Minimizing pedal strikes?

[Rickster]

Since pedal and crank strikes are the eventual death of all ebike motors I wonder if changing out the pedals to composite or even clips along with shorter carbon fibre cranks would help ? My reasoning is that a direct pedal or crank hit on rocks directly transfers the force of the impact to the crankshaft and bearings eventually killing the motor. If the impact could be somehow absorbed or softened it may help ? Maybe ?

 

[IndigoUnicorn]

How often are you having pedal strikes?!

 

[Semmelrocc]

Set your flip chip on high, if applicable.

 

[Morton027]

I had 2 strikes riding Cannock Chase yesterday (rock gardens), I’ll be watching this thread with interest.

 

[Mikerb]

Avoiding pedal strikes is about observation and rider technique rather than kit. Low BB heights put the weight of an EMTB lower down with resultant improvement in handling but it does mean being aware of circumstances where pedal strikes can occur and rotating the cranks accordingly, using half crank turns if necessary on ascents for example and keeping the inside crank high on turns.
That said there are a couple of things you can check.
1. Are you running maximum SAG on the shock
2. If the bike has a flip chip, does the bike need to be in the low position for the type of trail you are riding.

Plastic pedals will make little or no difference in the event of a pedals strike. Pedal width as well as pedal axle design can however increase Q factor which can result in strikes on the pedal edges....... and that can be kept to minimum with the right pedal selection.
Slightly shorter cranks will only give you an extra few mm...not worth the cost or bother.

I ride a Whyte E180 RS with BB height 335 and pretty plush Fox Float X2 with 170mm travel.............it teaches you how to avoid pedal strikes!!

 

[Rickster]

It only takes one bad one , over time it does it’s deed. In the mts here it’s mostly rock n more rock. It doesn’t seem to matter what brand of bike it’s happening here too often.
I’m thinking less surface area on the clip and maybe more shoe strikes which would perhaps soften the impact ? I have never ridden with clips so I don’t know if practically it’s true. Plus a shorter carbon crank with the rubber ends might be a bonus as well. I would think the carbon would absorb more then a alloy crank.

 

[Gary]

Ever considered looking where you're going, paying attention to your foot position and not pedalling into things?

 

[DaveW2]

Before I got an e-bike I was not overly concerned about pedal strikes. I have been riding MTBs for 40 years, and I know how to avoid pedal strikes, but mistakes happen. My pedals show the damage, but XT Trail pedals can take a beating. But with an e-bike I'm worried about damaging the motor.
I will be changing from 170 mm to 160 mm cranks. As the attached photo (not mine) shows, with the suspension compressed, that 10 mm will make a big difference.

 

[Rickster]

Ever considered looking where you're going, paying attention to your foot position and not pedalling into things?

Thanks Gary but I am a Very well seasoned rider of all types of bikes motorized and otherwise. DaveW2 summed it up perfectly.

 

[Gary]

Thanks. But what exactly did he sum up?

Forgive me if I've missed something glaringly obvious but all I see is a guy who's been riding for 40 years but still doesn't seem to understand that you shouldn't have your crank down when the bike's suspension is likely to be compressed deep into the travel blaming crank length for HIS OWN mistakes.

Looking where you're going, reading the terrain ahead and positioning your feet appropriately is infinitely better than hoping 10mm shorter cranks will save your poor riding technique.

 

[Rickster]

Haha Gary you kill me not only do I not know how to ride but neither does DaveW2… Anyone else ?

 

[Gary]

Well you've both evidenced quite clearly that you struggle with the technique to minimising pedal strikes when riding. Telling me you're "seasoned" or have been riding random bikes for X number of years qualifies nothing here.
You are in charge of controlling your pedals and deciding where they happen to be at any given time while riding.

Anyone else ?

Yes. it's incredibly common.
There are tons of threads on here like yours. and yes. shorter cranks or slimmer pedals will obviously give you more clearance. That's not exactly rocket science. But it's not a solution that's going to do anything to address issues with your foot positioning technique or pedal stroke timing. infact. increasing clearance will do quite the opposite.

 

[DaveW2]

I'm guessing Gary never slides out on corners, never lands jumps front wheel first, never catches a handlebar on a tree, never strikes a rock with a pedal, never goes over the bars, ....
But does Gary have any fun?

