MicroShift Drive Trains on EMTBs?

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Yes. Obviously it's off now but the area where there's no rivet if I go around with my finger behind the 18t that was the issue there's two or three teeth where there's just the tiniest bit of movement.

The bike is a ex-demo that came with 20km on and ive had it just over a week. It was bought from a guy who sells ex demo Konas (he checks out as being pretty high up) and I'm down as original owner. Hence any warranty will likely be me direct with manufacturer, though I have contacted him for advice.

It doesn't hurt to reach out to Microshift support and explain the issue, they may send you a replacement cassette.

 

[Perryqhill]

It doesn't hurt to reach out to Microshift support and explain the issue, they may send you a replacement cassette.

Yeah. At the end of the day its a consumable part and I expect wear, not too bothered about changing it as I much prefer Shimano, but less than 100miles it taking the p*ss a bit. I was being harsh on myself in the earlier posts, I don't expect much but I'll give it a go.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Yeah. At the end of the day its a consumable part and I expect wear, not too bothered about changing it as I much prefer Shimano, but less than 100miles it taking the p*ss a bit. I was being harsh on myself in the earlier posts, I don't expect much but I'll give it a go.

Yea, 100 miles on a cassette and then fails sounds like a defective part to me. I replace my chain every 1200 miles and the cassette (Microshift Advent 11-42T) at 2400 miles, which seems to be the normal wear on my eMTB.

 

[Perryqhill]

Yea, 100 miles on a cassette and then fails sounds like a defective part to me. I replace my chain every 1200 miles and the cassette (Microshift Advent 11-42T) at 2400 miles, which seems to be the normal wear on my eMTB.

Hindsight now I'm not sure the 'damage' to the cog is actually that significant. Probably just caused by it slipping due to the flex with the missing rivet - whether its been weak or missing in the first place- who knows!

That's not bad going at all. I've just had to change a Sram SX cassette (to a GX) on a 12 speed MTB at 1200 miles (on its 2nd chain). I could have kept on running it I suppose as it wasn't slipping, but I went to change the chain and the new chain skipped as I'd left the old one a bit too long. It had two years of abuse so I wasn't fussed.

 

[steve_sordy]

Apart from some slight burring, all those teeth look fine to me. That cassette is not badly worn, so it must be something else!

 

[Perryqhill]

Apart from some slight burring, all those teeth look fine to me. That cassette is not badly worn, so it must be something else!

There's a rivet missing as you suggested. Theres only two which you can see in the photo and there should he a third. When I put my finger behind the 2nd smallest cog in the photo (which would be the 4th when built up) there's a small amount of movement, which must have caused the the slip and hence the little bit of damage. There's a new cassette on it now and it's fine.

 

[steve_sordy]

There's a rivet missing as you suggested. Theres only two which you can see in the photo and there should he a third. When I put my finger behind the 2nd smallest cog in the photo (which would be the 4th when built up) there's a small amount of movement, which must have caused the the slip and hence the little bit of damage. There's a new cassette on it now and it's fine.

Warranty claim then. Ignore the fact that you have filed off some burrs, it is irrelevant to your claim, the rivet was missing before and is still missing.

 

[Perryqhill]

Warranty claim then. Ignore the fact that you have filed off some burrs, it is irrelevant to your claim, the rivet was missing before and is still missing.

I've logged it with Microshift. Just waiting to hear back.

 

[Perryqhill]

Microshift have approved and are sending me a new cassette out. I've been dealing with their warranty manager in the UK and he sent this though:

Our cassettes only come with 2 rivets. They are there to hold the larger cluster together in the packaging and make installation easier. They are not structural. Once the lock ring is torqued to 40Nm everything should be good to go.

If that's the case then I'm not exactly sure what has caused the issue but the missing rivet seemed to explain it (and the damage and hence the slip are mainly on the area around the missing rivet)- torque of 40nm is mentioned a couple of times, but it was one of the first things checked.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Microshift have approved and are sending me a new cassette out. I've been dealing with their warranty manager in the UK and he sent this though:


If that's the case then I'm not exactly sure what has caused the issue but the missing rivet seemed to explain it (and the damage and hence the slip are mainly on the area around the missing rivet)- torque of 40nm is mentioned a couple of times, but it was one of the first things checked.

