Massachusetts DCR set to ban "pedal assist ebikes" from ALL state park/forest "natural surface" trails

[dirt huffer]

I'm not sure how NEMBA operates, but in my state the MTB advocacy group is all volunteer and they're voted in yearly... Hopefully the clowns running NEMBA don't cause to much irreversible harm, because they're on the wrong side of history. Eventually ebikes are going to big in the US and dominate sales IMO and they will do more good then bad by bringing people who otherwise wouldn't mountain bike, into the sport

 

[fos'l]

Funny thing: a member of NEMBA is a mod of the ebike forum at MTBR and AFAIK sells eMTB's. Guess he's not too influential with the group, but seemingly has helped PA adopt eMTB's for their trails.

 

[RickBullotta]

NEMBA is completely clueless - I suspect not a single board member has actually ridden an eMTB for any length of time. The fallacy that eMTBs are flying around at 20 MPH all the time is just absurd. Hell, many Cat 1 MTB riders are faster than most eMTBers around here. And of course 90% of the time terrain and trail shape limits your speed long before you max out the motor. A very simple strategy of limiting access to Class 1 eMTBs, with a $300-500 fine for riding a derestricted bike (real or imagined) is rational and realistic. This *will* end up in litigation at some point. The industry is selling too many eMTBs and higher margins than conventional bikes to allow these irrational bans to continue.

 

[fos'l]

Don't know about MA, but the shop owners here don't seem to be doing anything to try and promote eMTB. They stand to gain the most since their sales of ebikes appear to have diminished significantly since the new rules were adopted.

 

[RickBullotta]

Don't know about MA, but the shop owners here don't seem to be doing anything to try and promote eMTB. They stand to gain the most since their sales of ebikes appear to have diminished significantly since the new rules were adopted.

I'm in PA and it's hit or miss as to how different shops promote eMTBs. At shops where the owners or staff ride them, obviously a far more evangelical mindset.

Floyd Landis is actually opening an eBike/hemp/coffee shop here!

Former cyclist Floyd Landis opening bike, coffee, hemp shop in Lancaster County

 

[Brianjonesphoto]

Here in Washington cladd 1 bikes are bikes, BUT use on natural surfaces is up to the land owner/park system. Not legal riding anywhere close to me. If I have to ride in places open to motos I’m taking my moto. I’m 6 months I have yet to have any run ins with anyone that gets more than a stink eye. Most thinks it’s interesting or cool.

One detail I have not been able to figure out is how a trail is considered a “natural” surface. Trails are man made there is nothing natural about them. Without people using them the revert back to wild pretty quickly. Therefore I am only riding on man made surfaces and within the law.

 

[MoWind]

Well I'm supposed to go to Vermont this weekend to ride with my son, and I just checked the rules on NEMBA site and it tells me that Vermont is essentially closed to ebikes, so... do I ride and feign ignorance if caught OR do I go somewhere else with my money and support another state's economy?

The latter...

 

[HikerDave]

Don't know about MA, but the shop owners here don't seem to be doing anything to try and promote eMTB. They stand to gain the most since their sales of ebikes appear to have diminished significantly since the new rules were adopted.

Global Bikes in Arizona was influential in getting our eBike law passed with an assist from Pivot.

That proposed Massachusetts rule change is a horrible insult to eBike riders; give a separate designation for eBikes in one paragraph, then use that designation to create a blanket prohibition on statewide trail and pathway access in another.

That NEMBA member who told me that he was reasonable and could support eBike access depending on local conditions wasn’t being completely honest, I think. Or maybe he meant “trails not in MY state”.

 

[fos'l]

You'll encounter a lot of dishonesty, wild examples and other disingenuous behavior from the haters. Some posters on a local forum here are so vehement I'm surprised they don't get a heart attack every time the subject is broached. MTBR used to be a breeding ground for the e minus crowd and several years go I told FC the site would never progress unless he eliminated them. Guess he wanted it to be his idea since it was adopted recently.