 

[DaveW2]

Gary, if I had to pay you $100 every time I hit a pedal I would never strike a pedal. But I choose to live closer to the edge, and take some risks in the interest of fun riding, like pedaling through a corner to gain speed for a steep climb, or struggling to get over rock or log on an uphill.

 

[Gary]

Landing front wheel first is generally the correct technique for down slope landings and the steeper the landing the more true this becomes. The more you type. The more it seems you've been carrying a fair few bad habbits/techniques over that 40 years of riding.

and pedalling through many corners can be fine.
IF you can time your pedal strokes AND weight and lean the bike in order to control pedal clearance sufficiently not to ground out or strike the pedal.
Yes. it's trial and error obviously. but eventually with practice you become far more tuned into how much clearance a bike has, reading the trail and it's obsticles and when, where and to what degree you can successfully drop a pedal or take a pedal stroke or ratchet the cranks without striking your foot/pedal.

Gary, if I had to pay you $100 every time I hit a pedal I would never strike a pedal.

Oh. I guarantee you still would. Old habbits n all that... But I don't want your money.

but I'm not interested in a pissing competition about how good a rider each of us are. I'm simply talking about improving on what skills you have to relieve the issue.

 

[Rod B.]

Since pedal and crank strikes are the eventual death of all ebike motors I wonder if changing out the pedals to composite or even clips along with shorter carbon fibre cranks would help ? My reasoning is that a direct pedal or crank hit on rocks directly transfers the force of the impact to the crankshaft and bearings eventually killing the motor. If the impact could be somehow absorbed or softened it may help ? Maybe ?

Rickster,
Unless you are consistently pedal striking and on a continual daily basis, your motor will be fine. I've put 1,800 miles on my eBike since September and I've hit the pedals "Very" hard on occasion, I don't know maybe 30-40 times...Like death and taxes, it's going to occasionally happen when you mistime a section or get thrown off line with your pedaling effort. Don't let anybody tell you they don't pedal strike, nobody's perfect, well maybe Gary is. You're good brother, don't let anybody say different.

There are ways to mitigate pedal strikes which eBikes are especially good at. Mikerb makes an excellent point about looking ahead and planning your pedal strokes/line through a tech section. Like Mike, I also use a fast and rapid half stroking of the pedals technique when negotiating a rock section. I have my bike (Orbea Rise) set up so my power comes on immediately when in Trail or Boost. That way, when negotiating a rock section, I can rapidly half stroke/pump the pedals and get brief spurts of full power without having to fully rotate my pedals 360 degrees and thus striking.

I also mitigated pedals strikes in other ways, such as increasing my fork travel from 150mm to 160mm, shortening my crank arms from 170mm to 165mm and riding on a pair of thin Canfield Crampon pedals.

Ultimately, I say ride your bike like you stole it and have fun with your boys. Don't sweat the small stuff, if the motor breaks, fix it and go ride some more.

There's a 1 1/2 miles of solid rock garden on Fook Yu...Occasionally I pedal strike.

The idea is to not pedal strike when getting up a series of technical step ups. Planning your line and being cognizant of not taking full rotational pedal strokes helps. I occasionally pedal strike when going up here.

Here's a close up of the section

Occasionally I've been known to be simply enjoying the view and not paying attention to the trail...and like a dumbass, I pedal strike. It's all good...

.

 

[Binhill1]

Rickster,
Unless you are consistently pedal striking and on a continual daily basis, your motor will be fine. I've put 1,800 miles on my eBike since September and I've hit the pedals "Very" hard on occasion, I don't know maybe 30-40 times...Like death and taxes, it's going to occasionally happen when you mistime a section or get thrown off line with your pedaling effort. Don't let anybody tell you they don't pedal strike, nobody's perfect, well maybe Gary is. You're good brother, don't let anybody say different.

There are ways to mitigate pedal strikes which eBikes are especially good at. Mikerb makes an excellent point about looking ahead and planning your pedal strokes/line through a tech section. Like Mike, I also use a fast and rapid half stroking of the pedals technique when negotiating a rock section. I have my bike (Orbea Rise) set up so my power comes on immediately when in Trail or Boost. That way, when negotiating a rock section, I can rapidly half stroke/pump the pedals and get brief spurts of full power without having to fully rotate my pedals 360 degrees and thus striking.

I also mitigated pedals strikes in other ways, such as increasing my fork travel from 150mm to 160mm, shortening my crank arms from 170mm to 165mm and riding on a pair of thin Canfield Crampon pedals.

