thing you could try is to remove the Kiox 300 from the system. At the moment the cable connected to the LED Remote connects to one terminal on the Kiox 300, the other cable connected to the Kiox 300 then goes to the main battery plug on the main battery. Just disconnect the cable connection on the LED Remote and then disconnect the second cable on the KIOX 300 and connect it to the LED Remote. This is how the system is wired if there is no Kiox fitted and by doing the above you remove the possibility that the Kiox, or more likely its connections to its cradle, are causing your problems.

 

[UnicornCrazy]

Where abouts in Wales are you, as any Bosch agent should be able to plug your bike onto their diagnostic system to investigate the problem?

I don't wish to disclose my exact location, suffice it to say I'm in a relatively rural region. As stated in my post, anywhere I am confident is a licensed bosch servicer is a train journey away and I'm a distance from the nearest station. I also do not have a car. Besides! I want to learn about this! I love learning and mechanics and the more of the maintenance we can do ourselves at home the better. Even if we ultimately can't solve this, we'll get to learn more about the system in the process of trying and that's worth doing ^_^. Why pay money for someone else to do something I could learn about?

I think you said you tried a different LED Remote but with the same result. In that case a very quick thing you could try is to remove the Kiox 300 from the system. At the moment the cable connected to the LED Remote connects to one terminal on the Kiox 300, the other cable connected to the Kiox 300 then goes to the main battery plug on the main battery. Just disconnect the cable connection on the LED Remote and then disconnect the second cable on the KIOX 300 and connect it to the LED Remote. This is how the system is wired if there is no Kiox fitted and by doing the above you remove the possibility that the Kiox, or more likely its connections to its cradle, are causing your problems.

Thank you for the suggestion! We'll take a look at that, and even if it doesn't resolve this it's good to know how it'd be wired without the Kiox in case I do ever have an issue there.

 

[UnicornCrazy]

Okay so, update time.

I tried bypassing the Kiox 300 and connecting the LED remote to the system directly - no dice. I tried with both the old and new remote and both showed no change in behaviour.

I followed the suggestion of someone on reddit to check where the cables connect into the side of the motor. This is quite hard to access on this bike - whilst there is a panel that can be removed, the frame still mostly covers those connectors (as the attached image shows). However, I was able to verify that these do all seem plugged in securely.

I've also a few notes on the behaviour of the system:
the LED Remote turning off immediately after being turned on seems to be the exact same behaviour whether it's connected to the bike or whether it's plugged into nothing at all. It's as if the bike isn't telling it that it's connected to something and so should stay on.
the Kiox only powers when connected to the bike, but it does power on when connected fully. This tells me power is coming out of the battery to the rest of the system, and that the system is getting both the "turn on" and "turn off" signals from the remote. The Kiox is getting as far as loading the normal screen before the LED remote turns everything off again, but its not displaying any data - Battery %, pedal power, etc, are all displaying -- instead of numbers.
This makes me wonder if, since the cable seems to be solidly connected at both display and motor and neither LED remote or Kiox 300 seem to be the source of the issue, the cable could have got damaged inside the frame somehow? And now it's transmitting power but not data? I'm unsure how this could have occurred, but unless there's another place where that cable connects to something else that seems like a possibility.

Does anyone have any other ideas? Or any suggestions of how I might check if there is cable damage? I'd simply disconnect the cable from the motor and connect the LED remote directly with a different cable to test it but there's so little room that I'm wary of causing damage, or simply being unable to reconnect stuff. Hell, I'm not convinced there's even enough space there to disconnect the cable in the first place.

 

[Mikerb]

To clarify some aspects of the Bosch smart system you have using the LED Remote as the controller ( or what Flow refers to as the computer). It has its own rechargeable battery so will operate initially without any connection to the rest of the sytem. The white bars lighting up in turn denotes it is switching on. OK so properly connected to the network it switches on and sends a signal to the battery to switch on. If that fails...ie the battery does not switch on, or not recieve that signal then the LED Remote shuts down.
So I think you are correct in assuming your issue lies in a damaged cable coming from ( in your case) the Kiox 300, to the battery, or a bad connection on either end of that cable.
It maybe worth considering now what could cause that cable to be damaged recently. I dont know what year or model Scott Patron you have but does it by any chance have cables routed through the headset ( rather than via holes/grommets on each sode of the top tube)? If so that is most likely where cable damage will occur. If your bike has that arrangement you need to disassemble the headset at least sufficient to inspect the cable that comes from the Kiox where it passess through the headset. A number of bikes with that arrangement have suffered cable damage through rubbing usually causing a short or high resistance disconnection.