 

[HikerDave]

You'll encounter a lot of dishonesty, wild examples and other disingenuous behavior from the haters. Some posters on a local forum here are so vehement I'm surprised they don't get a heart attack every time the subject is broached. MTBR used to be a breeding ground for the e minus crowd and several years go I told FC the site would never progress unless he eliminated them. Guess he wanted it to be his idea since it was adopted recently.

We all need our safe spaces; I really appreciate this forum ?

 

[daju]

JimBo, Thanks a lot for that alert. I'll be drafting and mailing a written comment tomorrow.

 

[JimBo]

JimBo, Thanks a lot for that alert. I'll be drafting and mailing a written comment tomorrow.

If you can get to Brighton at 7pm on July 2, you can tell DCR your position directly. It's the last chance to do so before they enact the new rule, which apparently was originally proposed in 2016. I'm making my case in Holyoke this Thursday.

 

[wrayb]

My suggestion would be that ALL Ebikers in New England join the NEMBA and start to show up for meetings and run for office... I'm guessing there is a handful of jerks that run everything and dominate the agenda. OR as an alternative, form a new NEMBA (New England Mountain Bicyclits Association? LOL) and campaign hard for members. Wrest some financial support from the industry and then work to get on the agendas in the states and counties involved.

Ditto! That is EXACTLY my belief. Is anyone else on this forum a member of a local MTB club where a few very vocal (and to their credit very involved and contributing) members dominate the club? They may say things like "if Emtb's are allowed on the trails I built I won't support any more trail building/maintenance". Other members are afraid to lose the person who does most of the work so that go along with these people and allow them to guide the club. So...if you are serious about riding your Emtb on your local tails you really need to join the local club (with all your Emtb friends) and add your voice to the issues, but do it in a very positive, not-confrontational manor. This requires some diplomacy and must be done right or you could cause things to get worse.

 

[grantini]

Interestingly I was in Vermont this weekend and took my son's bike into the LBS to get new tires on our way to ride yesterday. Keep in mind that NEMBA posts that EMTB's are illegal in Vermont. Remarkably, the LBS said they have TONS of ebike riders in the area and there is a sign on the wall promoting a State program where Vermont will pay a $200 rebate if you purchase an ebike....

 

[daju]

If you can get to Brighton at 7pm on July 2, you can tell DCR your position directly. It's the last chance to do so before they enact the new rule, which apparently was originally proposed in 2016. I'm making my case in Holyoke this Thursday.

Let us knowhow it goes on Thursday--the force is with you

 

[JimBo]

Last night I spoke at a MARTAB meeting, comprised of Appalachian Mtn Club (hikers), Snowmobile Association of MA, Equestrians, Dog Walkers and other trail interest group members. I made a compelling case that Class 1 eMTBs should be treated as bicycles; many attendees professed unawareness of ebikes on trails.

A couple of sensible arguments came up, primarily that the 20 mph governance might make sense for road use, but not for trails. Bike path and multi-use trail speed limits have always been 15 mph (though I've never seen this posted on any trails), and while many cyclists exceed this without pedal assist, other users oppose ebikes on trails for fear that this will only increase.

Perhaps they wouldn't worry quite so much if we had adopted the EU standard, at least for off-road-intended ebikes. I realize that many EU eMTBers argue that derestriction might not be so prevalent there if the US limit was allowed there, but I tend to agree that 20's too fast for motor propulsion on most multi-use trails.

It may well be that the equal access most EU riders enjoy can be attributed in part to the 15 mph cap.

 

[fos'l]

I think some (most/all) of the uninformed envision everyone on an eMTB blasting up ascents at 20 mph when this isn't the case. It's difficult to change perceptions though.

 

[JimBo]

I think some (most/all) of the uninformed envision everyone on an eMTB blasting up ascents at 20 mph when this isn't the case. It's difficult to change perceptions though.

Agreed, but anticipating folks - esp kids - to hit 20 mph on level rail and other multi-use trails is not so uninformed.

