Levo Gen 2 Loud creak caused by bad link bearings (video) (fixed!)

[RebornRider]

I'm editing the title and first post to maybe help futures searchers. A long ride today confirmed that the creak heard in the video below was caused by nearly seized link bearings.

This creak started about a month ago. It happens when coasting, pedaling, standing, seated, no-hands, hands on bars. It starts after about 20 minutes of riding. It starts out soft, then gets progressively louder (and way more annoying!) the longer I ride.

I thought it might be the motor rubbing on the carbon frame, so I removed it, cleaned it, and super-carefully reinstalled it with grease on every interface. Didn't change the creak.

In the video below the headset is very loose, the TCU is removed and all slack wire pulled out, and the battery is removed. The creak you hear is the same as the creak I get while riding.

Have you had a creak coming from the middle of the bike that sounds like this? What do you think might be causing it?

 

[sp00n]

Quite possibly the bearings.
When installing my new motor on my Kenevo I noticed that the bearings in the lower link were almost seized up after 5000km and one year of riding. And I never used a pressure washer to clean the bike.
Another thing that's often overlooked is the derailleur, which can creak too, due to the chain tensioning up and pedal kickback when compressing the rear shock.

 

[Mikerb]

Thats not a creak! The "click" happens both on shock compression and return. I would suspect the shock as the source but to differentiate between the shock and the rear triangle pivots I suggest your next step should be to remove the shock and then lever the rear triangle up and down. If the noise persists it is a collapsed pivot bearing, if there is no noise, the source is the shock.

A shortcut would be to get a short length of copper or plastic pipe to use as a stethoscope. Get someone else to compress and release the bike whilst you position the stethoscope first on the shock and then near each pivot bearing. You may be a ble to hear a marked difference in volume of the noise.

 

[RebornRider]

I just finished replacing the EXT coil with the original RockShox air, and the noise is still there as loud as ever. I bought a replacement bearing set last year, so the next step is to replace the bearings in the link. I wonder where I put them ...

 

[RebornRider]

It's not the headset. The headset was very loose in the video I posted above.

I'm almost 100% certain it was the link bearings. Only a couple of them were free rotating, two of them rotated but were crunchy, and one of them was *very* hard to rotate at all. I'll know for sure after everything is reassembled. In any case, the link bearings were way past their best-by date.

 

[Mikerb]

I read quite a few posts about linkage and pivot bearing problems....something I have never experienced on any of my bikes. So I wondered what maintenance and/or cleaning processes people use.
I only use brushes and a bowl of water and damp rag when cleaning the bike and first job is using a stiff brush and thin rag to clean around those bearings. When the bike is clean I drip a little wet lube into the gaps between linkages and frame members as well as the dropper post, fork stanchions and shock shaft......wiping all clean after depressing fork shock and dropper.

 

[sp00n]

I read quite a few posts about linkage and pivot bearing problems....something I have never experienced on any of my bikes. So I wondered what maintenance and/or cleaning processes people use.
I only use brushes and a bowl of water and damp rag when cleaning the bike and first job is using a stiff brush and thin rag to clean around those bearings. When the bike is clean I drip a little wet lube into the gaps between linkages and frame members as well as the dropper post, fork stanchions and shock shaft......wiping all clean after depressing fork shock and dropper.

We can have very muddy autumns, winters & springs here, and during the wet season I'm using a watering can and a brush at the gas station right at the foot of the hill I'm riding. No pressure washer.
After that I always dry the places around the bearings (and the chain) with paper towels. And still the bearings seemed to be at the end of their live span after one year, probably earlier. I have no creaking yet, I just noticed that they run very rough when I re-installed the motor.

During the summer I only use a cloth to wipe off the dust.

I've ordered a replacement kit, I'll probably open them up and check if there's enough grease to begin with before replacing the bearings.

 

[Mikerb]

Sealed bearings for slow moving areas like pivots and linkages have contact seals both sides.....more friction but better seal so I would not disturb them. Do you use a rear mudguard that shields the linkage and pivot bearings.. and shock?

 

[Expidia]

Ha! Great vid. My Trek Powerfly is only a month old and it is generated that same crackling noise as in your vid. I'm actually bringing the bike over to my son's house today so I can sit on the bike and replicate the noise. My guess is the noise is coming from the rear Rockshox's upper eyelet that has a plastic bushing (not rubber) and is fit in very tiightly as another poster mentioned in a thread I started last week.

I've never slogged it through wet mud.

