Mk3 controller!

[Lee67]

First proper ride today on new mk3 controller, everything same as before only riding in eco as im fit anyway... 41 miles and got home with 44% battery left ( off road route)... now ive always got decent range out of both my giants but for a full suspension emtb thats sone range!! Surely it cant be controller related?????

 

[Silato]

First proper ride today on new mk3 controller, everything same as before only riding in eco as im fit anyway... 41 miles and got home with 44% battery left ( off road route)... now ive always got decent range out of both my giants but for a full suspension emtb thats sone range!! Surely it cant be controller related?????

Changed my eco to 75% from 100% has great range. Also adjusted the standard level down by 25%. Hoping to get mine back Saturday with the mk3 fitted.

 

[Wernher]

When you install the new controller all you motor tuning settings return to default. It is interesting because I normally ride mine at 50% in eco and 150% in the second mode with the rest on default. When you pedal beyond the support level (cadence 110 in the two lowest modes and 120 in the rest) you are reducing the level of support of your motor. Also with higher support if you pedal lighter, your support will not be maximum, but only as much as you actually need. Now I can't say that is the case with yours but it may work out like that when you run higher support, you may find that you get to the point where you go beyond support quicker and inadvertently actually use less power than when you ride with lower support. It is something to experiment with ?

 

[Fast Willy]

What does this new controller look like & where can you buy it. Is it a direct plug in.

 

[Wernher]

What does this new controller look like & where can you buy it. Is it a direct plug in.

It looks exactly the same as the older controller. It's only the sealing on the outside that seems to be improved and when your old one is replaced you will automatically get the new one. I believe the old controller gets updated at your dealer if their is new functionality as it is part of the software upgrades that they roll out. Perhaps a dealer can jump in here if we have somebody at a dealership or at Giant following this thread. Otherwise I will get the exact details when I visit the dealership again and post a more complete and verified answer here.

 

[Wernher]

@Fast Willy I have sent through a request to my dealer to give me a full answer to this and also to ask them for complete instructions for pairing with external devices as I have successfully paired with my Lezyne but can't calibrate or set the crank length and also get extremely optimistic speed readings. (speed approximately double what it should be and changing the wheel size doesn't seem to fix it). I will post the response when I get an answer.

At the moment I have found the following:

1. You can pair the cadence sensor on its own. This will give you cadence on your paired device and also the battery state of charge, which is more precise than looking at the five lights and removes the need to get out your phone whilst out riding to get a precise battery reading.
2. If you pair the power sensor, you must make sure you haven't paired with the cadence sensor, as it is essentially the same Bluetooth device and when pairing with the power sensor, it includes cadence, power and speed, which should override your device's GPS speed reading. Unfortunately, at this stage the speed is hugely optimistic and I don't believe the accuracy of the power reading as I am unable to calibrate or set the crank length.

Incidentally, I am going a bit off topic here, but the app doesn't allow you to change the crank length as far as I know, which means if you fit shorter crank it will affect your power readings, assuming you are using the app to record your rides.

 

[Silato]

@Fast Willy I have sent through a request to my dealer to give me a full answer to this and also to ask them for complete instructions for pairing with external devices as I have successfully paired with my Lezyne but can't calibrate or set the crank length and also get extremely optimistic speed readings. (speed approximately double what it should be and changing the wheel size doesn't seem to fix it). I will post the response when I get an answer.

At the moment I have found the following:

1. You can pair the cadence sensor on its own. This will give you cadence on your paired device and also the battery state of charge, which is more precise than looking at the five lights and removes the need to get out your phone whilst out riding to get a precise battery reading.
2. If you pair the power sensor, you must make sure you haven't paired with the cadence sensor, as it is essentially the same Bluetooth device and when pairing with the power sensor, it includes cadence, power and speed, which should override your device's GPS speed reading. Unfortunately, at this stage the speed is hugely optimistic and I don't believe the accuracy of the power reading as I am unable to calibrate or set the crank length.

Incidentally, I am going a bit off topic here, but the app doesn't allow you to change the crank length as far as I know, which means if you fit shorter crank it will affect your power readings, assuming you are using the app to record your rides.

I tried to connect my garmin forerunner via Bluetooth and sensor detect but no joy unfortunately. Hopefully giant will support devices better in future updates.

 

[Wernher]

Try with your bike switched off, then after starting your search for the sensor switch your bike on. Do it only on cadence for now and see if it works.

 

[Silato]

Try with your bike switched off, then after starting your search for the sensor switch your bike on. Do it only on cadence for now and see if it works.

Just says pedal to activate sensor but doesn't find anything.

 

[Wernher]

Just says pedal to activate sensor but doesn't find anything.

