Lots of Rough miles and Hands "aching"

[Wildman13]

Hey everyone. Wife and I got SC Heckler SLs 6 months ago and we have right at 1,000 miles on them (each). The Heckler SL in Medium has about 10mm more reach than my old Patrol. The bike feels MUCH bigger though than 10mm. Right away my hands were going numb from the weight forward. I rotated the bars and moved the seat up and that seemed to fix the "numbness". Fast forward to March-April, we spent 2 months 42 rides in Hurricane and Moab crushing slickrock. Slickrock is anything but smooth. Bombing down sections hitting every option I could find, manuals, drops, etc etc.

I am SOO much more active on the ebike vs my patrol as I'm always able to be in that top energy category so I'm constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me. I have smaller hands and prefer larger diameter grips in general. My hands started aching and it lasted at least the whole month of April. I mean after rides, in the evening watching TV, in the morning when I wake up etc. Its not a numbness but just aching...overuse maybe?

Buddy suggested the Ergon grips. put some on today and they made my hands NUMB right away, adjusted the position of them a few times and couldnt find a comfortable fit.

I have a 42mm stem on the bike and looking to go shorter as a solution but figured I'd ask if anyone has any other ideas or had the same thing happen to them with increased riding on an E-Bike from regular.

I run full 800s and love the wide bars, I believe the rise on them is 30mm as well.

 

[Polar]

I use 50mm rise cut from 800 to 780 with Ergon grip and seat which gave me much more comfort. It took some time to adjust everything to find my sweet spot especially the grips.

 

[Wildman13]

But we're your hands aching like mine? Are you moving the bike around a lot, etc? I appreciate the response but without any context of why you made those adjustments how will I know if it applies to me?

 

[Polar]

But we're your hands aching like mine? Are you moving the bike around a lot, etc? I appreciate the response but without any context of why you made those adjustments how will I know if it applies to me?

No I'm not moving the bike around a lot and I simply wasn't comfortable with the stock set up due to pressure on my arms and hands. The components gave me much less pressure on my wrist, palm and arms but it's impossible to know if it helps you since we all have different body geometry but the bar was the most important since it shifts the wait of your body backwards and I get the impression a lot of ppl prefer higher rise on their bar these days

 

[Plummet]

Try a different set of bars with different sweep.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome
I noticed you said you put the seat up
That will weight your hands up more so will wide bars as they make you lean forward more
You need to raise the bars too put your self more upright taking the weight off your hands and maybe move the grips in and controls to experiment with a 760 bar without cutting them that way if it doesn't work you can return them to where you are now
for me at least lifting the bars helped loads and running a slightly narrower bar .

 

[Tone461]

I've just put some Deity Supracrush grips on and they are really soft and grippy. Probably the most comfortable grips I've ever tried.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

When you say your hands are aching where exactly do you mean?

 

[RustyIron]

2 months 42 rides

constantly hitting everything which means I'm using my hands a ton more to more the bike around under me.

Have you considered that the cause of your discomfort is overuse and that you need more time to recover?

 

[Ark]

My whyte bike came with grips that hurt my hands. after 10miles I would constantly seek a different position on the grips.. my hands would feel funny even after riding for awhile.
I was scared of getting carpal tunnel syndrome, switching to ergon wing grips made it all go away

 

[Wildman13]

Try a different set of bars with different sweep.

Yeah my buddy suggested a big sweep backwards. I'm currently waiting on an answer back from SC about what exact bars I have on my bike because. Meaning are they the Burgtec I find online (but dont match exactly what they look like) or some OEM only product Burgtec makes for them that has mysterious stats no one can find, lol. I was gonna shorten the stem from a 42.5 to 32 or 35 but came across an article on "the Lost co" that shortening stem to help with reach is a big misconception and doesn't fix that issue???? I mean if I'm not leaning as far forward I shouldnt have as much pressure on the bars or need to be pulling as hard to do things and the leverage ratios are moved back.