Ultimately, I say ride your bike like you stole it and have fun with your boys. Don't sweat the small stuff, if the motor breaks, fix it and go ride some more.

There's a 1 1/2 miles of solid rock garden on Fook Yu...Occasionally I pedal strike.
View attachment 86646
The idea is to not pedal strike when getting up a series of technical step ups. Planning your line and being cognizant of not taking full rotational pedal strokes helps. I occasionally pedal strike when going up here.
View attachment 86649
Here's a close up of the section
View attachment 86650

Occasionally I've been known to be simply enjoying the view and not paying attention to the trail...and like a dumbass, I pedal strike. It's all good...
View attachment 86651

View attachment 86652


.

Do well to get up there without a few strikes well me anyway. I love that kind of stuff.

 

[Cb750stu]

I'm not keen on carbon cranks because the threaded part for the pedals is just a insert pressed/moulded into the crank , I had a mishap a few rides ago hitting a big rock with my NDS crank(see pic below ), the pedal axle isn't bent it's the insert has moved

 

[Binhill1]

I'm not keen on carbon cranks because the threaded part for the pedals is just a insert pressed/moulded into the crank , I had a mishap a few rides ago hitting a big rock with my NDS crank(see pic below ), the pedal axle isn't bent it's the insert has moved

View attachment 86655

Yes I had Sram XX1 crankset when it first came out and it loosened. Unrepairable I was told

 

[Doomanic]

Ever considered looking where you're going, paying attention to your foot position and not pedalling into things?

Like all eBikers, I haven't spent the GDP of a developing nation (like Scotland) on a technological marvel to have to watch where I'm going...

 

[1oldfart]

I am almost an expert on the subject.
OK i do not have a car so i ride close to home.
Mostly they are dogs trails. They are name after dogs and i see lots
of dogs but few riders. Bad rocks are plenty, not the nice rock gardens to play.
A- short cranks, i went from 175 to 165 it was great. Last few months 160 it is heaven.
B- i up the tires for more clearance.
From 2.4 i go to 2.6, 2.8 and 3.0 if they fit.
Each small gain is welcome and adding them makes a difference.
I do not think avoiding metal will help you.
I do it because we get minus 30 and it limits cold tranfer.
I have very long legs we do not need 175 those are for road.

 

[Rod B.]

Do well to get up there without a few strikes well me anyway. I love that kind of stuff.

It's usually a 50/50 situation on making a section, some days are diamonds and some days are stones. There are days when I feel like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest and can't do nothing right. Hell, sometimes I just get lucky. It feels good at 62 being above ground and being able to try, it feels really good making a section and like you, I absolutely love the nasty stuff. Never buy a couch.

 

[Mikerb]

One element has not been mentioned a lot and that is the suspension, most especially the shock. Being aware when you are compressing the back of the bike and therefore reducing pedal clearance quite a bit can help avoid pedal strikes.....probably more especially on tech climbs where you have the opportunity to unweight the rear provided that does not lead to loss of grip. Personally I reckon the best way to set shock sag is when in the "ready" position on the bike. That means if you are seated or weighting the rear more, SAG will be greater. So whilst changing cranks can give you 5 or 10mm more clearance, a momentary weight shift forward can achieve the same.....free of charge!!

 

[thewrx]

Before I got an e-bike I was not overly concerned about pedal strikes. I have been riding MTBs for 40 years, and I know how to avoid pedal strikes, but mistakes happen. My pedals show the damage, but XT Trail pedals can take a beating. But with an e-bike I'm worried about damaging the motor.
I will be changing from 170 mm to 160 mm cranks. As the attached photo (not mine) shows, with the suspension compressed, that 10 mm will make a big difference.

View attachment 86612

If your suspension is that compressed your cranks should be parallel to the ground, not perpendicular imo. Also, I agree with the post above pedal strikes and bash guards almost never happen with me, can't even recall last time; its just about being aware of your position, and being able to pedal forward without having to always make an entire circle (45*, 90*, 180* cranking, or even less)

 

[Rod B.]

I'm not keen on carbon cranks because the threaded part for the pedals is just a insert pressed/moulded into the crank , I had a mishap a few rides ago hitting a big rock with my NDS crank(see pic below ), the pedal axle isn't bent it's the insert has moved

View attachment 86655

Something is uniquely odd about that picture....New fad, right angle pedals..?

