Lots of Rough miles and Hands "aching"

[Mrj35]

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

heavy feet light hands. try to focus on using your legs more as suspension. it should take some pressure off your hands.

 

[Mrj35]

How can "correct bar width" be determined?

You can ride a very wide range of bar widths but if its too wide you will notice nagging should issues over the long term and it puts you in a weaker position. We used to ride 580mm handlebars for freeriding and no one even thought about bar width, we were more hoping the bar was thick enough so that we wouldnt snap it in half lol.

 

[Sherman]

What is the reach on your old bike and what is the reach on your new bike? Inches or cm.

Reach isn’t everything. For seated position you need to have a look at the good old effective top tube measurement.

 

[irie]

Reach isn’t everything. For seated position you need to have a look at the good old effective top tube measurement.

Which is why I earlier said:

You can measure stuff ad infinitum, but @Wildman13 has another bike ("my old Patrol") so, assuming that is comfortable for him, (IMO) he would be best advised to set the new bike up using his old bike as a starting point.

 

[rod9301]

You should not have a lot or any weight on your hands. Use your core to support your weight.

 

[rod9301]

And absorb with your arms instead of the suspension. Legs of course too.

Or a coil fork.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

So much focus on handlebars.

What fork have you got and what are your settings? If its an air fork, running the pressure too high or too low will give you sore hands. Low pressure and loads of volume spacers is the worst thing you can do. Similarly if you've got too much high speed damping or too much rebound damping then that can lead to sore hands too.

You say you like a wide bar, so do I. Narrower bars ride better for me though. Wide is fine when I sit on the bike but cutting them down made the bike much more comfortable to ride.

 

[Onetime]

I would try higher rise, narrower bars, shorter stem and smaller diameter grips. You need a more upright riding position with less reach to take weight off your hands and smaller diameter grips will be easier for your smaller hands to grip.

 

[Gavalar]

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

I had a similar problem, different bike, I opted for PNW's Loam Bar, 38 rise, no more hand fatigue or arm pump.

 

[darwink1]

This'll only work if you like fat grips but they do make thinner models of the foam ones and you don't need to incorporate the lock on...

I peeled the rubber off of a set of sdg lock ons then slid a pair of Wolftooth fat paw foamies over them. In conjunction with a oneup carbon bar the numbness has gone away.

D

 

[Downhillr]

Imagine you go for a long hike (all day) or you just get a super good workout (however) and your body aches.

Its mostly in my fingers, not palms and not numbness. The bike weight 45 lbs with pedals and contis so it's a lot of weight to move around underneath me. We've been doing a ton of riding and on ALL the rides I'm always riding super aggressive. That doesn't mean super huge it just means, as fast as possible a lot and manuals, bunny hops, jumps etc. every time I do these things I'm having to grip the bar tighter than a "loose grip" because I'm actively engaging the bike. This is a lot of strain on my hands/fingers. Its 100% due to the amount of use but I'm hoping that by moving the bar closer to me or changing the angle I can reduce that strain. The reach is much further on this bike so the amount of energy i need to use to move that front end is more than my old bike due to this 1 factor alone. then add in the extra weight, I have more energy so more aggressive etc.

Just trying to see if anyone else has experienced this issue before I got by a whole new set up to experiment with

Pretty sure folks will offer various suggestions but hard to say what applies to one person applies to next.
SC bikes in general have bit shorter reach than many others so first off hope you're on right size for your height/leg/arm length.
Cutting bars down a little, try widths like @790,780 which brings your hands closer, weight up and rearward a tad. (I took some older grips I could cut end off to change positions before actually cutting bar).
OneUp Components carbon
e-bar is more vertically compliant on trail chatter and I believe has bit more rise too.
Im 6’2” with long arms (wife says “Neanderthal”) and cut my OneUp bar to790mm. I also repositioned brake levers a few times and switched to MTX Gold pads (stronger, less fade) since my Bullit overpowers stock brakes and I find the strain after a long day riding/braking/gripping causes some hand ache.
Good luck!

 

[RickBullotta]

I did an XC race (on my Amish bike) yesterday at one of the rockier places in our area. My hands would usually be beat up after an event like that, but I made one change recently that seems to have made a huge difference - I swapped out my fork for a new Fox 36 with the Grip X2 (not Grip 2) cartridge. Much better small bump and big bump behavior. It's not really necessary to swap the fork out though if you wait a couple months for upgrade cartridges. Anyway, it made a noticeable difference.

