Not sure what is the best strategy - not join NEMBA because you disagree with them, or join them and change from within. Probably change from within. The NRA used to be against modern rifles like the AR15, and many people refused to join them because of that. But what happened was they had to change to what their members wanted, and their members wanted modern rifles. So any board of director member who was against modern rifles was eventually voted out. Perhaps join NEMBA and vote against anyone who is either advocating to ban eMTB, or won't publicly voice support for them.
Massachusetts DCR set to ban "pedal assist ebikes" from ALL state park/forest "natural surface" trails
- Thread starter JimBo
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #92
I don't think the ban is official yet, and my local park ranger seems to think they'll allow pedal assist, at least for those with medical needs. Thinking positive can't hurt!
I amazed that the disabled access angle isn’t being pushed harder.
My local Cycling Club didn’t allow Ebikes 12 months ago and then a guy with a heart condition tried to join and pointed out they were discriminating against the differently abled. All of sudden Ebikes are welcome. So welcome that I’ve been asked to bring mine to the Festival of Cycling club stand next weekend.
My local Cycling Club didn’t allow Ebikes 12 months ago and then a guy with a heart condition tried to join and pointed out they were discriminating against the differently abled. All of sudden Ebikes are welcome. So welcome that I’ve been asked to bring mine to the Festival of Cycling club stand next weekend.
Pukmeister
Active member
I have a strong view about this as an outsider based in UK, the whole USA access thing seems ridiculous, and I hate seeing BS arguments that unfairly deny people in the same way I hated the Ski/Snowboard BS arguments many years ago. I both Ski AND Board, when on skis the boarders hated me and when on my board.......you get the picture.
There's an awful lot of money to be made with EMTB sales in the USA if the sales success in Europe is anything to go by, for some reason the USA don't seem to have realised that yet and the rule makers are giving in to the haters (or are mostly haters themselves). Sticking it to the man and riding the trails anyway on an EMTB is never gonna win people over.
The USA is a potentially enormous market for cycle manufacturers and they need to crack it sooner or later with E bikes. You guys have so much space available to go and play in. Money talks ( especially in the land of the free if you believe the mass media.)
Call me cynical, but I think once a few people in control of the trail access regulations get persuaded into seeing the potential to make a ton of hard cash both directly and indirectly through the affects of new (E)bike sales, the EMTB market in USA should have its chance to take off and succeed.
Cycle manufacturers need to start fighting their corner regarding access to parks for all. If one State could make a big success of EMTB, it could open the doors for other States to follow.
There's an awful lot of money to be made with EMTB sales in the USA if the sales success in Europe is anything to go by, for some reason the USA don't seem to have realised that yet and the rule makers are giving in to the haters (or are mostly haters themselves). Sticking it to the man and riding the trails anyway on an EMTB is never gonna win people over.
The USA is a potentially enormous market for cycle manufacturers and they need to crack it sooner or later with E bikes. You guys have so much space available to go and play in. Money talks ( especially in the land of the free if you believe the mass media.)
Call me cynical, but I think once a few people in control of the trail access regulations get persuaded into seeing the potential to make a ton of hard cash both directly and indirectly through the affects of new (E)bike sales, the EMTB market in USA should have its chance to take off and succeed.
Cycle manufacturers need to start fighting their corner regarding access to parks for all. If one State could make a big success of EMTB, it could open the doors for other States to follow.
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Again, it's all about understanding. When I first heard about ebikes, I was instantly opposed, but three different friends of mine (all a little younger and much better riders) told me that A) it was a blast and B) ebikes were made for me. I started down the rabbit hole and within two weeks purchased one. I've been riding almost every day and having more fun mountain biking than I have in the last twenty years. Whenever I can I encourage my friends to ride it. No matter how anti ebike they were, when they get off after taking it for a spin they are laughing and asking (positive) questions. The bottom line is that I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy one, merely to understand what an ebike is and how it is essentially no more impactful than their bike. Don't begrudge me my ebike and I won't begrudge you your 5% body fat and youth!
