Most Durable Drivetrain

[Rob Rides EMTB]

I will confirm when I can but I’m sure it’s the m4100 Deore 10 speed

 

[Sam Browning]

I will confirm when I can but I’m sure it’s the m4100 Deore 10 speed

Is that for the shifter?

Is the derailleur an M6000 maybe?

11/42 or 11/46 cassette?
Thanks Rob

 

[Gary]

Do you think shortening my current chain to the shortest possible length will

No.
Your chain length should be set at the shortest length in your largest rear sprocket with the swing arm at the point of max chain growth.
Using a smaller range cassette means the chain can be shorter.
Chain wrap (how much chain is in contact with the sprocket) is increased from running a smaller range cassette and being able to run the top jockey wheel much closer to the small sprockets (b-tension adjustment)
You have already said you don't want to run a smaller range (11-36) cassette
From the PM you sent telling me you're a "Derestricted aggressive downhill rider who gives it large on the cranks in the smallest sprockets" I suspect your premature sprocket wear may actually be down to your riding style and shifting under load. If this is the case the best way you can increase cassette life is to learn how to ease off and shift smoothly and stop shifting under load.
I'm assuming you understand the mechanics of a derailleur system including b-tension here.

 

[Sam Browning]

No.
Your chain length should be set at the shortest length in your largest rear sprocket with the swing arm at the point of max chain growth.
Using a smaller range cassette means the chain can be shorter.
Chain wrap (how much chain is in contact with the sprocket) is increased from running a smaller range cassette and being able to run the top jockey wheel much closer to the small sprockets (b-tension adjustment)
You have already said you don't want to run a smaller range (11-36) cassette
From the PM you sent telling me you're a "Derestricted aggressive downhill rider who gives it large on the cranks in the smallest sprockets" I suspect your premature sprocket wear may actually be down to your riding style and shifting under load. If this is the case the best way you can increase cassette life is to learn how to ease off and shift smoothly and stop shifting under load.
I'm assuming you understand the mechanics of a derailleur system including b-tension here.

Fully agree,

fully understand the working of a mech and b tension so that all makes complete sense.

the sram NX 12 speed derailleur is a complete waste of time, after 200 miles the indexing is hugely vague and canT select top gear With limits set perfectly.

would you recommend the M6000 derailleur?

for the 11-42/46 Shimano cassettes would I need anything extra secure it to my current free hub (spacers etc) used with my 12 speed NX cassete. It’s a DT Swiss H370 E-MTB Rear hub.
Really appreciate your help

 

[Gary]

Your Freehub will take any 8,9,10 or 11speed HG cassette. Only an old 7 speed cassette would need a spacer.
Whatever mech you choose to buy. Also buy the corresponding speed shifter from the same manufacturer. And a corresponding sped chain. But this doesn't have to be from the same manufacturer. Infact I always use sram chains on Shimano cassettes.

 

[Gary]

Yrs M6000 is decent. (higher quality than your NX by a fair bit)

 

[Sam Browning]

Your Freehub will take any 8,9,10 or 11speed HG cassette. Only an old 7 speed cassette would need a spacer.
Whatever mech you choose to buy. Also buy the corresponding speed shifter from the same manufacturer. And a corresponding sped chain. But this doesn't have to be from the same manufacturer. Infact I always use sram chains on Shimano cassettes.

I can see a few options of 10spd 11-42 cassetes.

is m4100 the one I want?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Shimano DEORE SL-M4100 I-Spec EV 10-speed Shift Lever right	20084181	1	22,35	22,35
Shimano Deore 10-speed Chain CN-HG54 116 Links	10005365	1	13,96	13,96

Shimano M4100 11-46 cassette
SHIMANO DEORE - Rear Derailleur RD-M5120-SGS

Thats what I am using

 

[Sam Browning]

Shimano DEORE SL-M4100 I-Spec EV 10-speed Shift Lever right	20084181	1	22,35	22,35
Shimano Deore 10-speed Chain CN-HG54 116 Links	10005365	1	13,96	13,96

Shimano M4100 11-46 cassette
SHIMANO DEORE - Rear Derailleur RD-M5120-SGS

Thats what I am using

The M5120 derailleur looks the same as the M4120.
do you know the difference? I can see that possibly the M4120 only works up to 42T.
Can you advise why you chose that derailleur as I’m struggling to find it anywhere.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

The M5120 derailleur looks the same as the M4120.
do you know the difference? I can see that possibly the M4120 only works up to 42T.
Can you advise why you chose that derailleur as I’m struggling to find it anywhere.

These new cassettes come with two new rear derailleur options: the M5120 (which has a clutch) is designed for use with 42-46T cassettes, while the M4120 (no clutch) has a maximum cog limit of 42T.

 

[Sam Browning]

These new cassettes come with two new rear derailleur options: the M5120 (which has a clutch) is designed for use with 42-46T cassettes, while the M4120 (no clutch) has a maximum cog limit of 42T.

Can I ask why you didn’t go for the M6000?

 

[Gary]

I can see a few options of 10spd 11-42 cassetes.

is m4100 the one I want?

M6000 11-42 largest sprocket is made from aluminium
I wouldn't even considering a cassette with an aluminium sprocket if greater longevity is your main reason for changing

 

[Sam Browning]

M6000 11-42 largest sprocket is made from aluminium
I wouldn't even considering a cassette with an aluminium sprocket if greater longevity is your main reason for changing

I’m referring to the m6000 derailleur sorry.

