MicroShift Drive Trains on EMTBs?

[cyclebiker0-0]

Hello!

I am curious if anyone has any experience running the MicroShift MTB groupsets on EMTBs? (Advent or Advent X)

I know they offer full steel construction cassettes with the Advent 9-speed groupset, and I believe they offer a full steel 10-speed cassette with the Advent X groupset. I've ridden Advent (9-speed) a few times, and it seemed more than sufficient on the hardtail MTB I tested it on.

So, had anyone tried out the MicroShift groupsets on EMTBs?

Looking forward to any input from fellow EMTBers who have given this a try.

 

[Gary]

Plenty experience with it
Persoanlly I wouldn't even fit a Microshift drivetrain to a shitter pub bike.

 

[cyclebiker0-0]

Plenty experience with it
Persoanlly I wouldn't even fit a Microshift drivetrain to a shitter pub bike.

Interesting. What issues have you experienced?

The Pinkbike review looked quite positive. (Although not an EMTB.)

 

[Gary]

The date of the Pinkbike review gives a fairly big hint as to how long the reviewer actually used it before writing the review. He states two months but i think that's probably being generous. Their reviews are generally on the positive side TBH but the fact he chose to compare it to SLX and NX and clearly hasn't use the microshift in poor conditions means I'm not hugely surprised he found the shifting performance perfectly adequate over the short period he used it. (*more on this later)

Positives
- It's cheap.
- it works fine out the box

Negatives
- it's cheap and feels and looks it
- it feels cheap under shifts (flexy and unrefined shifter levers)
- Microshift cassettes because of their shifting ramp design don't shift as nicely as SRAM or Shimano
- it's fragile
- it's not very durable

10 speed Deore has a slightly higher initial outlay but the shifter and mech will last longer, keep shifting well longer and shimano Deore cassettes are both more durable and better shifting. it's a fairly big jump up in performance and quality. SRAM don't make a decent 10 speed mtb group anymore and I wouldn't touch a low range 9 or 10 speed SRAM drivetrain for EMTB use.

* Something most mtbers with "nice" (expensive) bikes probably won't even realise is that even cheaper 9 and 10 speed shimano drivetrains actually shift noticably faster and cleaner even when neglected/badly looked after than their higher teir 11 or 12 speed groupsets' drivetrains. Especially when the cassette range is massive.

 

[cyclebiker0-0]

@Gary Thanks for the input. I have 12-speed Shimano on my current bike and it is great. I definitely understand their longevity and that they produce high-quality products.

Anther benefit of MicroShift is it's availability--my LBS told me most of the time 95% of it is in stock from their dealer.

I've seen on some other EMTB forum threads where you commend the Zee FR rear derailleur with an XT 11-36T cassette. Do you feel the Deore setup is as robust as the Zee FR?

The other question I have is about reducing chain ring size and its affect on anti-squat while pedaling. Most EMTBs are optimized around a 34t or 36t front chainring. When the 36t or 42t largest rear cog of the aforementioned set-ups, I believe I would want to drop to a 30t or 32t front chainring for the steep climbs here in the mountains of Utah. However, by reducing the the chainring size, you alter the position where the chain pulls from and on most 4-bar horst link suspension systems (like my bike - Fezzari Wire Peak), you will decrease your anti-squat value leading to pedaling induced bob. Now yes, it's an e-bike and it doesn't really matter. However, I am just curious if you noticed any more suspension bobbing if you've decreased your chainring size with the Zee FR or Deore set-up? (Whew...that was long winded.)

Last question: Have you tired Shimano's new LinkGlide drivetrain? 300% increase in durability is a big claim. I have yet to hear any first hand experience with this drivetrain.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Gary]

Zee mechs are a little more robust than Deore but also short cage so stiffer. 36T is the max sprocket a Zee FR mech will work with. and a DH Zee mech 28Tish (the only difference is the swing link, which can be swapped out).
The Zee mech can also be run closer to the cassette than an 11/12 speed wide range mech but chain length is critical.
I use Deore 11-36 cassettes because of their price and durability/longevity. They're also lighter than all but the most expensive 12 speed cassettes.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the effect dropping to a slightly smaller chainring has on your bikes antisquat percentage. antisquat isn't a fixed percentage in the first place and lowering that pecentage slightly isn't going to matter anywhere near as much as having a smooth pedalling technique in the first place. And I find having a motor generally helps with that when seated pedalling.