 

[Montana St Alum]

If you have grips that can slide inward, move them in and experiment with different widths. Also, take a look at saddle position and see if front to back position and tilt make a difference. If you can find someone with bars that have more sweep, that would be nice to try. While it's true that we all need recovery time from exercise, you shouldn't be experiencing this much specific pain unless there's damage to the bones, ligaments or tendons. If you think that might be the problem, seeing a doctor wouldn't be a bad idea.

 

[gmoss]

I did an XC race (on my Amish bike) yesterday at one of the rockier places in our area. My hands would usually be beat up after an event like that, but I made one change recently that seems to have made a huge difference - I swapped out my fork for a new Fox 36 with the Grip X2 (not Grip 2) cartridge. Much better small bump and big bump behavior. It's not really necessary to swap the fork out though if you wait a couple months for upgrade cartridges. Anyway, it made a noticeable difference.

After reading thru this thread, this is what I was looking for or was going to post. Recently got my new Fuel EXE. Rode it once stock for a shakedown of what I liked and what was getting replaced. At 55, deal with somw aches, arthritis type hand pain and I havw become very sensitive to set up. My cockpit setup has been my go to for several years. So, after that first ride, I was beat to death shoulders and hands killed me. I got right to swapping parts. The biggest factors in aches is contact point and susp. Got to get the fork sorted first. My Fox 36 is dialed and it made a HUGE difference in that bike. The bars on the Fuel were a combo stem/bar in carbon so I could not adjust, ditched them for my trusty I9/Renthal Carbon Lite 35's. Next ride was worlds different and was back to what I was used to on my other bike.

I don't really put a lot of thought into measurements. I moved my parts from my Reeb SST to trh Fuel, and run similar set up on my Hightower LT, though it has a 60mm stem vs 50. I am comfortable on all of them with the same bars and fork. I run thinner grips on the HTLT as well. They havw not bothered me. Susp is key for me, and making sure my pressure is set each ride seems to be more important than clicker settings.

My Fuel was unrideable for me when I got it. Now its as comfortable as any bike I have had.

As far as bar width, find your most comfortable position for doing a push up, this is where you will likely be most comfortable for bar width.

 

[mike_kelly]

I second the SQ Labs 30x and raise the SQ Lab grips.

 

[gmoss]

This'll only work if you like fat grips but they do make thinner models of the foam ones and you don't need to incorporate the lock on...

I peeled the rubber off of a set of sdg lock ons then slid a pair of Wolftooth fat paw foamies over them. In conjunction with a oneup carbon bar the numbness has gone away.

View attachment 140077 View attachment 140078

D

Interesting solution to a problem that keeps me from running foam grips anymore. They are one and done for going on, coming off. Like what ya did there.

 

[socal 2024]

reviving an old comment @RickBullotta posted above. I just picked up a 2023 Orbea Rise M10. I know nothing about fork set, as my analog seemed to be OK. But I went for a ride yesterday (on my favorite trail that I plan to ride often) and I was getting bounced all over the place on a pretty jittery? bumpy (ripples?) downhill. There are a few similar fast downhills like this on this trail. Like almost bucked off it felt like. It seems my fork needs some tuning. Fox36 Grip2 150mm. Too many settings for me to wrap my head around. Sag, compression, LS/HS rebound - ugh. Any advice on what setting I need to fiddle with? Thanks for your help.

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Open the HSC and LsC right up (anticlockwise).

Open up the rebound.

Add enough air to get about 25% sag. Don't pay any further attention to sag.

Go ride.

If you use too much travel, add some air. If you don't use enough travel, drop some few PSI at at a time until you're using an appropriate amount of travel for what your riding.

Dont worry about using all the travel if the fork feels good. It's there to be used.

Once you're happy that the air spring is set up for you. Add enough rebound that you don't ping off everything (unless that's your thing).

Then (and only then) add some HSC or LSC as you see fit.

HSC/LCS will affect the entire stroke of the fork. LSC supports your weight, HSC resists fast movements. Adding too much of either will make the fork harsh.

If adding damping makes things feel worse, wind the adjuster back out to where it was.

Ignore how the bike feels bouncing around the garden/ carpark. It's irrelevant, you need to ride properly to get a feel for it.

I can pretty much bottom my Mezzer out bouncing up and down on it but it feels excellent on the trail.

Adjust one thing at a time. Ride a few trails to properly gauge the adjustment. Getting it set up properly is a commitment in time and effort. Once you got it nailed though, it'll be worth it.

 

[socal 2024]

Open the HSC and LsC right up (anticlockwise).

Open up the rebound.

Add enough air to get about 25% sag. Don't pay any further attention to sag.

Go ride.

If you use too much travel, add some air. If you don't use enough travel, drop some few PSI at at a time until you're using an appropriate amount of travel for what your riding.