Great to hear that Microshift tech support is sending you a replacement cassette. I did take a look at my Microshift cassettes the 11-38T has 2 rivets and 11-42T had 3 rivets. So I am guessing that the 11-42T and 11-46T have 3 rivets, where the 11-38T has only 2 rivets.

 

[skinnyboy]

As the warranty manager suggested it's unlikely rivet related. Some complete cassettes are an assembly of loose cogs and spacers with the free hub splines aligning the all the cogs, just like the three smallest on the Microshift. It would be great if Microshift sold all the individual cogs separately.

Cheers.

 

[Perryqhill]

Great to hear that Microshift tech support is sending you a replacement cassette. I did take a look at my Microshift cassettes the 11-38T has 2 rivets and 11-42T had 3 rivets. So I am guessing that the 11-42T and 11-46T have 3 rivets, where the 11-38T has only 2 rivets.

Mines a 11 48t though and apparently only has two?

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

As the warranty manager suggested it's unlikely rivet related. Some complete cassettes are an assembly of loose cogs and spacers with the free hub splines aligning the all the cogs, just like the three smallest on the Microshift. It would be great if Microshift sold all the individual cogs separately.

Cheers.

I don't think Microshift will be selling individual cogs anytime soon as a complete cassette is like $35 to $50, that is about the most inexpensive cassette you can buy.

 

[skinnyboy]

I don't think Microshift will be selling individual cogs anytime soon as a complete cassette is like $35 to $50, that is about the most inexpensive cassette you can buy.

Agreed, It's fantastic value. Still a shame to toss mostly unused cogs.

Cheers.

 

[Perryqhill]

Replacement cassette has arrived and it's completely different. Not sure whether to keep as spare now I have the Deore or sell.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Replacement cassette has arrived and it's completely different. Not sure whether to keep as spare now I have the Deore or sell.

View attachment 121170

There is a different in the ADVENT X G-Series vs H-Series 10 Speed Cassettes, the H-Series is all steel cogs and the G-Series has 2 Alu cogs for the 40T - 48T

 

[Perryqhill]

After two or three weeks of no issues I feel I dare post an update

Getting the shimano 11 46t cassette did not cure the issues I was having alone. On the end of third ride or so it started jumping on the 4th smallest cog, 3 or 4 times. I then eased off and didn't use it.

Frustrated by this point with an almost new bike I decided to look more in depth and take off individual parts and start replacing as my patience with the Microshift stuff had worn thin. I by then had also tried to adjust the clutch in the derailleur as it seemed quite poor in the way it takes up the tension, but it was either too much or too little. I also noticed play of around 1mm to 2mm in the way the derailleur hanger bolt sat within the derailleur. Took it apart, cleaned and regreased (it seems to have what look like rubber seals at either end) even tried to limit the play with a washer various ways but there was no real way of doing it as it was either restrictive or you just couldn't get anything to take up the slack. I also wasn't sure about the straightness of the lower cage, especially the top jockey wheel. I had nothing to compare against, but I had tried to straighten the cage up before and it was looking slightly off again. Having taken it off the bike it doesn't actually look anything but straight. But whilst on the bike it seemed to want to point outwards.

So I ordered hg54 chain, deore 10 speed shifter, pilo derailleur hanger, rd m5120 derailleur.

I started by again straightening the derailleur hanger. Then I put the new shimano derailleur on and aligned. I put the old microshift cassette on and the original kmc chain. The result was pretty much the same - jumping like mad in 3rd and 4th smallest cogs. I then took a link out of the the kmc chain - no difference. I then measured the new chain and fitted that - just the same.