A full ban is currently in the latest version of the draft text. A medical exception is not really needed as ADA already allows accommodations regardless of if they add one or not. In fact it would be bad if they put in that a handicapped parking placard is needed as that is only possible to get if you can't walk more than 200 feet without resting.
nickB
Active member
I have talked with a couple of park rangers around Santa Barbara area and they basically say they don't care about folks on class 1 bikes unless they receive a serious complaint or your being a dick! They have more problems with crazy kids on downhill bikes going too fast!
The rangers may even be getting their own Ebikes to use trails they cannot take a quad down.
The rangers may even be getting their own Ebikes to use trails they cannot take a quad down.
- Thread starter
- #100
Same with my rangers, they're trying to budget for ebikes, not just for search and rescue but also to catch said downhill dicks ?
I guess it’s like dog walking without a leash. I see a few on most rides. It is not allowed but people do it and others tolerate it.
Last week I overheard the group ride leader say that ebikes may be ok in Colorado but MA is too small to share the trails with ebikes. Tomorrow I am doing his ride again but showing up with my ebike and a medical card. I am hoping that when he sees nothing bad happens he will soften his position.
Last week I overheard the group ride leader say that ebikes may be ok in Colorado but MA is too small to share the trails with ebikes. Tomorrow I am doing his ride again but showing up with my ebike and a medical card. I am hoping that when he sees nothing bad happens he will soften his position.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
That my friend is how to break barriers.
When someone mentions ebikes many just think of an electric motorcycle with a throttle that yobbos can use to tear up the trails. Educating them is a great start.
I did the ride. If he noticed he didn't say anything. I am sure he saw as I was right behind him and sometimes in front of him for two hours.
In other news, the SE Mass NEMBA Facebook group just had a post from someone saying they would not be giving more dues to NEMBA if they continued to be anti-eMTB. A few other people chimed in and said the same thing. Since it is a closed-group, I don't want to directly quote people, but the president said his feelings have evolved over the past year and he supports Class-1 now as long as companies don't make more powerful throttle bikes and disguise them as regular MTB.
In other news, the SE Mass NEMBA Facebook group just had a post from someone saying they would not be giving more dues to NEMBA if they continued to be anti-eMTB. A few other people chimed in and said the same thing. Since it is a closed-group, I don't want to directly quote people, but the president said his feelings have evolved over the past year and he supports Class-1 now as long as companies don't make more powerful throttle bikes and disguise them as regular MTB.
Pukmeister
Active member
Well done mate you've taken the first step to breaking down other peoples prejudices and I commend you for it. Once a few more people begin to realise we aren't a menace on the trails or a threat, opinion will swing towards acceptance.
I have EBiked many Sedona trails and only found a few banned.
Crawford919
Active member
https://b.3cdn.net/bikes/0a8683b43fba1f4d2a_4zm6bg5j2.pdf
This is good information and a place to start with talking points when communicating with local officials.
This is good information and a place to start with talking points when communicating with local officials.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Outstanding resource.
Rusty
E*POWAH BOSS
Oohh Oohh - I luvs poles
This is what I wrote, but since it is a closed group, I don't want to post the results. You can join the SE Mass NEMBA group and see them if you want.
Class-1 eMTB are accepted in Europe as part of the sport of Mountain Biking. These are bikes limited to 20 mph and one *must* pedal. They have not really caught on in the US so far, though a lot seems to be in flux. For example, the Tahoe area of CA did a multi-year study and decided to allow them on normal natural bike trails. They will almost certainly spread to ski resorts in VT and NH soon, and then trickle down to other trail systems.
Questionnaires done in 2010 and 2015 showed that most Mountain Bikers in our area were not ready to accept them. More nationally, after seeing views start to change, the IMBA changed to position in 2017 to support them on natural trails alongside manual bikes. They updated this statement again in 2019 to reaffirm this support. PeopleForBikes, and MassBike, also supports Class-1 eMTB.
NEMBA leadership has been against Class-1 eMTB, but didn't poll the public or members, as far as I know. They wrote documents and sent out letters asking that eMTB not be allowed. The newly-proposed MA DCR regs now have language to formally ban Class-1 eMTB from our single-track, and these regs, if approved, could easily be in place for decades upon decades as this new technology continues to evolve - leaving us out of the fun that will be happening everywhere else.
