Massachusetts DCR set to ban "pedal assist ebikes" from ALL state park/forest "natural surface" trails

[JimBo]

See pages 1 & 30 here:
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2019/06/03/2019.05.21 302 CMR 12 - DRAFT - redline - public comment 2019.pdf

To object, attend one of two final "public hearings" (Holyoke June 25 and Brighton July 2) or submit testimony in writing before July 24:
https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2019/06/03/2019.05.16 - Notice - DRAFT 302 CMR 11, 12.pdf

 

[fos'l]

From my contacts in MA, the parks are very crowded as it it. Better mount the troops or eMTB won't be a MA thing. Chances seem slim at getting approval even with e-support AFAICT

 

[JimBo]

From my contacts in MA, the parks are very crowded as it it. Better mount the troops or eMTB won't be a MA thing. Chances seem slim at getting approval even with e-support AFAICT

If enough people speak up, we have a chance. So far DCR has only heard from New Eng MTB Assn on the matter, from what I understand. And me...

 

[HORSPWR]

I struggle to understand the reasoning to ban ebikes on already congested trails. What effect do ebikes have over a normal bike that make people object?

 

[grantini]

aren't all you guys members of the New England Mountain Bike Association?

 

[fos'l]

Pretty difficult for me since I've resided in CA for a long time.

 

[dirt huffer]

It would be sweet irony if the people championing the ban got a condition that didn't allow them use of a regular bike, and they had to use bike with pedal assist or give up the hobby

 

[Rainman1404]

It amazes me how a state that allows people to purchase marijuana smoke it then proceeds to drive a 3000lb car or truck with no way to test for being high is ok. Driving a e bike on trails however is a grave crime. So people that can only mountain bike with assistance are forced to give it up. Imagine a family loosing a kid in a state park. Personal all having access to ebikes would enable them to search the areas that larger transport can't make it through possibly saving a life or stabilizing someone until help can arrive. I think they are missing out on a great opportunity with this one.

 

[dirt huffer]

It amazes me how a state that allows people to purchase marijuana smoke it then proceeds to drive a 3000lb car or truck with no way to test for being high is ok. Driving a e bike on trails however is a grave crime. So people that can only mountain bike with assistance are forced to give it up. Imagine a family loosing a kid in a state park. Personal all having access to ebikes would enable them to search the areas that larger transport can't make it through possibly saving a life or stabilizing someone until help can arrive. I think they are missing out on a great opportunity with this one.

The anti ebikers need to smoke,chill out, and open their mind

 

[fos'l]

Similar situation in the part of CA where I reside (the haters are loud and ugly), but it's not as big an issue since there are numerous places to ride where there's nobody else around and almost no policing anywhere.

 

[grantini]

Who are the haters? Are they other mountain bikers? Equestrians? Bird watchers? In my experience the ONLY people that even know an ebike exists are other mountain bikers.

 

[fos'l]

MTB have a guarded peace with hikers and equestrians; since these individuals generally don't know MTB from eMTB, no problem AFAICT. The haters, mostly on forums, but who also influence lawmakers, are MTB riders. For example, in my county, all parks are off limits to all classes of eMTB by order of the superintendent.

 

[grantini]

The funny thing is, I was a regular MTB rider for the past thirty years, so they are the ones that impacted MY riding when they started, I'm a non-event as far as volume of riders go, which is likely true for MOST EMTB riders.... we are old guys who want to still have fun. We were riding suspension free mountain bikes while you punk ass 40 year olds were riding big wheels in your parents driveway! Who gives these clowns the right to complain about me, I'm sorry if I'm the one passing you on an uphill for a change, but I was faster than they were when I was their age! But I digress.... I think what has to happen nationally is that there needs to be a program of education for the entire community, expressing A) That we all benefit from or lose trail access together and B) They are all getting older, and ten years from now, the ebike option may become attractive to them. I was thirty years old, banging 20 mile rides, with major hills about two weeks ago. I'm sixty now. And for the first time in a while I'm riding at least an hour almost every day and having fun. Y'all are all going to end up where I am eventually.

 

[dirt huffer]

Who are the haters? Are they other mountain bikers? Equestrians? Bird watchers? In my experience the ONLY people that even know an ebike exists are other mountain bikers.