I then fitted the week old shimano 11 46t cassette to the new shimano derailleur and the new shimano chain. At this point the new shimano shifter hadn't arrived, but I believed my issues were down to the derailleur and the movement in it and I just wanted to work my way through things. Immediately everything was fine on the new cassette and derailleur- no skipping at all. There was a bit of poor shifting at the top end of the cassette but I put that mostly down to the shifter cable pull ratio not being the same. I then threw the old microshift cassette in the bin - it may not have been the overall issue, but it was now scrap and trust me - whatever the photos look like, it was scrap.

The new shimano shifter turned up in a few days. I fitted that and then also went back to the old (about 70 miles old) KMC chain and its been fine ever since.

Whether the derailleur had took a knock or not I'm not sure. But there seemed to be several small issues with it and to some extent a lot of small issues and play have helped it ruin the original microshift cassette. I'm just happy it seems to be sorted and I'm much happier running shimano.

 

[skinnyboy]

Glad you got it sorted.

Along the same lines, I recentlty changed the chain on my bike from KMC x10 to the e specific model and experienced the chain skipping afterwards (re used the cassette). Increased the chain wrap to eliminate it.

Cheers.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Still new, but have about 300km's on a Microshift Advent X V1.0 now. I have occasional ghost shifts, but only where it tries to jump cogs but jumps straight back - this might just be cable tension due to the frame routing. Only happens when pedalling hard over rough terrain above about 35kph. It did do it once below 25kph on a bumpy climb and snapped the chain.

I have noticed that the adjustment screws move on their own, especially the B screw. So be advised to loctite or superglue (if you don't have any loctite to hand) the threads.

Other than that it shifts really nicely and the shifters really grown on me, especially the double and triple shift down depending on how far you press the lever.

I did read that the "pro" version (silicone pads on the shifters) possibly does 4 shifts, but haven't been able to confirm it.

I also seem to have the V1.0 version of the derailleur :

The V2.0 has a different cage which is shorter and gives more wrap around :

Visually, the V2 has a much longer cutout coming down the cage to the lower jockey and the cutout in the chain guide section of the lower pulley is a single hole, where as on the V1 there's a large cutout and a small cut out.

The top jockey is also mounted lower and the top of the cage has more chain guide around the upper jockey.

I believe the clutch mechanism and everything else is the same.

EDIT : With the screws glued, clutch tightened and an 11s SRAM chain, zero ghost shifts today. Can't say which one improved things.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Want I real like about the Mircoshift drivetrain, is you can use the Advent 9-speed shifter and casesette with the AdventX derailleur. The AdventX derailleur seems to shift better then the Advent derailleur, I like a 9-speed drivetrain over the 10, 11, 12 speeds.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Nice little install video ..

 

[Zimmerframe]

Has anyone else had chain slip issues on the 11t with the Advent V1 ?

I had some slip issues initially through the cassette which was from the adjustment screws doing their own thing. I've corrected that but it continued to slip randomly in the 11t.

Initially, I thought it was the suspension, but dropping the air from the shock and checking shows no movement issues.

I've re-routed the shifter cable to the inside of the seat stay as that's the straightest route and the Advent likes a straight run (plus it stops it rubbing the frame on the outside).

When it's in the 11t it seems to be at the limit of where spring tension is still applied, so if you create forward and backward motion at the bottom of the derailleur (changing pedalling tension) is moves laterally (side to side) - this doesn't happen in any other gears where there's sufficient spring tension (not the clutch).

B-Screw is set correctly, though I've tried it with extra wrap as well, but that makes no difference.

H screw is set correctly, you have to set it quite far out on the Advent compared to others. Have tried adjusting it further in, which when in that gear means there's considerably less movement, but you can't actually shift back into that gear if you're not already in it. I've then done tiny adjustments to get it right on the limit of engaging the gear, but then it has enough movement that it starts slipping randomly. Have tried this on all terrains and different pedal pressures and there is no specific situation when it does it.

Spoke with Microshift, who were helpful, but only suggested what I've done already.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Has anyone else had chain slip issues on the 11t with the Advent V1 ?

I had some slip issues initially through the cassette which was from the adjustment screws doing their own thing. I've corrected that but it continued to slip randomly in the 11t.

Initially, I thought it was the suspension, but dropping the air from the shock and checking shows no movement issues.