Link glide isn't available. Pre-back orders are looking at being fulfilled around the end of 2022 (subject to change too) here in the UK. I'd imagine similar lead times across the globe.
But without trying it I'm cynical towards Shimano's claims. (no surprise really )But I can't see how it could possibly last me 3 times longer than the 4000+ miles I currently get out of each Deore cassette on my Emtb.
close ratio 11-25 105 cassettes on my very well looked after but ridden in all weather conditions roadbike last me somewhere around 6000 miles. So for a cassette to last double that ridden off road with a motor sounds fairly unrealistic no matter how well Shimano have designed it.
One look at Shimano's mileage range claims for their Ebike motors should be enough to make you wary of their 300% more durability and mileage claim.

 

[Spin]

.......4000+ miles I currently get out of each Deore cassette on my Emtb......

That's an impressive number ! How often do you replace the chain ? What type of chain lube do you use ?
I'd be blown away if I got a quarter of that from a Deore cassette and I ride in 95% dry conditions and take pretty good care of my drivetrain.

 

[Sander23]

Linkglide stuff is available in the german webshops. In 10 speed deore and 11 speed xt and is fairly cheap

 

[Gary]

That's an impressive number ! How often do you replace the chain ?

I don't.
I run the whole drivetrain from new until it slips under load. Then change the lot (chain, cassette & chainring). By that time the chain has elongated to way off the scale of any chain wear tool but as everything has worn together it still works fine with no slippage. My narrower range cassette, shorter chain and short cage mech narrow range zee mech allows me to run the top jockey wheel closer to the sprockets than stupid wide range cassettes. Creating far greater chain wrap.

What type of chain lube do you use ?

Purged with an application of GT85 and a light application of cheap wet lube like muc off wet or cheaper on top and wipe down the chain/cassette after. Chain examined by eye after every ride. Bike and drivetrain cleaned after every muddy ride.
I also never change gear under load or use high gearing at low cadence. Infact I'll happily spin at a cadence of 120rpm all day long and I run a 36t chainring so my smaller sprockets only get used at high speeds and low torque.

and take pretty good care of my drivetrain.

Clearly. You don't.


PS. Just noticed the irony in your username

 

[Gary]

Linkglide stuff is available in the german webshops. In 10 speed deore and 11 speed xt and is fairly cheap

ah. OK. I buy all my Shimano and SRAM components direct from the UK distributors so never look at prices or stock levels elsewhere.
maybe should have said but I don't actually want to run linkglide.
It's more expensive than my current drivetrain consumables and the closest ratio linkglide cassette (11-43) has too much range for me and requires a longer cage mech.
I happily run a 10-46 cassette and 34t chainring on my normal Enduro bike so don't need more range or lower gearing when I have a motor assisting.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

Hello!

I am curious if anyone has any experience running the MicroShift MTB groupsets on EMTBs? (Advent or Advent X)

I know they offer full steel construction cassettes with the Advent 9-speed groupset, and I believe they offer a full steel 10-speed cassette with the Advent X groupset. I've ridden Advent (9-speed) a few times, and it seemed more than sufficient on the hardtail MTB I tested it on.

So, had anyone tried out the MicroShift groupsets on EMTBs?

Looking forward to any input from fellow EMTBers who have given this a try.

I am using the Advent 9-Speed on my Husky MC-5 and Acolyte 8-speed on Marin E1 Trail both with no issues, easy to setup. I when down to 9-speed and 8-speed do to the cost of chains and cassettes with 10-speeds. I was getting around 1000 - 1200 miles on the chains and double that with the cassettes on my Fezzari WirePeak.

 

[Eduardoramundo]

Microshift 10 speed works great. I’ve been running it for 12 months in the UK slop. 9 speed does not have a clutch on the mech so is no good for MTB.

£120 for cassette/mech and shifter.

 

[Gyro]

I ditched SRAM EX1 8 speed due to the expense after 3 drivetrains. Microshift was the only one available, 10 speed with a long cage 11-48. Purchased 2x drivetrains, running SRAM 8 speed chain as it's heavy duty. The thickness of the cogs on the cluster is thinner and bent one yesterday, will be replacing the cassette with Shimano 10sp 11-46, shifter and derailleur I'll stick with.

 

[1oldfart]

I have a Giant 2021 Ebike, standard 10S Deore 11/46.
It is a dream, simple, affordable, long lasting.
After about 6 weeks it took me 40 seconds to tighten
the cable(no tool needed).
The range is great, chains and cassettes beat any 11 and 12S.
Why go for new?
I go for proven.
Reviews do not exist.
They are just BS marketing.

 

[cyclebiker0-0]

Thanks for the input, everyone! It sounds like there are many good options available.

 

[cyclebiker0-0]

Zee mechs are a little more robust than Deore but also short cage so stiffer. 36T is the max sprocket a Zee FR mech will work with. and a DH Zee mech 28Tish (the only difference is the swing link, which can be swapped out).
The Zee mech can also be run closer to the cassette than an 11/12 speed wide range mech but chain length is critical.
I use Deore 11-36 cassettes because of their price and durability/longevity. They're also lighter than all but the most expensive 12 speed cassettes.