 

[UnicornCrazy]

To clarify some aspects of the Bosch smart system you have using the LED Remote as the controller ( or what Flow refers to as the computer). It has its own rechargeable battery so will operate initially without any connection to the rest of the sytem. The white bars lighting up in turn denotes it is switching on. OK so properly connected to the network it switches on and sends a signal to the battery to switch on. If that fails...ie the battery does not switch on, or not recieve that signal then the LED Remote shuts down.
So I think you are correct in assuming your issue lies in a damaged cable coming from ( in your case) the Kiox 300, to the battery, or a bad connection on either end of that cable.
It maybe worth considering now what could cause that cable to be damaged recently. I dont know what year or model Scott Patron you have but does it by any chance have cables routed through the headset ( rather than via holes/grommets on each sode of the top tube)? If so that is most likely where cable damage will occur. If your bike has that arrangement you need to disassemble the headset at least sufficient to inspect the cable that comes from the Kiox where it passess through the headset. A number of bikes with that arrangement have suffered cable damage through rubbing usually causing a short or high resistance disconnection.

Ohh that's good to know! Yes my bike has the cables coming in at the side of the stem where the handles connect to the frame rather than going to the top tube. (we're pretty sure that's where the water has been getting in to the top of the battery compartment too - there's no rubber seals it's just an open hole perfectly positioned for rain or splashes from a bike in front going through puddles to funnel directly into the frame. We plan to seal or cover it somehow to lessen water ingress in future) I'll absolutely have a look there, because otherwise I can't really think of anything that could have happened to the cable? There's no visible damage where it's exposed out of the frame and I've not battered my handlebars on anything... Except I guess, we did have to push past/through some fallen trees a couple rides back because of all the storms we had? I didn't notice anything catching on the cables but perhaps?

If it is damage at where it goes into the headset, is there anything you would recommend to prevent that occurring in future?

 

[Mikerb]

Ohh that's good to know! Yes my bike has the cables coming in at the side of the stem where the handles connect to the frame rather than going to the top tube. (we're pretty sure that's where the water has been getting in to the top of the battery compartment too - there's no rubber seals it's just an open hole perfectly positioned for rain or splashes from a bike in front going through puddles to funnel directly into the frame. We plan to seal or cover it somehow to lessen water ingress in future) I'll absolutely have a look there, because otherwise I can't really think of anything that could have happened to the cable? There's no visible damage where it's exposed out of the frame and I've not battered my handlebars on anything... Except I guess, we did have to push past/through some fallen trees a couple rides back because of all the storms we had? I didn't notice anything catching on the cables but perhaps?

If it is damage at where it goes into the headset, is there anything you would recommend to prevent that occurring in future?

I know that some have experienced damage to the cables there due to them rubbing against the head tube. Sorry I have no experiece of that arrangement...I would never buy a bike with cables routed through the headset. You would be best asking for advice on better alternatives as a separate topic on here.

 

[irie]

I would never buy a bike with cables routed through the headset.

Me neither, that's an absolute no-no, a victory of fashion over function.

 

[UnicornCrazy]

Well, unfortunately "I would never buy a bike with that routing" comes a bit late and isn't very useful, as re-routing the cables a different way isn't an option (Unless I want to drill holes in the frame, which I don't, or route externally which is *more* likely to get broken due to stones getting kicked up off the trails) and A. I love this bike and B. I can't afford to swap it for a different one even if I wanted to xD.

I will, however, remember this issue should I ever get another bike in years to come.

If it does turn out that this is the issue, I will indeed post a thread elsewhere asking for suggestions of how to mitigate the issue.