I turned my pedal backwards and stopped it with the pedal on the chain side in the top vertical position. Don't know if that is why it initially picked it up. Also the first time, I switched the bike off and then on while my Lezyne was searching for the sensor. Once it picked it up the first time it was plain sailing. I am awaiting the proper feedback from Giant, as there is no instructions available anywhere to do this and perhaps they never intended to do it like this. Now that it can be done however, hopefully they will provide proper pairing instructions. Here in South Africa they are very helpful and our support is absolutely excellent. If I get a response, I'll post it here. Positive or negative ?

 

[Silato]

I turned my pedal backwards and stopped it with the pedal on the chain side in the top vertical position. Don't know if that is why it initially picked it up. Also the first time, I switched the bike off and then on while my Lezyne was searching for the sensor. Once it picked it up the first time it was plain sailing. I am awaiting the proper feedback from Giant, as there is no instructions available anywhere to do this and perhaps they never intended to do it like this. Now that it can be done however, hopefully they will provide proper pairing instructions. Here in South Africa they are very helpful and our support is absolutely excellent. If I get a response, I'll post it here. Positive or negative ?

I emailed them too tonight, I'll let you if I get a reply.

 

[Silato]

Got a reply from giant although I think they are referring to actual sensors and not a unit that detects the bike?
Good morning Paul,



Thank you for your recent enquiry.



Any speed/cadence devices (ie. Garmin, Wahoo) should work without issue on your bike.



Kind regards,

Marcus
Giant UK

 

[Wernher]

Got a reply from giant although I think they are referring to actual sensors and not a unit that detects the bike?
Good morning Paul,



Thank you for your recent enquiry.



Any speed/cadence devices (ie. Garmin, Wahoo) should work without issue on your bike.



Kind regards,

Marcus
Giant UK

 

[Wernher]

Not sure how you phrased your request to them, but I get the clear impression that they are not talking the same language as us. They seem to refer to add-on sensors, rather than those built into the bike. I also have a very good idea that they are not aware that the sensors that we are picking up are functional, at least the person that you got hold of.

The response from my guys are also very tardy, which seems to indicate that they are scratching their heads. I'll follow up tomorrow.

 

[Wernher]

@Silato I received a translated response from Taiwan, included below:

"Hi Werner

Below is the response from factory in Taiwan. Difficult due to language barrier to fully interpret. Also two day turnaround due to time differences. Tried to interpret and add in....

There is no computer pairing function on old version of Ride Control 1 since ANT+ is available from 2020 model Ride Controls controls. Old one cannot be upgrade to ANT+ function compatible, if consumer has requirement, please order SKU: 245-FLED28-04, this is the one we improve the waterproof and ANT+ function.

For the pairing question you can check the manual of the computer, we might not able to attach all of computer pairing method on our power pro manual but computer its own manual. Please see page.36 which including Leyne pairing, zeroset, crank length setup.

Speed reading is no related to power pro, it considers with computer itself or speed sensor.

You can also check with Ridelink app to do calibration and read the output of power value.

Link to ride app:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=tw.giant.ridelink&hl=en_ZA





--
Kind regards
Andrew Briggs CA(SA)
Cyclo Pro"

My take on this is that they don't really get the question and the answer reflects that.

Firstly the speed sensor as well as cadence is included in the package when you connect with the power meter. This means that after pairing with the power meter, your GPS computer picks up the bike's speed sensor and as a result requires the wheel size to correctly calculate the speed as it no longer relies on the GPS to report speed.

If I ignore that and say that I can possibly find a way to address the speed sensor, I am still battling with the issue that the calibration fails and also that the crank length setting fails. Assuming that the crank doesn't require calibration because it measures it with sensors, one can then reason that the power reading might be sort of accurate until you fit a shorter crank, which is something that a lot of people will consider due to the low bottom bracket on the bike. Then the power measurement cannot be accurate anymore as the distance of the pedal to the centre of the crank will become shorter and will alter the measurement.

Cadence is fine and is easily sorted out as a rotation is a rotation regardless of crank length.

If you decide not to pair your bike with an external device, none of this is an issue except the crank length as it is not possible to set the crank length in the Ride Control App.

A more interesting piece of information, is the mention of a new controller from 2020, which addresses waterproofing and ANT+ connectivity. My dealer told me that I have the latest controller, but I tried connecting with ANT+ and couldn't. My controller only supports Bluetooth.

On your issue of connecting with your Garmin: Perhaps you don't have the latest controller, or even the same version as mine as I previously couldn't connect either.

I am happy to connect to my cadence sensor only as it provides my with the battery state of charge on my GPS device and coincidentally provides me with the cadence, which is more of academic interest to me than a real requirement, as it makes me understand how my bike's software uses the combination of cadence and power input to provide pedal assistance.

From here on my tinkering with this is purely out of that need to drive my technological interest.

In the end none of this is really important as the bike functions well and does all it needs to do.

If you are going to pursue this further, I will always be interested to hear about any progress and/or advances in this area.

Regards and enjoy your bike ?