I honestly wouldn't worry about the effect dropping to a slightly smaller chainring has on your bikes antisquat percentage. antisquat isn't a fixed percentage in the first place and lowering that pecentage slightly isn't going to matter anywhere near as much as having a smooth pedalling technique in the first place. And I find having a motor generally helps with that when seated pedalling.

Link glide isn't available. Pre-back orders are looking at being fulfilled around the end of 2022 (subject to change too) here in the UK. I'd imagine similar lead times across the globe.
But without trying it I'm cynical towards Shimano's claims. (no surprise really )But I can't see how it could possibly last me 3 times longer than the 4000+ miles I currently get out of each Deore cassette on my Emtb.
close ratio 11-25 105 cassettes on my very well looked after but ridden in all weather conditions roadbike last me somewhere around 6000 miles. So for a cassette to last double that ridden off road with a motor sounds fairly unrealistic no matter how well Shimano have designed it.
One look at Shimano's mileage range claims for their Ebike motors should be enough to make you wary of their 300% more durability and mileage claim.

Thanks for your input. I appreciate your perspective.

Wow! 4000+ miles on a cassette is impressive. Will the pulley wheels in your RD last for that full duration? (Or are those also swapped out when you do the complete replacement--chain, cassette, chainring, pulley wheels(?)?

 

[Gary]

No. I don't replace jockey wheels at the same time as cassettes unless they happen to also be worn and generally haven't had to replace jockey them until around 7-8000 miles ish but even then although visibly worn they're still useable.
Remember zee uses bushings rather than bearings so they not only are they a lot cheaper they also last longer with less maintenance

 

[Perryqhill]

Hi. Sorry to up an old thread, but it was this thread (after viewing a few others over the last week or so) that made me register.

I've just got an ex demo Kona remote that had 20km on. I've used it for approx 100 miles over the last week and the chain has started skipping under load in the 4th smallest cog and occasionally some of the smaller ones. Doesn't do it cruising in eco etc, just when there's more torque going through it, up hilly bits etc.

Gear train is mostly Microsoft Advent X and a KMC 10 speed chain. I've cleaned and checked the chain for sticky links and with my checker tool, re-aligned the derailleur setting it up from scratch (haven't had a chance to do hanger alignment yet) and set up the gears again- no change.

I've probably been a bit of a twat when using it as getting used to my first EMTB I've been pedaling hard at times in those higher gears rather than spinning at a higher cadence using the emtb power, how likely is it this cassette has shit itself with approx 90 to 100 miles on it?

Oh and would a Deore m4100 11 46t be OK as a replacement? It would still be running on the Microshift derailleur for now and I'd rather not have another Microshift on.

I could chase warranty as I have it on motor and frame, but in part its likely (at least in part) my fault and I don't want another microshift on.

 

[skinnyboy]

Hi. Sorry to up an old thread, but it was this thread (after viewing a few others over the last week or so) that made me register.

I've just got an ex demo Kona remote that had 20km on. I've used it for approx 100 miles over the last week and the chain has started skipping under load in the 4th smallest cog and occasionally some of the smaller ones. Doesn't do it in eco, just when there's more torque going through it.

Gear train is mostly Microsoft Advent X and a KMC 10 speed chain. I've cleaned and checked the chain for sticky links and with my checked tool, re-aligned the derailleur setting it up from scratch (haven't had a chance to do hanger alignment yet) and set up the gears again- no change.

I've probably been a bit of a twat when using it as getting used to my first EMTB I've been pedaling hard at times in those higher gears rather than spinning at a higher cadence using the emtb power, how likely is it this cassette has shit itself with approx 110 miles on it?

Oh and would a Deore m4100 11 46t be OK as a replacement? It would still be running on the Microshift derailleur for now and I'd rather not have another Deore on.

I could chase warranty as I have it on motor and frame, but in part its likely (at least in part) my fault and I don't want another microshift on.

I can't imagine that it's wear related at that low a distance.

Run Microshift Advent and KMC 10 speed chains on all my bikes (haven't tried X), 1500 km on my Decoy and I use the smaller cogs most often as well. No detectable chain wear over 12 inches, just checked it again last night.

My 12 speeds go in the spares box, helped out too many riders with broken 12 speed chains on analog bikes. Also nice to get a meaningful ratio change with each shift.

Hopefully you get it sorted.

Cheers.

 

[Perryqhill]

I'm going to do hanger alignment tonight and a few more checks. Front chain ring looks fine, though the cassette does too really.

Maybe something has picked up a bit of damage, it does seem pretty typical of the type of wear you get, usually on much much older cassettes, when the smaller cogs get worn though. The fact its mainly doing it in one gear hints at cassette too - after checking it over I'll take it out and see if I can replicate it in other gears, but I'm pretty sure it's just the 4th smallest cog.