I've re-routed the shifter cable to the inside of the seat stay as that's the straightest route and the Advent likes a straight run (plus it stops it rubbing the frame on the outside).

When it's in the 11t it seems to be at the limit of where spring tension is still applied, so if you create forward and backward motion at the bottom of the derailleur (changing pedalling tension) is moves laterally (side to side) - this doesn't happen in any other gears where there's sufficient spring tension (not the clutch).


View attachment 126559

B-Screw is set correctly, though I've tried it with extra wrap as well, but that makes no difference.

H screw is set correctly, you have to set it quite far out on the Advent compared to others. Have tried adjusting it further in, which when in that gear means there's considerably less movement, but you can't actually shift back into that gear if you're not already in it. I've then done tiny adjustments to get it right on the limit of engaging the gear, but then it has enough movement that it starts slipping randomly. Have tried this on all terrains and different pedal pressures and there is no specific situation when it does it.

Spoke with Microshift, who were helpful, but only suggested what I've done already.

I would try tightening the clutch tension and limit the play of the AdventX. I have the clutch tension on my Advent tighten to the max.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I would try tightening the clutch tension and limit the play of the AdventX. I have the clutch tension on my Advent tighten to the max.

Thanks.

Yes, I did that first, it's at max.

They've just said they're going to send me a replacement.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Fitted and tested the replacement.

In the hand, the new one (still a V1 - was hoping they would send a V2) was slightly tighter/less lateral movement around the clutch/cage mount.

Set it all up with the video so it was as prescribed.

Shifting was crisp and smooth - perfect really !

First part of the ride (messing with new fork), zero ghost shifts. Then started to go faster. By the end I'd had three ghost shifts. Two in the highest gear, one when going hard, one when going steady on smooth ground. The other was a couple of gears in.

Possibly it depends on the bike it's installed on, but for me, there's way too much movement around the clutch/cage area and there's lots of lateral movement in the highest gear when the cage moves - bumps/pedalling.

It never jumps if you're not pedalling ......

Any Shimano 11 Speed derailleur should have the same shift ratio as the Advent 10 speed, so I can buy one of those to try and keep the cassette and shifter. Likewise a Cues/linkglide, so maybe one of them, or a whole set.

 

[Perryqhill]

Fitted and tested the replacement.

In the hand, the new one (still a V1 - was hoping they would send a V2) was slightly tighter/less lateral movement around the clutch/cage mount.

Set it all up with the video so it was as prescribed.

Shifting was crisp and smooth - perfect really !

First part of the ride (messing with new fork), zero ghost shifts. Then started to go faster. By the end I'd had three ghost shifts. Two in the highest gear, one when going hard, one when going steady on smooth ground. The other was a couple of gears in.

Possibly it depends on the bike it's installed on, but for me, there's way too much movement around the clutch/cage area and there's lots of lateral movement in the highest gear when the cage moves - bumps/pedalling.

It never jumps if you're not pedalling ......

Any Shimano 11 Speed derailleur should have the same shift ratio as the Advent 10 speed, so I can buy one of those to try and keep the cassette and shifter. Likewise a Cues/linkglide, so maybe one of them, or a whole set.

My issues are detailed back in the thread. I feel the derailleur caused my cassette issue and ruined it in a matter of weeks - something like 60 to 80 miles. I misdiagnosed as cassette first and then after a week on the new cassette when it started jumping gears I looked closer and realised there was seemingly a few issues with the derailleur- mainly the type of play as you described and lateral play on the derailleur pinch bolt which I couldn't overcome.

I went 10 speed basic shimano deore and in 200+ miles since I've had the odd 'snap' into gear on occasions but apart from that it's been fine (original kmc chain, shimano deore 11 46 cassette, deore shifter and I think its Deore Rd M5120).

 

[Zimmerframe]

My issues are detailed back in the thread. I feel the derailleur caused my cassette issue and ruined it in a matter of weeks - something like 60 to 80 miles. I misdiagnosed as cassette first and then after a week on the new cassette when it started jumping gears I looked closer and realised there was seemingly a few issues with the derailleur- mainly the type of play as you described and lateral play on the derailleur pinch bolt which I couldn't overcome.