I agree.

Plus, by the time the average person in the US knows what an ebike is, motors could be almost totally silent and so well integrated that only the discerning MTB fanboy will be able to tell the difference between it and a non-assist bike... then how are they going to even police it if they don't know what's assisted and what's not? I guess they could watch for people going fast up hill but why wouldn't the ebiker just ride away from whoever is enforcing these "Nerf" laws?

 

[fos'l]

In general, this could reinforce the hater's argument (not mine). They state if the "rangers" can't tell the difference, they'll ban all bikes. Just one of the "justifications" they use for hating.

 

[grantini]

The funny thing is, I was a regular MTB rider for the past thirty years, so they are the ones that impacted MY riding when they started, I'm a non-event as far as volume of riders go, which is likely true for MOST EMTB riders.... we are old guys who want to still have fun. We were riding suspension free mountain bikes while you punk ass 40 year olds were riding big wheels in your parents driveway! Who gives these clowns the right to complain about me, I'm sorry if I'm the one passing you on an uphill for a change, but I was faster than they were when I was their age! But I digress.... I think what has to happen nationally is that there needs to be a program of education for the entire community, expressing A) That we all benefit from or lose trail access together and B) They are all getting older, and ten years from now, the ebike option may become attractive to them. I was thirty years old, banging 20 mile rides, with major hills about two weeks ago. I'm sixty now. And for the first time in a while I'm riding at least an hour almost every day and having fun. Y'all are all going to end up where I am eventually.

I think it is worth noting that as far as other riders go, I'm MUCH less of a hindrance than I was before. Let's face it, if you are trying to climb a hill and I'm pushing my bike up that same hill, I'm going to be in your way. If I'm passing you on that same hill, I'm no issue for you at all, stick to your line!

 

[JimBo]

The main eMTB oppo here has come from New England Mtn Bike Assn (NEMBA), and most of the objectors won't even try riding one. For the past five years, NEMBA has been on an all-out anti-eMTB campaign, culminating in April '18 with a BS-filled letter to New England bike dealers. The gist of it was that, if you sell eMTBs, you must tell buyers that they can only ride them on motorized (ATV/dirtbike) trails.

Last year, Connecticut passed the 3-class ebike law classifying 20 mph pedal assist bikes as bicycles. Thanks to state officials hearing only from NEMBA on the matter, however, CT made an exception for natural surface trails and now ebikes are not allowed to ride park & forest dirt trails. Now, the same thing is happening here in Massachusetts.

Because of NEMBA's persistent shaming of eMTB adopters and sellers, ebikes have been slow to catch on among MTBers hereabouts (precious few shops carry demo eMTBs). NEMBA also argues that there are plenty of motorized trails for us to ride (which is total crap - nearest one to me is an hour away, whereas I have hundreds of awesome singletrack trails within riding distance). Besides, no one wants to breathe raw and burnt hydrocarbons when we're huffing up hills.

 

[grantini]

The main eMTB oppo here has come from New England Mtn Bike Assn (NEMBA), and most of the objectors won't even try riding one. For the past five years, NEMBA has been on an all-out anti-eMTB campaign, culminating in April '18 with a BS-filled letter to New England bike dealers. The gist of it was that, if you sell eMTBs, you must tell buyers that they can only ride them on motorized (ATV/dirtbike) trails.

Last year, Connecticut passed the 3-class ebike law classifying 20 mph pedal assist bikes as bicycles. Thanks to state officials hearing only from NEMBA on the matter, however, CT made an exception for natural surface trails and now ebikes are not allowed to ride park & forest dirt trails. Now, the same thing is happening here in MA.

Because of NEMBA's shaming of eMTB adopters and sellers, ebikes have been slow to catch on among MTBers hereabouts (precious few shops carry demo eMTBs). NEMBA also argues that there are plenty of motorized trails for us to ride (which is total crap - nearest one to me is an hour away, whereas I have hundreds of awesome singletrack trails within riding distance). Besides, no one wants to breathe raw and burnt hydrocarbons when we're huffing up hills.

Wow, this sucks, given that most emtb'rs are also mountain bikers, I would hope everyone joined and expressed their opinions to the NEMBA...