 

[RickBullotta]

Last night I spoke at a MARTAB meeting, comprised of Appalachian Mtn Club (hikers), Snowmobile Association of MA, Equestrians, Dog Walkers and other trail interest group members. I made a compelling case that Class 1 eMTBs should be treated as bicycles; many attendees professed unawareness of ebikes on trails.

A couple of sensible arguments came up, primarily that the 20 mph governance might make sense for road use, but not for trails. Bike path and multi-use trail speed limits have always been 15 mph (though I've never seen this posted on any trails), and while many cyclists exceed this without pedal assist, other users oppose ebikes on trails for fear that this will only increase.

Perhaps they wouldn't worry quite so much if we had adopted the EU standard, at least for off-road-intended ebikes. I realize that many EU eMTBers argue that derestriction might not be so prevalent there if the US limit was allowed there, but I tend to agree that 20's too fast for motor propulsion on most multi-use trails.

It may well be that the equal access most EU riders enjoy can be attributed in part to the 15 mph cap.

Respectfully, I don't agree with the 15 MPH/20 MPH argument. The limiting factor for speed on most MTB trails is handling and traction, not power. Humans can easily power a MTB to speeds well above 20 MPH, and as you well know, descending speeds often exceed 40 MPH, with 25-30 MPH the norm. I've raced and ridden nearly every kind of bike on every kind or circuit, and 20 MPH is a very realistic and reasonable limit, not 15.

In a recent eMTB race that I did, the only time we were at 20 MPH (besides descents) was in wide open trail areas with good visibility. No way you could hold that speed in the twisties or the technical sections.

A decent CAT 1 rider can generate the same speeds as a Class 1 eMTB in most conditions.

Even the on the paved and gravel rail trails around here, some of which have a 15 MPH limit, the vast majority of cyclists are going 17-20 MPH.

I *STRONGLY* believe that the 20 MPH limit is the ideal one for Class 1 eBikes.

 

[RickBullotta]

Agreed, but anticipating folks - esp kids - to hit 20 mph on level rail and other multi-use trails is not so uninformed.

Kids? How about lots of Cat 1 and some Cat 2 MTB racers. Easily. Without a motor.

 

[JimBo]

Respectfully, I don't agree with the 15 MPH/20 MPH argument. The limiting factor for speed on most MTB trails is handling and traction, not power. Humans can easily power a MTB to speeds well above 20 MPH, and as you well know, descending speeds often exceed 40 MPH, with 25-30 MPH the norm. I've raced and ridden nearly every kind of bike on every kind or circuit, and 20 MPH is a very realistic and reasonable limit, not 15.

In a recent eMTB race that I did, the only time we were at 20 MPH (besides descents) was in wide open trail areas with good visibility. No way you could hold that speed in the twisties or the technical sections.

A decent CAT 1 rider can generate the same speeds as a Class 1 eMTB in most conditions.

Even the on the paved and gravel rail trails around here, some of which have a 15 MPH limit, the vast majority of cyclists are going 17-20 MPH.

I *STRONGLY* believe that the 20 MPH limit is the ideal one for Class 1 eBikes.

Again I concur, but it's from the perspective of an eMTB rider. The problem is that most folks will never experience riding these bikes, and thus can only perceive bikes zipping by them on the trails.

 

[RickBullotta]

Again I concur, but it's from the perspective of an eMTB rider. The problem is that most folks will never experience riding these bikes, and this can only perceive bikes zipping by them on the trails.

Truth. That's why I let everyone ride mine. ;-)

 

[daju]

Last night I spoke at a MARTAB meeting, comprised of Appalachian Mtn Club (hikers), Snowmobile Association of MA, Equestrians, Dog Walkers and other trail interest group members. I made a compelling case that Class 1 eMTBs should be treated as bicycles; many attendees professed unawareness of ebikes on trails.

A couple of sensible arguments came up, primarily that the 20 mph governance might make sense for road use, but not for trails. Bike path and multi-use trail speed limits have always been 15 mph (though I've never seen this posted on any trails), and while many cyclists exceed this without pedal assist, other users oppose ebikes on trails for fear that this will only increase.

