Rail (750Wh) Mulleting the Rail

[Dave_B]

Anyone done this and have any feedback?
I'm not sure I can see the point, the chainstay length will be the same, so I'm not really sure how much 'better' the Rail would be with the smaller rear wheel?

 

[Jag009]

I thought about doing this to my bike ,but after riding a couple of mullets now on a nice varied trail i know well ,i am not going to bother , yes they turn a bit tighter and are a bit lighter , but i was no faster on it (not my bike so did want to bend it ) but the guy who was on my bike and is a more talented rider than me was quite a bit faster on mine than his bike
Both bikes are very very similar spec barr mine has electric shift , but he does not reckon that should have made that much of a difference, he is now scratching his head

 

[Jag009]

a couple of tips in this vid if you do want to change

 

[Paulquattro]

I can’t stand 29” wheels so I’m definitely in a different camp all together
I did try mullet but not much difference only turn in was better
I’m on full 27.5 now and it feels 100% better for me
I’m in the mind set that I couldn’t careless if it’s slightly slower as I’m not racing I just want the bike to feel how I want it to feel and for me that’s 27.5

 

[Doug Stampfer]

If you don't have a problem with a 29 rear wheel don't bother but if you want better handling around really tight corners & less arse buzz on steep stuff then they're a winner. That's prob the only reason to swap.
I find my mullet awesome I wouldn't say I was faster on any of the tracks with a mullet but I can ride tracks I struggled with before - going fast isn't a priority with me, getting down horrible tracks without breaking my body is more a priority. I'd never go back to a 29 rear wheel.
Downsides - pedal strikes, hang up on roots easier.

 

[KRA]

Can someone help me with this? If a 27.5 wheels does not affect the wheel base of the bike and said bike has no geo change of the chain stay how does a mullet bike turn better.? I understand that it helps with tyre buzz but it will also drop bb height and slacken out head angle unless flip chip is used to compensate for this!

 

[Dave_B]

That’s the reason I asked.

The flip chip has to be used to compensate for BB height, but other than that I can’t really see the point if chainstay length remains the same.

Mullet bikes are designed as such and benefit from a shorter chainstay provided by the smaller rear wheel.

 

[Paulquattro]

Can someone help me with this? If a 27.5 wheels does not affect the wheel base of the bike and said bike has no geo change of the chain stay how does a mullet bike turn better.? I understand that it helps with tyre buzz but it will also drop bb height and slacken out head angle unless flip chip is used to compensate for this!

Hi
It turns in better over the 29 because a smaller wheel will want to take a shorter line hence making the bike want to cut in
Also the smaller wheel has less gyroscopic effect making it easier to lean over and manoeuvre
Like i said i much prefer my bike with feel over speed so im firmly in the 27 camp i would run 26 bikes if they still made them

 

[Doug Stampfer]

As the fatrat says they turn in a lot quicker. I can ride tighter uphill corners I couldn't get round with the 29. The wheel kinda drops over into the corner easier. On the tight downhills I would have to drag the 29 rear wheel around locked up whereas I find the 27 rear will get around without me thinking about it.
Some others that have tried it went back to the 29. Really depends on the trails you ride- on flowy trails I don't think there's any benefit & I think if you're doubting whether you need to mullet you probably already have the correct answer.
I didn't really mullet mine to be with the cool kids but was blown away by & wanted to get the same handling as my wifes factory mulleted bike

 

[Dago]

Also ride dirt bikes. They are set up 18-21. I love my Levo mullet as it feels more like a motorcycle, over all terrain.

 

[Desert_Turtle]

I run my new Rail as a mullet. It’s an absolute game changer. It’s a totally different bike. It’s a highly recommended change. The only downside is the BB height which hasn’t been an issue for me.

 

[Gman086]

Can someone help me with this? If a 27.5 wheels does not affect the wheel base of the bike and said bike has no geo change of the chain stay how does a mullet bike turn better.? I understand that it helps with tyre buzz but it will also drop bb height and slacken out head angle unless flip chip is used to compensate for this!

When using the high position of the flip chip you actually shorten the chainstays (though not enough to make a major difference). The bigger effect has to do with carving using a smaller rear wheel... without going into an in-depth physics lesson you basically need to understand how wheel radius lengths work when leaning the bike over and carving at high speeds (you will actually be counter-steering with the front wheel). Beginners and intermediate riders that don't throw their bike over on turns won't see the difference as starkly. To visualize... take a long stick and try waving it back and forth and then do the same with a shorter stick. On a mullet the rear end comes over quicker like the shorter stick while the front wheel counter-steers at speed thus allowing for noticeable turn-in advantages. You are shortening the effective radius of the bike's carving ability similar to using a shorter radius snowboard. This has ZERO to do with chainstay length or wheelbase which become more important for slow speed cornering. Another massive advantage is the bike is now rotated slightly to the rear (yes, even in the high flipchip position) and the pivot radius of the rear wheel is now shorter so you can manual far FAR easier now making "active" riding a pure joy (again, beginner and intermediate riders won't see much gain here). I'll close by saying short chainstays on e-bikes is just flat out over-rated in large part because the frame designer needs to offset the weight of the motor with much of its weight in front of the crank spindle. I used to think like you and look at that number first but it doesn't have that much of an affect on ebikes... in fact my mullet Rail out-corners my Canfield Balance with 425mm chainstays by a good margin (in part due to the better traction of a heavier bike).