I support e-MTB (Class-1 only) on natural single track, but I have no idea how most people feel - so I am doing a casual non-scientific feeler poll to get more of a sense for it. Maybe few other people think they will ever want one in the future?
Yes, Class-1 (20mph limit) low-power pedal-only eMTB should be allowed on bike trails:
No, even low-power eMTB should be banned from bike trails.
Class-1 eMTB are accepted in Europe as part of the sport of Mountain Biking. These are bikes limited to 20 mph and one *must* pedal. They have not really caught on in the US so far, though a lot seems to be in flux. For example, the Tahoe area of CA did a multi-year study and decided to allow them on normal natural bike trails. They will almost certainly spread to ski resorts in VT and NH soon, and then trickle down to other trail systems.
Questionnaires done in 2010 and 2015 showed that most Mountain Bikers in our area were not ready to accept them. More nationally, after seeing views start to change, the IMBA changed to position in 2017 to support them on natural trails alongside manual bikes. They updated this statement again in 2019 to reaffirm this support. PeopleForBikes, and MassBike, also supports Class-1 eMTB.
NEMBA leadership has been against Class-1 eMTB, but didn't poll the public or members, as far as I know. They wrote documents and sent out letters asking that eMTB not be allowed. The newly-proposed MA DCR regs now have language to formally ban Class-1 eMTB from our single-track, and these regs, if approved, could easily be in place for decades upon decades as this new technology continues to evolve - leaving us out of the fun that will be happening everywhere else.
I support e-MTB (Class-1 only) on natural single track, but I have no idea how most people feel - so I am doing a casual non-scientific feeler poll to get more of a sense for it. Maybe few other people think they will ever want one in the future?
Yes, Class-1 (20mph limit) low-power pedal-only eMTB should be allowed on bike trails:
No, even low-power eMTB should be banned from bike trails.
Pukmeister
Active member
Try Googling Verbier ebike festival for an example of how Europeans embrace it. See what the haters in USA are missing out on through blind ignorance, and also suffocating sales and growth in a big new market.
Actually, I'll make it easy for you, here you go:
If a state in USA took the initiative, relaxed its access laws and held an ebike festival in the same way, who knows ???
Actually, I'll make it easy for you, here you go:
If a state in USA took the initiative, relaxed its access laws and held an ebike festival in the same way, who knows ???
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If NEMBA is like other non profit mtb organizations, it's not a membership organization in the strict sense, if you're a "member" you don't have any say in how it's run, or who the board or other leadership is. There aren't any elections available to members. IMBA is the same way.
Pukmeister
Active member
Who are these NEMBA people, and why are they so important?
They sound a bit like like the American Dodgeball Association of America to me, (being a Brit.)
They sound a bit like like the American Dodgeball Association of America to me, (being a Brit.)
Rich-EMTB-UK
E*POWAH Master
Feel real sorry for you guys in the states with all the anti Ebike stuff. Had a cracking day out today on our E-bikes in the Peak District in the UK today. Spoke to lots of walkers and mountain bikers with no problems from anyone and lots of positive comments. Hope you guys can get past this you really need some industry support.
Pukmeister
Active member
Thanks for the reply.
We have something similar in UK, folk that know better, protest too much and oppose anything new.
We call them NIMBY's (Not In My Back Yard)
We have something similar in UK, folk that know better, protest too much and oppose anything new.
We call them NIMBY's (Not In My Back Yard)
nickB
Active member
This is good news for us in California - Tahoe is a big influence on the rest of our USFS parks.
USFS allows Low Power Pedal Assist Bikes at Lake Tahoe!
AUG 25, 2019 —
The Electric Mountain Bike Association's OC Parks Action Committee has been meeting weekly. We are making progress and will be speaking and presenting our petition with over 3700 signatures at the Public comments section of the Oct 3, 2019 7PM meeting of the OC Parks supervisors. Please join and support us. Your membership is free. Your contributions help our association continue this fight. Here is what one committee member learned this week:
Called the Lake Tahoe USFS and had a interesting conversation....