Perhaps they wouldn't worry quite so much if we had adopted the EU standard, at least for off-road-intended ebikes. I realize that many EU eMTBers argue that derestriction might not be so prevalent there if the US limit was allowed there, but I tend to agree that 20's too fast for motor propulsion on most multi-use trails.

It may well be that the equal access most EU riders enjoy can be attributed in part to the 15 mph cap.

Thanks for speaking up.

 

[JimBo]

It's been a couple months since I saw this video brought forth, so I'll post it again ("They're too fast!"):

 

[JimBo]

The first hearing about MA DCR's draconian anti-ebike stance was held in Holyoke tonight and went well. Eight of the nine people who spoke supported pedal assist trail use! The one who spoke against it was from the local chapter of NEMBA, but he actually was more neutral than against. He just wanted DCR to conduct its own studies, which was one of my suggestions too.

This is Western MA, though, and we probably have less than half the population density of Eastern MA. There might well be more opposition at next week's hearing, which will be held near Boston. I guess I'll just have to go and see for myself!

Thanks for the support and inspiration ?

 

[JimBo]

It amazes me how a state that allows people to purchase marijuana smoke it then proceeds to drive a 3000lb car or truck with no way to test for being high is ok. Driving a e bike on trails however is a grave crime. So people that can only mountain bike with assistance are forced to give it up. Imagine a family loosing a kid in a state park. Personal all having access to ebikes would enable them to search the areas that larger transport can't make it through possibly saving a life or stabilizing someone until help can arrive. I think they are missing out on a great opportunity with this one.

Turns out that the local Ranger that took a demo eMTB ride with me last year just put in a request to acquire a fleet of them for search rescue and patrolling ?

 

[HikerDave]

The first hearing about MA DCR's draconian anti-ebike stance was held in Holyoke tonight and went well. Eight of the nine people who spoke supported pedal assist trail use! The one who spoke against it was from the local chapter of NEMBA, but he actually was more neutral than against. He just wanted DCR to conduct its own studies, which was one of my suggestions too.

This is Western MA, though, and we probably have less than half the population density of Eastern MA. There might well be more opposition at next week's hearing, which will be held near Boston. I guess I'll just have to go and see for myself!

Thanks for the support and inspiration ?

Good news; hopefully you’ll get a few more trails to ride.

 

[JimBo]

Good news; hopefully you’ll get a few more trails to ride.

Even better news, I tipped off the local media and my buddy Kevin got interviewed! He's the one who turn me on to mountain biking circa 1990...
https://www.wwlp.com/news/public-hearing-held-to-discuss-proposed-e-bike-ban-on-dcr-trails/
Eight of the nine people who spoke were in favor of ebikes on trails! And the one dissenter was really neutral, he just asked DCR to conduct its own studies before enacting any new pedal assist policies.

 

[RickBullotta]

The first hearing about MA DCR's draconian anti-ebike stance was held in Holyoke tonight and went well. Eight of the nine people who spoke supported pedal assist trail use! The one who spoke against it was from the local chapter of NEMBA, but he actually was more neutral than against. He just wanted DCR to conduct its own studies, which was one of my suggestions too.

This is Western MA, though, and we probably have less than half the population density of Eastern MA. There might well be more opposition at next week's hearing, which will be held near Boston. I guess I'll just have to go and see for myself!

Thanks for the support and inspiration ?

Also, the industry itself (Specialized, Trek, Bulls, Shimano, Bosch, Pivot, Intense, etc) needs to get directly involved in access and advocacy for eMTBs. They have a very vested interest in the outcome.

 

[HikerDave]

Also, the industry itself (Specialized, Trek, Bulls, Shimano, Bosch, Pivot, Intense, etc) needs to get directly involved in access and advocacy for eMTBs. They have a very vested interest in the outcome.

Chris Cocalis of Pivot and the owner of the shop where I bought my bike, Global Bikes, stepped up to get our Arizona eBike law passed. (Pivot is based here in Tempe, Arizona)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/electricbikeaction.com/amp/arizona-passes-e-bike-bill/