As to whether or not one should mullet... there is a nice thread in the Trek forum already about this. My opinion is if you mainly trail ride then stick with stock; it rolls faster and climbs better. However, if you're an advanced/expert rider that likes to ride the steep and deep, and if you have a 30" inseam or shorter, then you absolutely 100% should be on a mullet IMHO. I won't be changing back but I will likely get a Fuel EXe at some point for a pure trail riding bike/all day epics.

Have FUN!

G MAN

 

[Regiobike77]

My rail 7 is mullet and 9.7 29", i really love how the mullet setup feels on enduro trailsz fast cornering, and climbs nice. Its XL frame. Definitely my next mod is 155 fsa cranksz not much pedal strike but it happens, mostly going up. Do I recommend it? 10000%

 

[RustyMojo]

I run my rail mullet, I prefer the feel of the bike set this way. Just feels more nimble. I don’t ride trail centres just steep, mucky off piste UK riding. I have little legs so find the additional ‘space’ is a big game changer. The BB is low and my motor guard has taken a bashing. But I run 155 cranks so don’t get pedal strikes at all. Just the odd hand up if I miss time my technique. I am thinking of lifting my zeb 10mm to 170 to help raise the BB a touch more. But I’m pretty happy with the set up. I’m on a large Rail, if that helps and I’m 5’9 but with a 30” (if I’m lucky) inside leg.

 

[Regiobike77]

I run my rail mullet, I prefer the feel of the bike set this way. Just feels more nimble. I don’t ride trail centres just steep, mucky off piste UK riding. I have little legs so find the additional ‘space’ is a big game changer. The BB is low and my motor guard has taken a bashing. But I run 155 cranks so don’t get pedal strikes at all. Just the odd hand up if I miss time my technique. I am thinking of lifting my zeb 10mm to 170 to help raise the BB a touch more. But I’m pretty happy with the set up. I’m on a large Rail, if that helps and I’m 5’9 but with a 30” (if I’m lucky) inside leg.

Which cranks do you use, fsa, hope?

 

[RustyMojo]

Which cranks do you use, fsa, hope?

hope

 

[Paulquattro]

hope

Me too
There a bit costly but they are damn strong.

 

[Dave_B]

They are very expensive !

 

[Dave_B]

These ?

Hope E-Bike Crankset

This crank model is most suitable for Bosch gen 2/4 systems and Yamaha PW-X systems | Designed for maximum ground clearance | Self-extracting system for easy fitting and removal-

www.sprocketscycles.com

 

[Paulquattro]

These ?

Hope E-Bike Crankset

This crank model is most suitable for Bosch gen 2/4 systems and Yamaha PW-X systems | Designed for maximum ground clearance | Self-extracting system for easy fitting and removal-

www.sprocketscycles.com

Yep, i paid £125 for mine thou
The same set have served me well on 2 bikes now so i can't complain

 

[RustyMojo]

That’s them. I’m not a massive hope fan boy, but they are easy to use and tick the box

 

[Dave_B]

I presume the smaller rear wheel will mess with the top speed limiter?

 

[Paulquattro]

I presume the smaller rear wheel will mess with the top speed limiter?

I had mine adjusted when it was brand new at the dealer

 

[Dave_B]

a smaller wheel makes it limited at a slower speed?

 

[Paulquattro]

a smaller wheel makes it limited at a slower speed?

Yep
Thats why i had the dealer adjust it when it was new before i even picked it up i rolled out a 27.5 x 2.6 and emailed them the roll out measurement and it was done before i even picked the bike up

Apparently the 2022 kiox new and old you can adjust via the settings but i thought they may as well do it as they were willing to before pick up.

 

[Dave_B]

I’ll put the delimiter back on. Sorted then for both wheel sizes.

 

[BuckSaw]

I mulleted my Rail last week as an experiment. I really like how it handled, but ground clearance was a bit of an issue for me. My local trails are really technical with lots of granite, my motor guard was getting hung up constantly. I'm going to keep the 27.5" wheel that I built and swap it in for bike park days though.

 

[alexiow]

What about mullet with a 170mm fork? Anyone done that?

 

[Doomanic]

Yes.

 

[alexiow]

Yes.

Good fun all round? Mini link in high? 155 cranks job done?