 

[Perryqhill]

Checked it over tonight. Started with derailleur hanger - it was out and I noticed a couple of marks on the derailleur, also torqued up the hanger. My alignment tool struggled to get in because of the daft hanger on the Remote, but I sorted that. Set up the gears again, set b tension according to manufacturers instructions, none of that made a bit of difference - shifting had been good anyway.

I tried it again and it's pretty easy to replicate the slipping and its only in the 4th smallest cog (I will learn what tooth it is eventually). Took the wheel off and checked play, checked torque on cassette - fine and gave the cassette a degrease and closer inspection.

On looking closer the smallest 5 or 6 cogs the paint/protective coating has worn away a touch, probably expected as I've probably been using those the most. I couldn't see any signs or wear or damage......except in the 4th smallest which I've been having issues with. Nothing on the 4th smallest looks worn as such, but what I'd maybe call 'burring' around the edges of several teeth. I tried to lightly file a couple down back into shape just to see if it made any difference, but it hasn't. I ordered a shimano M4100 last night so I'll see if that cures it.

For all I mentioned earlier I'd maybe been a twat on occasions I am surprised at the damage and how easily its been done. I had one big misshift on a big hill (not even sure i was in that high a gear anyway), but generally I'm quite careful when shifting easing off and giving it a moment to shift before applying power again. I had noticed after the misshift on Saturday when coming down the cog that on occasions moving at a decent pace I'd lift off pedalling, shift into a higher gear, give it a moment two to shift and the apply power again and it was almost as if the chain was snapping into place. From there on the slipping got more frequent.

 

[steve_sordy]

Have you removed the cassette to see if it is still properly rivetted where it ought to be?

I had a Shimano cassette where the gears were in clusters, the clusters were formed by riveting the gears together. On one cluster the rivets had failed and gave me chain slipping symptoms.
I had no problem claiming under warranty.

 

[Perryqhill]

I haven't yet no. I can clearly see damage on the Microshift cassette though and having attempted to file bits down I'm unlikely to get warranty. Which, to be honest, if it was a more expensive part or I had any kind of faith in it I wouldn't have done.

I'll inspect it later as I've got a Deore cassette delivered today. A minute or two before I throw it in the bin.

 

[steve_sordy]

I haven't yet no. I can clearly see damage on the Microshift cassette though and having attempted to file bits down I'm unlikely to get warranty. Which, to be honest, if it was a more expensive part or I had any kind of faith in it I wouldn't have done.

I'll inspect it later as I've got a Deore cassette delivered today. A minute or two before I throw it in the bin.

Take a pic and post it on here, showing the damage that you believe is causing the problem.

 

[Perryqhill]

Can't really see much of it as I've filed a bit off. Presumably there should be three rivets rather than two?

I wonder if the damage I'm trying to show, has been caused as a result of that cog flexing due to only having two rivets as opposed to three.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

With the Microshift Advent drive train I use the KMC x9 chain that has the X-Bridge technology, chamfering plates for smooth shifting and stretch-proof. What chain are you using?

 

[Perryqhill]

With the Microshift Advent drive train I use the KMC x9 chain that has the X-Bridge technology, chamfering plates for smooth shifting and stretch-proof. What chain are you using?

It'll be KMC x10 I'd imagine from standard.

I think the only issue I've had has likely been caused by a missing rivet or a rivet that has detached in the cassette. That's shown itself in wierd 'flexing' sort of feeling when shifting up and eventually just slipping all the time.

 

[Perryqhill]

Put the Deore cassette on, set it all up and it seems fine again.

Gonna try and chase with Microshift/ supplier to see what happens.

 

[Mr-EPIC-3]

It'll be KMC x10 I'd imagine from standard.

I think the only issue I've had has likely been caused by a missing rivet or a rivet that has detached in the cassette. That's shown itself in wierd 'flexing' sort of feeling when shifting up and eventually just slipping all the time.

The smaller cogs on the cassette that have damage, can you feel play in the smaller cogs when using your fingers?
How long have had the Microshift cassette, you could submit a warranty claim.

 

[Perryqhill]

The smaller cogs on the cassette that have damage, can you feel play in the smaller cogs when using your fingers?
How long have had the Microshift cassette, you could submit a warranty claim.

Yes. Obviously it's off now but the area where there's no rivet if I go around with my finger behind the 18t that was the issue there's two or three teeth where there's just the tiniest bit of movement.

The bike is a ex-demo that came with 20km on and ive had it just over a week. It was bought from a guy who sells ex demo Konas (he checks out as being pretty high up) and I'm down as original owner. Hence any warranty will likely be me direct with manufacturer, though I have contacted him for advice.