I'll have my son pin point where the noise might be emanating from with this auto stethoscope. In my case, I'm under warranty, so I'll leave it at a Trek store at the end of my biking season if it something I can't tighten or replace myself. . . . vid of noise in link below:

Update: Ya , my son figured it out tonight. It was two loose screws under the back of the seat that hold it tight to the rails. I never knew they were under there! When these bikes come into the stores they are partially unassembled and they probably have kids putting them together. No more clicking noises now
https://youtu.be/YWXzJT9TQ3E

 

[Expidia]

Also, the forum at the bottom linked a similar frame noise thread and his solution for his particular frame noise: [Solved] Help diagnosing rearend creaking - EMTB Forums

 

[RebornRider]

Removing the rear seat stay bearings was a right bugger! There are two bearings at each pivot point, pressed in from opposite sides. The two bearings are separated by a ridge. This means you can't use a bearing press to push them out the easy way. There is also a washer between the pair of bearings that sits inside the ridge and fills the gap between the inner races. That makes it very hard to use a punch to push on the inner race. Hard, but not impossible.

My seat stay is alumin(i)um, so I held it using soft jaws in my bench vice. I don't know how you'd get the bearings out of a carbon seat stay. I'd be pretty nervous about clamping a carbon tube in a vice. Maybe they use a different bearing arrangement?

 

[RebornRider]

Sealed bearings for slow moving areas like pivots and linkages have contact seals both sides.....more friction but better seal so I would not disturb them. Do you use a rear mudguard that shields the linkage and pivot bearings.. and shock?

You can see the mud guard I use in the video. I'm not aware of a product that is wide enough to shield the link bearings. That said, *very* few of my rides involve mud or rain. It doesn't rain much where I live.

There was also a question about washing. I wash the bike using a bucket of Dawn in warm water, a soft bristle brush for the crevices, and a small towel for the frame and fork. And a Park Tool CM-25 for the chain (the Cyclone broke). I rinse the soap off with a garden hose. I use compressed air (after *every* wash) to blow all the nooks and crannies (and the battery connector) dry.

 

[sp00n]

Sealed bearings for slow moving areas like pivots and linkages have contact seals both sides.....more friction but better seal so I would not disturb them. Do you use a rear mudguard that shields the linkage and pivot bearings.. and shock?

Yeah, I have a rear mud guard that covers the linkage and shock area. It does keep the muck away a bit, but of course not all of it.

And the thing is, if the original bearings are already done after one year, their sealing don't seem to have been that good to begin with for the terrain I'm riding in. And adding more grease might be beneficial in that case, even if it slightly deforms the seal.
And if not, they'll probably just be done after one year again.

I've also considered to buy this "Blueseal" bearing kit, which apparently has a good amount of grease inside, but I found a pretty good deal for the original Speacialized bearing replacement kit for the Kenevo, for about half that price, so I went with that one instead.
I also looked into Enduro bearings, which I had for my Banshee Rune, but those are pretty expensive for the bearings required for the Kenevo (10x 6801 for 6€ each + 2x 6901 for 7€ each).

My seat stay is alumin(i)um, so I held it using soft jaws in my bench vice. I don't know how you'd get the bearings out of a carbon seat stay. I'd be pretty nervous about clamping a carbon tube in a vice. Maybe they use a different bearing arrangement?

Use a slide hammer to extract the bearings. The bearings are probably too damaged to use afterwards, but if you intend to replace them anyway, that's no big deal.

 

[RebornRider]

Use a slide hammer to extract the bearings. The bearings are probably too damaged to use afterwards, but if you intend to replace them anyway, that's no big deal.

I tried my slide hammer, but I could not get it to grab the inner race. The spacer they put between the inner races means that there is no lip for the expanding bit to grab on to. If you've had success with a slide hammer, I'd like to see a picture of it.

 

[Mikerb]

Yeah, I have a rear mud guard that covers the linkage and shock area. It does keep the muck away a bit, but of course not all of it.

And the thing is, if the original bearings are already done after one year, their sealing don't seem to have been that good to begin with for the terrain I'm riding in. And adding more grease might be beneficial in that case, even if it slightly deforms the seal.
And if not, they'll probably just be done after one year again.

I've also considered to buy this "Blueseal" bearing kit, which apparently has a good amount of grease inside, but I found a pretty good deal for the original Speacialized bearing replacement kit for the Kenevo, for about half that price, so I went with that one instead.
I also looked into Enduro bearings, which I had for my Banshee Rune, but those are pretty expensive for the bearings required for the Kenevo (10x 6801 for 6€ each + 2x 6901 for 7€ each).