I went 10 speed basic shimano deore and in 200+ miles since I've had the odd 'snap' into gear on occasions but apart from that it's been fine (original kmc chain, shimano deore 11 46 cassette, deore shifter and I think its Deore Rd M5120).

Yes I read your posts and your pain !

All sounded frustrating. Was the shifter the original microshift shifter ? The only thing I could think of was that it had been swapped for a different shifter which had the wrong pull ratios.

I think when you swapped your new kit on with the original cassette, that could have caused the problems to continue as the pull ratio's for the Shimano 10 speeds are different to the Microshift. The Microshift uses the same pull ratios and spacings as Shimano 11 speed - like the new Cues 10/11 speed systems.

Your cassette in the early photo's looked fine, but it was interesting you still had the same problems when you initially swapped to the Shimano 10 speed cassette. I found a new one here in a box and was contemplating swapping it over, but I think the spacings will be different.

In my case, it's only really the top gear I get slip in, but not constantly like you'd get with chain/cassette wear or bad alignment. It happens enough though to not like it and at some point it will do it and I'll probably fall off - at the same time the small cog won't last long with slips ! It's almost like it wasn't designed for 10 speeds and is being pushed beyond it's design envelope - or the cassette should be mounted 1 tooth spacing closer to the hub so the derailleur isn't operating in it's wobble and flex zone where it is in the highest gear.

 

[Perryqhill]

Yes I read your posts and your pain !

All sounded frustrating. Was the shifter the original microshift shifter ? The only thing I could think of was that it had been swapped for a different shifter which had the wrong pull ratios.

I think when you swapped your new kit on with the original cassette, that could have caused the problems to continue as the pull ratio's for the Shimano 10 speeds are different to the Microshift. The Microshift uses the same pull ratios and spacings as Shimano 11 speed - like the new Cues 10/11 speed systems.

Your cassette in the early photo's looked fine, but it was interesting you still had the same problems when you initially swapped to the Shimano 10 speed cassette. I found a new one here in a box and was contemplating swapping it over, but I think the spacings will be different.

In my case, it's only really the top gear I get slip in, but not constantly like you'd get with chain/cassette wear or bad alignment. It happens enough though to not like it and at some point it will do it and I'll probably fall off - at the same time the small cog won't last long with slips ! It's almost like it wasn't designed for 10 speeds and is being pushed beyond it's design envelope - or the cassette should be mounted 1 tooth spacing closer to the hub so the derailleur isn't operating in it's wobble and flex zone where it is in the highest gear.

The shifter was microshift, presumably it was the original one as the bike was bought ex demo with 20km on and was like new.

I had that on just trying the new Shimano derailleur on and it worked in the higher gears and my problems seemed to he solved, though it seemed a bit sloppy changing in the lower gears. To be truthful I only used it briefly on the new kit as I was waiting for the shimano shifter to arrive and it did days later.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Yes, that's the correct shifter. It's even the "Posh" version with the silicone tabs on the shifter buttons.

If you press the down shift how many clicks are there. On the base version, there's three clicks as you press through the range of motion. So you can change 1,2 or three gears with a single press. I did read in one place that the pro version let you shift 4 - but I wasn't sure if that was a typo or not.

 

[Perryqhill]

Yes, that's the correct shifter. It's even the "Posh" version with the silicone tabs on the shifter buttons.

If you press the down shift how many clicks are there. On the base version, there's three clicks as you press through the range of motion. So you can change 1,2 or three gears with a single press. I did read in one place that the pro version let you shift 4 - but I wasn't sure if that was a typo or not.

I've sold it on now as spares or repair listing the issues on eBay so I haven't got it. But whilst it was on the bike it only allowed one click at a time.

On looking at the Microshift website there's two versions of the pro shifter and one is single click only.


I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard of one or two manufacturers spec single click drivetrains on e-bikes to limit the potential of chain damage/breaking and premature wear so presumably Kona are one of those.