 

[Jamsxr]

These MTB riders who have a vendetta against eBikes really need to get a life, or try an eBike. My eBike has resulted in me reducing congestion on my local trails as I’m going further and wider than I did on my conventional bike, I’m also spending less time doing the same trials!

I’m an active and fit person and my eBike has provided me with the most fun I’ve ever experienced. If they took this attitude in the UK I would be rioting in the streets ?

 

[grantini]

Well I'm supposed to go to Vermont this weekend to ride with my son, and I just checked the rules on NEMBA site and it tells me that Vermont is essentially closed to ebikes, so... do I ride and feign ignorance if caught OR do I go somewhere else with my money and support another state's economy?

 

[JimBo]

Wow, this sucks, given that most emtb'rs are also mountain bikers, I would hope everyone joined and expressed their opinions to the NEMBA...

I've been riding eMTBs on singletrack here for 3+ years, for thousands of hours, and other than folks riding with me, have yet to encounter another eMTB on trails. I've offered dozens of MTBers a spin uphill on mine, and more than half refuse. On the flipside, none have ever told me to get off the trails...

 

[JimBo]

Well I'm supposed to go to Vermont this weekend to ride with my son, and I just checked the rules on NEMBA site and it tells me that Vermont is essentially closed to ebikes, so... do I ride and feign ignorance if caught OR do I go somewhere else with my money and support another state's economy?

As of now, no New England state has officially "legalized" ebikes on state owned dirt trails. I believe the closest state that has is Pennsylvania, according to People for Bikes.

 

[grantini]

We live in DE and occasionally ride in PA which is all good so far... I'm going to just ride in VT with a piece of electrical tape over my display.

 

[grantini]

From People For Bikes website for VT: » STATE: Vermont State Parks does not currently have an eMTB policy. Contact the department for the most up to date information. PeopleForBikes is monitoring this policy and will update this document as needed.

From the NEMTB site: Vermont’s Department of Forests, Parks and Recreation regards e-MTBs as a category of motorized All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) and allows them only on trails designated for ATVs. Currently there are no State Park trails open to ATVs. ATVs, including e-MTBs, are allowed on frozen bodies of public water.

Clearly conflicting information, it appears that NEMTB is trying to create or direct the interpretation of the law or lack thereof in VT.

 

[HikerDave]

The main eMTB oppo here has come from New England Mtn Bike Assn (NEMBA), and most of the objectors won't even try riding one. For the past five years, NEMBA has been on an all-out anti-eMTB campaign, culminating in April '18 with a BS-filled letter to New England bike dealers. The gist of it was that, if you sell eMTBs, you must tell buyers that they can only ride them on motorized (ATV/dirtbike) trails.

Last year, Connecticut passed the 3-class ebike law classifying 20 mph pedal assist bikes as bicycles. Thanks to state officials hearing only from NEMBA on the matter, however, CT made an exception for natural surface trails and now ebikes are not allowed to ride park & forest dirt trails. Now, the same thing is happening here in Massachusetts.

Because of NEMBA's persistent shaming of eMTB adopters and sellers, ebikes have been slow to catch on among MTBers hereabouts (precious few shops carry demo eMTBs). NEMBA also argues that there are plenty of motorized trails for us to ride (which is total crap - nearest one to me is an hour away, whereas I have hundreds of awesome singletrack trails within riding distance). Besides, no one wants to breathe raw and burnt hydrocarbons when we're huffing up hills.

Born in Massachusetts, I feel your pain. Lots of good times in a beautiful place. We lived in an old stage house, no longer existing, about a mile from Haydenville; plenty of woods for kids to explore and a nice stream for fishing.

It’s tough to read about the selfishness of the mountain bikers in the area, especially knowing that many will age out and eventually want their own eBikes.