Dont worry about using all the travel if the fork feels good. It's there to be used.

Once you're happy that the air spring is set up for you. Add enough rebound that you don't ping off everything (unless that's your thing).

Then (and only then) add some HSC or LSC as you see fit.

HSC/LCS will affect the entire stroke of the fork. LSC supports your weight, HSC resists fast movements. Adding too much of either will make the fork harsh.

If adding damping makes things feel worse, wind the adjuster back out to where it was.

Ignore how the bike feels bouncing around the garden/ carpark. It's irrelevant, you need to ride properly to get a feel for it.

I can pretty much bottom my Mezzer out bouncing up and down on it but it feels excellent on the trail.

Adjust one thing at a time. Ride a few trails to properly gauge the adjustment. Getting it set up properly is a commitment in time and effort. Once you got it nailed though, it'll be worth it.

Thank you so much for this. I will use these settings you suggest. I am totally lost so I appreciate your insight. Any similar suggestions for the shock: Fox float X (2-pos)?? The only thing i set on that was the 30% sag -- spun the other dials to who-knows-what, likely crappy settings for me too!

 

[jrfrnk]

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

I had similar problems..not so much the numbness but the aching. My tero is a forward leaning setup..I chose a softer rubber with deep grooving and it helped immensely. Als9 a good pair of padded riding gloves further quelched the issue.

You can also try body hardening, like in martial arts. When your watching tv, take a wooden dowel rod and lightly beat the palms of your hands. When they get used to it, increase the intensity at which you do this. Eventually, your hands will be tough as nails.

I might add that anti infamitorys are also a good option. Research the foods and beverages to put inyour body, and try to consume more anti inlamitory things. This will certainly help with the pain!

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thank you so much for this. I will use these settings you suggest. I am totally lost so I appreciate your insight. Any similar suggestions for the shock: Fox float X (2-pos)?? The only thing i set on that was the 30% sag -- spun the other dials to who-knows-what, likely crappy settings for me too!

Same process for the rear really. Set the spring rate first and then add damping to suit what you're riding. I've got a Float X too and there isn't all that much to fiddle with. The blue dial is low speed compression.

The Rise pedals fairly well so I usually only have a couple of clicks from open on mine. I'll add some more if I'm riding berms or whatever but mostly I just leave it alone.

Play around with the air pressures first on the fork and the shock. I'd do them at the same time because bit only do you want to make them feel good individually, they also need to be balanced to one another so the bike feels the same front and rear. If anything, maybe add a little more rebound to the rear while you're experimenting.

You've also got the option for volume spacers in the fork and the shock but I'd only start playing with these once you're certain that the fork or shock doesn't behave how you want it. Volume spacers only affect the very end of the stroke so get the sensitivity and mid stroke sorted first.

 

[John_likes_bikes]

You mentioned the pain is mostly in your fingers and I don't think anyone mentioned addressing brakes and levers.

Again, a lot of this is trial and error but something to think about.

- Is your lever angle in line with your arm during the times you're braking the most? This will put your hand/fingers in as natural and powerful of a position as possible during heavy braking.

- Can you adjust lever reach and bite point? I try to have my levers engage as close to the handle bar as possible. Again, natural and strong.

- Do your brakes/pads/rotors need any attention? If they're not working as they should it'll require more effort than needed. If they are up to snuff, are they adequate for your needs?

This guy knows a thing or two... I found it helpful:

 

[socal 2024]

Same process for the rear really. Set the spring rate first and then add damping to suit what you're riding. I've got a Float X too and there isn't all that much to fiddle with. The blue dial is low speed compression.

The Rise pedals fairly well so I usually only have a couple of clicks from open on mine. I'll add some more if I'm riding berms or whatever but mostly I just leave it alone.

Play around with the air pressures first on the fork and the shock. I'd do them at the same time because bit only do you want to make them feel good individually, they also need to be balanced to one another so the bike feels the same front and rear. If anything, maybe add a little more rebound to the rear while you're experimenting.

You've also got the option for volume spacers in the fork and the shock but I'd only start playing with these once you're certain that the fork or shock doesn't behave how you want it. Volume spacers only affect the very end of the stroke so get the sensitivity and mid stroke sorted first.

Thanks again!! The shock had two orange volume spacers in it, and I took one out. Probably another mistake. I guess I should put that back in since I have no idea what happened when I took it out. Clearly, I have a lot to learn. Bouncing around in the garage and spinning dials. pumping air, letting it out, etc. was a disaster. I'll make these adjustments (including adding back that second spacer). I'll pop back in here and let you know how it worked out

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

Thanks again!! The shock had two orange volume spacers in it, and I took one out. Probably another mistake. I guess I should put that back in since I have no idea what happened when I took it out. Clearly, I have a lot to learn. Bouncing around in the garage and spinning dials. pumping air, letting it out, etc. was a disaster. I'll make these adjustments (including adding back that second spacer). I'll pop back in here and let you know how it worked out

Where were the orange spacers? The volume spacers in the main (positive) chamber are one piece. It clips into the top of the main chamber (at the end where the piggy back is). You get different sizes rather than adding several of the same size.