I can’t find a m5120 for sale.

what are the differences and compatibility.

 

[Sam Browning]

M6000 11-42 largest sprocket is made from aluminium
I wouldn't even considering a cassette with an aluminium sprocket if greater longevity is your main reason for changing

Morning Gary,

can you see the attached pictures regarding the M6000 rear derailleur. Can you advise what the highlighted parts translate to.

 

[Gary]

Surely that's self explanatory?

 

[Gary]

If you can't work it out, You need the GS medium cage version for a 42t cassette sprocket.
Chainring size difference is irrelevant as you only have one chainring.
Capacity is just how much slack the mech can take up. Ie 11-42 =31t

 

[Sam Browning]

If you can't work it out, You need the GS medium cage version for a 42t cassette sprocket.
Chainring size difference is irrelevant as you only have one chainring.
Capacity is just how much slack the mech can take up. Ie 11-42 =31t

Much appreciated. I had presumed but wanted to confirm.
Can you confirm if the below shifter are able to be mounted to a sram matchmaker?

 

[Sam Browning]

If you can't work it out, You need the GS medium cage version for a 42t cassette sprocket.
Chainring size difference is irrelevant as you only have one chainring.
Capacity is just how much slack the mech can take up. Ie 11-42 =31t

Is the below chain ring compatible with a 10 speed chain?

 

[Gary]

FFS MATE. You owe me a night out not just a beer.

Yes both are compatible

Now pleases stop quoting me for a bit

 

[Gary]

Fuuuuuuuu *cough*!

Please. Someone make it stop

 

[DrStupid]

Is this an issue?
So little time will be spent on the 42, longevity of that aluminium ring I suspect is not going to be an issue relative to the rest of the cassette.

Depends on riding type.

I spend plenty of time, grinding it out, in first and second gear, and only a few relatively easy-peddling seconds in the longest gears.

The cassettes wear out in the middle oddly enough?

For me, the big steel sprocket is preferred for its strength, not neccessary its wear resistance.Though, resistance is excellent, due partly to the shear number of gears to apply wear across.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

So this is probably going to be the last hurrah for my ex1 drivetrain that came with thisn2018 commencal. 2608 miles on the odometer. Second $310 ex1 cassette began skipping on the small cogs. Chain measures at 75%. New three small cogs, new ex1 made in Portugal chain,new sram jockey wheels for ex1 new race face front chain ring..if I can get another 1000 or more miles then maybe I would spring for yet a third crazy prices cassette..maybe.

1300 miles per drivetrain so far. I reexamined the original cassette and one tooth ripped off the smallest cognon the five cog cluster. The ex1 ramps are kinda interesting to examine. Very unique design. No idea how long they would work in european mud seeing most of the northern latitude precipitation seems to skip western USA and instead drop in say Gary's hood. So 1300 miles here could actually be 400 miles there. I might next grab a 10 speed steel cassette as described above and a 10nspeed shifter and see if the ex1 derailleur is compatible. My shop ( they didn't do any of the pictures repairs or sell me the parts btw , I ordered them from bikeinn) , thinks ex1 is standalone and non interchangable.

 

[Cyclopath1000]

@Gary and @ everyone .. so I decided to prepare for the ex1 less future. Here's what I've assembled:
M8000 sgs long cage derailleur. Clutch adjusted correctly.
2. Dyna sys 11 rdm8000 new jockey wheels $24
3. Deore cs m4100 11-46 10 speed cassette new $50
4. Deore 10 speed shifter slm6000-r $28
5. 11 speed can hg 70-11 chain ( already owned 2 of these new in box.

So I've invested about $100 in this drive train but will wait for my ex1 to fully wear out before using this stuff.

Opinions???

 

[Cyclopath1000]

This stuff

 

[Gary]

Why are you choosing to use an 11spd chain with a 10speed drivetrain?
It will work. But a 10speed chain is better suited.
A SRAM 1030 at around a tenner would be my choice.

 

[Sam Browning]

@Gary and @ everyone .. so I decided to prepare for the ex1 less future. Here's what I've assembled:
M8000 sgs long cage derailleur. Clutch adjusted correctly.
2. Dyna sys 11 rdm8000 new jockey wheels $24
3. Deore cs m4100 11-46 10 speed cassette new $50
4. Deore 10 speed shifter slm6000-r $28
5. 11 speed can hg 70-11 chain ( already owned 2 of these new in box.

So I've invested about $100 in this drive train but will wait for my ex1 to fully wear out before using this stuff.

Opinions???

You want the medium cage

Why are you choosing to use an 11spd chain with a 10speed drivetrain?
It will work. But a 10speed chain is better suited.
A SRAM 1030 at around a tenner would be my choice.

Agreed, more robust.

 

[Kernow]

Do you still have the ex1?

Are you after ex1 Sam

 

[Gary]

more robust.

That's not the reason it's better suited.
11 speed chains are 0.2mm narrower and will cause slighty less efficient shifting when used with a 10 speed cassette

 

[Sam Browning]

That's not the reason it's better suited.
11 speed chains are 0.2mm narrower and will cause slighty less efficient shifting when used with a 10 speed cassette

Do 10 speed chains not also have thicker side plates between links?

 

[Gary]

Yeah.