 

[RustyIron]

I hesitate to chime in... mainly because I'm not even in the same league as the pros who ride on unblemished pedals. But as someone whose pedals always look like they were found in the middle of Mariupol Boulevard after being run over by a column of Russian T-14 tanks, I have a few questions.

Everyone seems stressed out about the minimum ground clearance of their crank arms. When the crank is at the six o'clock position and you strike something, forward momentum moves the pedal backward, minimizing the impact. Sometimes when hopping up rocks, the pedal strikes during the downstroke, but it's almost like a foot-dab, lifting the back of the bike and propelling the bike forward. What's the downside?

Is it not a greater concern when you're shredding as fast as you can, threading your way through a narrow rock garden, and you misjudge your clearance? Your pedal that is pointing straight forward slams dead-nuts into a giant boulder, your shoulders feel like their being ripped from the sockets, your brain slams into the inside of your cranium, and your bike bounces 90 degrees sideways as you try to maintain control for whatever obstacles are rushing up next. Somehow those fancy carbon cranks always seem to remain intact. The pedal axles are still true. There is an aesthetic toll, but mechanically, everything is sound.

I've never ruined a crank arm, and although I've been through a LOT of pedals, I don't recall ever breaking one. So if all these parts can be ridden as hard as I want, sometimes for the life of the bike, then why all the fuss?

 

[1oldfart]

I understand your point. But if unlucky a strike might = a fall
a fall might = boken bike and or broken rider. At 64YO i try to ride safe
to ride every day. I do not mind racheting on the flat but racheting
going uphill is not much fun for me.

 

[Rickster]

I hesitate to chime in... mainly because I'm not even in the same league as the pros who ride on unblemished pedals. But as someone whose pedals always look like they were found in the middle of Mariupol Boulevard after being run over by a column of Russian T-14 tanks, I have a few questions.

Everyone seems stressed out about the minimum ground clearance of their crank arms. When the crank is at the six o'clock position and you strike something, forward momentum moves the pedal backward, minimizing the impact. Sometimes when hopping up rocks, the pedal strikes during the downstroke, but it's almost like a foot-dab, lifting the back of the bike and propelling the bike forward. What's the downside?

Is it not a greater concern when you're shredding as fast as you can, threading your way through a narrow rock garden, and you misjudge your clearance? Your pedal that is pointing straight forward slams dead-nuts into a giant boulder, your shoulders feel like their being ripped from the sockets, your brain slams into the inside of your cranium, and your bike bounces 90 degrees sideways as you try to maintain control for whatever obstacles are rushing up next. Somehow those fancy carbon cranks always seem to remain intact. The pedal axles are still true. There is an aesthetic toll, but mechanically, everything is sound.

I've never ruined a crank arm, and although I've been through a LOT of pedals, I don't recall ever breaking one. So if all these parts can be ridden as hard as I want, sometimes for the life of the bike, then why all the fuss?

Haha I love your word pics ! On reg manual mt. bikes it’s not an issue at all. Throw pretty much anything at them , mud , rocks, water, floods, rock walls, canyons, bad technique you name it ! These bikes are pretty near bulletproof !! But add a battery and an electric motor and it’s a whole nuther story. The only thing I worry about on manual bikes is should I go there and die ! On ebikes it’s now more like should I go there or will my bike die ! I’m more concerned about the bike getting me back then my ability to ride through the swamp without putting my foot down into the abyss where the gators roam !

 

[B1rdie]

I do not think that pedal strokes may harm a motor or any part of an ebike more than they would harm a normal bike.
Hard landings, even the succesful ones, are provoking the loads that surpass the design limits of most ebike motors cranks spindles amd bearings.
When you hit the pedals the impacts are distributing maily to your body, thats what bothers so much, otherwise we would simply beat it to death like we do with other bikeparts in general.

 

[Swiss Roll]

Like all eBikers, I haven't spent the GDP of a developing nation (like Scotland) on a technological marvel to have to watch where I'm going...

Come now, the Scotchman speaks the truth, who can argue with A) looking where you are going, and B) having a plan for at least the next 10secs.
But I get it, sometimes instinct kicks in.
I am somewhat new to big travel fs, so I am constantly surprised how low my BB is. I have to unlearn keeping the outside crank fully down. Now I stay pretty level, heels down, unless I am sure I won't strike, even then I still screw it up.
Is there any evidence that pedal strikes knacker the motor? Any more than running into, say, a swiss quality light post? Asking for a friend...