There's a stroke reducing spacer that's held in place by countersunk screws. You defo don't want to remove that.

If the orange spacers were rubbery things that slid off the airshaft once you've removed the air can then those are negative spacers. I know the DPS has those but I'm not sure about the Float X. Mine didn't have any but it was aftermarket rather than the original Orbea version.

 

[socal 2024]

Where were the orange spacers? The volume spacers in the main (positive) chamber are one piece. It clips into the top of the main chamber (at the end where the piggy back is). You get different sizes rather than adding several of the same size.

There's a stroke reducing spacer that's held in place by countersunk screws. You defo don't want to remove that.

If the orange spacers were rubbery things that slid off the airshaft once you've removed the air can then those are negative spacers. I know the DPS has those but I'm not sure about the Float X. Mine didn't have any but it was aftermarket rather than the original Orbea version.

The orange spacer thing I removed was in the fork chamber -- just under the cap that seals the air chamber (it has the schrader valve to pump the air on top of it -- under the blue screw cap). Originally (probably from the factory I'm guessing since I bought the bike newly built from Jenson), there were two spacers in the champer - they sort of clip together by sliding together. Honestly, I am not even sure what their purpose is :|. I suppose it is to reduce air capacity, increase pressure in the chamber, make the fork less squishy? No clue :|

Description on amazon is this, I can't seem to insert the link....:

Fox Racing Shox Float Volume Spacer 36 Float Fs, Ps-E, Ps, 5 Pack​

 

[theremotejuggernaut]

The orange spacer thing I removed was in the fork chamber -- just under the cap that seals the air chamber (it has the schrader valve to pump the air on top of it -- under the blue screw cap). Originally (probably from the factory I'm guessing since I bought the bike newly built from Jenson), there were two spacers in the champer - they sort of clip together by sliding together. Honestly, I am not even sure what their purpose is :|. I suppose it is to reduce air capacity, increase pressure in the chamber, make the fork less squishy? No clue :|

Description on amazon is this, I can't seem to insert the link....:

Fox Racing Shox Float Volume Spacer 36 Float Fs, Ps-E, Ps, 5 Pack​

Ah, cool. I thought you meant it was in the shock.

They reduce the air volume which makes the spring more progressive. It affects the last bit of travel. They can be helpful if you find your bottoming out to often. Generally, heavier riders benefit more from them than lighter riders but there's an element of personal preference too.

 

[Downhillr]

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

I found the OneUp Components e-bar

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

Both my son & I prefet the OneUp Components “e-bar” carbon handlebars over the stock Santa Cruz carbon bars. He’s 6’ tall using bars cut to 780mm, I’m 6’2”, 36” sleeve (spouse says Neanderthal) and ride bars at 790mm. We’ve recently been riding the new ODI Vanquish grips with D30 impact rubber (popularized in body armor) eating trail chatter and find both these changes along with the height/arm length bar widths have improved comfort.

 

[Montana St Alum]

Thanks again!! The shock had two orange volume spacers in it, and I took one out. Probably another mistake. I guess I should put that back in since I have no idea what happened when I took it out. Clearly, I have a lot to learn. Bouncing around in the garage and spinning dials. pumping air, letting it out, etc. was a disaster. I'll make these adjustments (including adding back that second spacer). I'll pop back in here and let you know how it worked out

If you're light, or don't take big hits, you can remove spacers, and it will soften up the ride considerably. I removed all of the spacers, front and back on my Elite 3 which has low end fork and shock. It was a huge improvement. I'm 150 pounds and run a low travel mountain bike in Moab, which is VERY chunky with no tokens and it's great. On average, most people really don't need them

 

[steve_sordy]

Incorrect handlebar back sweep can cause wrist pain as they will force your hands into an unnatural position, causing irritation to the radial or ulnar nerve, Easily spotted by aches/pains on the sides of the wrist.

So while a larger back swept bar will bring your reach closer, it may also cause more wrist pain.
You can roughly measure your resting wrist position with a stick or pencil to see if a larger back swept bar would be a benefit.
This video covers it well.


..................................

That is a great video clip. I did a rough approximation of their test using a couple of pencils and I think I'm OK, but I'll do a proper test after I get home.