 

[nickB]

It's a shame that even in SoCal it seems the most anti EBike people are other mountain bikers! Most of the backcountry trails around the central California coast hardly have any bikers on them - I ride for hours and maybe see 2 or 3 bikers. A lot of them are afraid that ALL bikers will get banned from trails and that Ebikes are just adding to the problem. In fact we should all be together in supporting mountain biking trails and access.
I have had a very "off the record" chat with a Forrest Ranger - he said he would not hassle a Class 1 ebiker UNLESS they were riding recklessly, had complaints from other trail users, or if there was a large group of ebikers. He also mentioned that it is a good idea to have a stealthy bike (internal battery/no display, etc. - Yay for my Levo!) and when riding past hikers or other bikers, turn of the power so there is no noise! Ride during the week if possible when less people are around.
The only bikers he has had to deal with were hunters on fat bikes with throttles - obviously these should only use the motorized dirt roads.
Unfortunately California has a large and loud membership of the Sierra Club who would like to ban ALL access to forrest and wild areas! I am a mountaineer and used to be a member many years ago, but like a lot of these groups they have become too political and/or radical and too narrow minded!

 

[JimBo]

It's a shame that even in SoCal it seems the most anti EBike people are other mountain bikers! Most of the backcountry trails around the central California coast hardly have any bikers on them - I ride for hours and maybe see 2 or 3 bikers. A lot of them are afraid that ALL bikers will get banned from trails and that Ebikes are just adding to the problem. In fact we should all be together in supporting mountain biking trails and access.
I have had a very "off the record" chat with a Forrest Ranger - he said he would not hassle a Class 1 ebiker UNLESS they were riding recklessly, had complaints from other trail users, or if there was a large group of ebikers. He also mentioned that it is a good idea to have a stealthy bike (internal battery/no display, etc. - Yay for my Levo!) and when riding past hikers or other bikers, turn of the power so there is no noise! Ride during the week if possible when less people are around.
The only bikers he has had to deal with were hunters on fat bikes with throttles - obviously these should only use the motorized dirt roads.
Unfortunately California has a large and loud membership of the Sierra Club who would like to ban ALL access to forrest and wild areas! I am a mountaineer and used to be a member many years ago, but like a lot of these groups they have become too political and/or radical and too narrow minded!

Wow! You nailed it, man. When I first started eMTBing 4 years ago, I deliberately approached a Ranger in my backyard state park and had a similar conversation.

But NEMBA has forced the issue by convincing relevant state officials that eMTBs should only be allowed on motorized trails - no exceptions. I'd love to work with them on stewardship and advocacy, but they're so far out on the extreme I can't see a middle ground.

Try reading this ridiculous post and tell me how to try banding together with them: NEMBA Guidance to Land Managers regarding the Electric, Power-Assist Bikes on Trails
Here's a quote:

• E-bikes use electric motors to propel the bike and are de facto motorized bikes. It does not matter that they are power-assisted or that their throttle is controlled by pedaling. E-bikes are motorized and should be managed as such. E-bikes are “motorbikes.”

It's too bad they can't see just how much their reactions to ebikes parallels how Sierra Clubbers respond to MTBs. Accepting ebikes could probably double their membership!

 

[grantini]

My suggestion would be that ALL Ebikers in New England join the NEMBA and start to show up for meetings and run for office... I'm guessing there is a handful of jerks that run everything and dominate the agenda. OR as an alternative, form a new NEMBA (New England Mountain Bicyclists Association? LOL) and campaign hard for members. Wrest some financial support from the industry and then work to get on the agendas in the states and counties involved.

 

[HORSPWR]

Fark!
Jeez they all sound like a bunch of ill informed, self absorbed wankers!
I'm glad that where I live we are all welcomed.

 

[HORSPWR]

Wow! You nailed it, man. When I first started eMTBing 4 years ago, I deliberately approached a Ranger in my backyard state park and had a similar conversation.

But NEMBA has forced the issue by convincing relevant state officials that eMTBs should only be allowed on motorized trails - no exceptions. I'd love to work with them on stewardship and advocacy, but they're so far out on the extreme I can't see a middle ground.

Try reading this ridiculous post and tell me how to try banding together with them: NEMBA Guidance to Land Managers regarding the Electric, Power-Assist Bikes on Trails
Here's a quote:

• E-bikes use electric motors to propel the bike and are de facto motorized bikes. It does not matter that they are power-assisted or that their throttle is controlled by pedaling. E-bikes are motorized and should be managed as such. E-bikes are “motorbikes.”

It's too bad they can't see just how much their reactions to ebikes parallels how Sierra Clubbers respond to MTBs. Accepting ebikes could probably double their membership!

This says it all, bunch of retards:

Class 1 e-bikes have a maximum speed of 20 MPG