Was told to talk to Joseph Flannery who was the one that initiated the pilot program to open up USFS trails to e-bikes. I spoke to his secretary and she was very enlightening! She said the program to open up the trails to e-bikes was so successful that Flannery is trying to get this done NATIONALLY! She said there has been zero impact in allowing e-bikes. In fact, mountain biking participation has increased, primarily in the middle to upper age group because of the benefits of e-bikes (as we are pointing out!). More people are riding than before. They also want to expand access to e-bikes. Lake Tahoe is an advocate to allowing e-bikes in the USFS territory because of the success of the program. I have an email out to Joseph Flannery and will report more when I talk with him.
I went on to ask his secretary if I rode my e-bike in USFS land, would I be cited with a ticket. Surprisingly, she said that at the moment the USFS does NOT have the authority (at least at Tahoe) to issue tickets! But she said that can also be district specific. But so far, she has not seen any higher up decree that says e-bikes are to be cited! I mentioned that I think the e-bike ban is more due to lack of education to the individuals making the decisions. She totally agreed and said once you ride one, you understand that it is not a "motorized vehicle" that the USFS bans.
So those were encouraging words and I will add to this notification when I hear more. I will also be up at Big Bear this weekend and I will try to talk to the administrators about issues they had with e-bikes... currently allowed at Snow Summit!
USFS allows Low Power Pedal Assist Bikes at Lake Tahoe!
AUG 25, 2019 —
The Electric Mountain Bike Association's OC Parks Action Committee has been meeting weekly. We are making progress and will be speaking and presenting our petition with over 3700 signatures at the Public comments section of the Oct 3, 2019 7PM meeting of the OC Parks supervisors. Please join and support us. Your membership is free. Your contributions help our association continue this fight. Here is what one committee member learned this week:
Called the Lake Tahoe USFS and had a interesting conversation....
Was told to talk to Joseph Flannery who was the one that initiated the pilot program to open up USFS trails to e-bikes. I spoke to his secretary and she was very enlightening! She said the program to open up the trails to e-bikes was so successful that Flannery is trying to get this done NATIONALLY! She said there has been zero impact in allowing e-bikes. In fact, mountain biking participation has increased, primarily in the middle to upper age group because of the benefits of e-bikes (as we are pointing out!). More people are riding than before. They also want to expand access to e-bikes. Lake Tahoe is an advocate to allowing e-bikes in the USFS territory because of the success of the program. I have an email out to Joseph Flannery and will report more when I talk with him.
I went on to ask his secretary if I rode my e-bike in USFS land, would I be cited with a ticket. Surprisingly, she said that at the moment the USFS does NOT have the authority (at least at Tahoe) to issue tickets! But she said that can also be district specific. But so far, she has not seen any higher up decree that says e-bikes are to be cited! I mentioned that I think the e-bike ban is more due to lack of education to the individuals making the decisions. She totally agreed and said once you ride one, you understand that it is not a "motorized vehicle" that the USFS bans.
So those were encouraging words and I will add to this notification when I hear more. I will also be up at Big Bear this weekend and I will try to talk to the administrators about issues they had with e-bikes... currently allowed at Snow Summit!
- Thread starter
- #119
NEMBA recently updated its "position" on eMTBs. While not fully embracing true pedelec MTBs, it's a far cry from NEMBA's previous - often ridiculous - statements on them since 2013.
Note the reference at the end to a new Facebook Group that advocates for eMTB trail access in New England. I heartily urge all New England riders to join, if you haven't already.
NEMBA's new Executive Director, Travis Counsell, also invited eMTBers to join a Zoom Forum on Sat Feb 20 at 5pm eastern. I believe NEMBA hired him in part because of his willingness to work with e-mountainbikers - the prior ED outright rejected such overtures, and lost at least a few members (like me) as a result.
For anyone not on Facebook, you can sign up to join the Zoom meeting by emailing [email protected]
Note the reference at the end to a new Facebook Group that advocates for eMTB trail access in New England. I heartily urge all New England riders to join, if you haven't already.
NEMBA's new Executive Director, Travis Counsell, also invited eMTBers to join a Zoom Forum on Sat Feb 20 at 5pm eastern. I believe NEMBA hired him in part because of his willingness to work with e-mountainbikers - the prior ED outright rejected such overtures, and lost at least a few members (like me) as a result.
For anyone not on Facebook, you can sign up to join the Zoom meeting by emailing [email protected]
- Thread starter
- #120
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