Use a slide hammer to extract the bearings. The bearings are probably too damaged to use afterwards, but if you intend to replace them anyway, that's no big deal.

I dont know if Specialized have changed bearings supplier and when I had a my2019 Levo Comp never needed to work on pivot or linkage bearings, but the bearings in the rear hub and freehub were rubbish and I changed all 4 after a year of riding. Im afraid you get what you pay for with bearings. I replaced all the bearing with Enduro bearings and did not have to change them again. The originals were branded "Zero" I think..pretty apt!!

 

[sp00n]

I tried my slide hammer, but I could not get it to grab the inner race. The spacer they put between the inner races means that there is no lip for the expanding bit to grab on to. If you've had success with a slide hammer, I'd like to see a picture of it.

View attachment 95899

I'll try my luck once my bearing kit arrives, hopefully next week or so.
If the slide hammer fails, there seems to be a special custom tool available as well:

Pardon our interruption...

 

[RebornRider]

I'll try my luck once my bearing kit arrives, hopefully next week or so.
If the slide hammer fails, there seems to be a special custom tool available as well:

Pardon our interruption...

That custom tool looks like it has a chance. There will be a lot of contact area between the tool and the inner race. Maybe that will generate enough friction to prevent the tool from sliding out of the bearing.

I hope the tool itself isn't made of chocolate! The bearing press I bought seems to be. I recommend against it!

 

[RebornRider]

VICTORY!!!! (tentatively) I can't reproduce the creak in the garage. Tomorrow's ride will be the proof, one way or the other.

I pulled the seals off the nearly-frozen bearing for a closeup inspection. It looks to me like grit got past the seals and between the balls and the races. I worked the bearing CW and CCW until it loosened up. It sounded and felt very gritty. I didn't see any signs of corrosion.

 

[RebornRider]

I finally got the chance to do a 21 mile ride today with lots washboard and a few hucks to flat. The creak heard in my video in post #1 is gone.

 

[sp00n]

I tried my slide hammer, but I could not get it to grab the inner race. The spacer they put between the inner races means that there is no lip for the expanding bit to grab on to. If you've had success with a slide hammer, I'd like to see a picture of it.

View attachment 95899

So I finally received the bearings (the one I initially ordered was sold out, so I got the Enduro bearings instead).
The bearings on the seat stay are indeed a true PITA, but I was still able to remove them with my bearing puller / slide hammer.

You have to generate enough expanding force so that it can find grip on the inner ring of the bearing, much like the dedicated tool I linked to above would. You cannot go through all the way and grab the bearing at its end, due to the spacer you mentioned. I used two wrenches to really screw down the expanding bit of the slide hammer to achieve this amount of expanding force (the more you screw it down, the more it expands, for those who haven't worked with a slide hammer yet).

There's a chance that you will slightly damage/scratch the spacer between the two bearings this way, but as far as I could tell this spacer is only there to fill up the empty space and has no real functional meaning.

No photos though, sorry. You wouldn't be able to see much there anyway.

 

[lumpy]

I've got a similar creak on my Levo and I'm in the process of replacing all the bearings. I got my tools from Bearing Pro Tools

 

[Alexbn921]

Get japanese bearings. I replaced all mine with NSK and they are a order of magnitude better than stock or Enduro bearings. There is virtually no side play and they are Soo smooth. I expect the to last 10x as long as stock.

 

[Mikerb]

In general you get what you pay for with bearings. Checking ABEC/ANSi/ISO standard can help together with identification of materials used.
Regardless of bearing quality all bearings are designed to take either radial or thrust loads but not both. Pivot bearings are designed to take radial loads so expect higher wear if you are into whips and schralping!!

 

[RebornRider]

Possibly important update! The creak returned on my ride yesterday. Today I removed the link and found that all 6 bearings rotated freely and smoothly (as they should - they're almost new!). I used my bearing press to make sure all of 6 bearings were as fully seated and square as I could make them. Then I cleaned all the bits and reassembled with Locktite 242 and torque wrench.

The very loud creak is gone again! I'm posting this update to say that the creak with good bearings was just as loud and horrible sounding as the creak with frozen bearings.

I also want to add that just bouncing on the bike was not sufficient to generate the creak. In the garage, I had to lock both brakes and then push and pull on the handlebar quite hard. Similarly, I didn't hear the creak on tamer bits of trail, but did on the rougher bits.

 

[sp00n]

It may have (also) been dirt this time. I had a very unnerving creaking coming from my headset when enough dust had accumulated over the summer months and mixed with the grease. The bearings themselves were perfectly fine, yet it sounded like they were completely gone (or loose),