 

[Wildman13]

Have you considered that the cause of your discomfort is overuse and that you need more time to recover?

Yeah thats what I was asking. "Has anyone else started riding a ton more with the E-bike and experiencing the same issue?"
100% can be overuse. HOWEVER vs doing nothing (resting and not riding my bike) I'm trying to find a solution to fix it, grip size, bar sweep, new stem etc.

wife and I are heading to the Oregon Coast on 15th and riding several places on way to BC to ride all summer. Not riding isn't really an option.

 

[Wildman13]

When you say your hands are aching where exactly do you mean?

Imagine you go for a long hike (all day) or you just get a super good workout (however) and your body aches.

Its mostly in my fingers, not palms and not numbness. The bike weight 45 lbs with pedals and contis so it's a lot of weight to move around underneath me. We've been doing a ton of riding and on ALL the rides I'm always riding super aggressive. That doesn't mean super huge it just means, as fast as possible a lot and manuals, bunny hops, jumps etc. every time I do these things I'm having to grip the bar tighter than a "loose grip" because I'm actively engaging the bike. This is a lot of strain on my hands/fingers. Its 100% due to the amount of use but I'm hoping that by moving the bar closer to me or changing the angle I can reduce that strain. The reach is much further on this bike so the amount of energy i need to use to move that front end is more than my old bike due to this 1 factor alone. then add in the extra weight, I have more energy so more aggressive etc.

Just trying to see if anyone else has experienced this issue before I got by a whole new set up to experiment with

 

[Bummers]

Honestly I think you've answered your own question, the handlebars are too far away so getting ones that can be upswept and angled towards you can help reduce the strain .

 

[Dax]

What forks are you running? Do they feel chattery?

 

[Wildman13]

Honestly I think you've answered your own question, the handlebars are too far away so getting ones that can be upswept and angled towards you can help reduce the strain .

I was guessing at an answer for my issue based on limited information on my part. Was just hoping to collect more info

 

[Ark]

Did you see where I said the Ergon grips made my hands go numb?

yea I didn't see the bvit where you said they were the Ergon grips with the wings....

they make more than one grip , the ones with wings spread your weight out more over your hands


Maybe your bikes just the wrong size and too much of your weight is over the front end
Is your fork sagging too much?

 

[Plummet]

Yeah my buddy suggested a big sweep backwards. I'm currently waiting on an answer back from SC about what exact bars I have on my bike because. Meaning are they the Burgtec I find online (but dont match exactly what they look like) or some OEM only product Burgtec makes for them that has mysterious stats no one can find, lol. I was gonna shorten the stem from a 42.5 to 32 or 35 but came across an article on "the Lost co" that shortening stem to help with reach is a big misconception and doesn't fix that issue???? I mean if I'm not leaning as far forward I shouldnt have as much pressure on the bars or need to be pulling as hard to do things and the leverage ratios are moved back.

Go to a bike shop with your bike and physically place different bars on top of yours. and pick a different sweep.
If you current bars are wider than you last bike then test with the grips and controls more inboard.

The heckler looks to have higher stack too. Test moving the stem up and down on the stem spacers.
Try a shorter stem.

Effectively make one change at a time and note the difference. The fact that the ergon grips didn't work suggests its a sweep/positioning issue.

There is also a chance that your forks are harsh on the initial small bump performance. But that will more likely lead to arm pump that numb hands. It wont help the issue. But I am mainly convinced its cockpit set up.

 

[irie]

... But I am mainly convinced its cockpit set up.

I also think so.

Try higher rise bars with more sweep - sweep is a commonly ignored issue.

You are going to have to mess around trying different things until you find what works for you. It's most important to be comfortable on the flat and downhill, climbing is a relatively minor issue on an eMTB because you can increase assistance to help climbing.

IMO of course. Be aware that bike bars and stems are set-up for show room appeal and will be horrible for anyone outside 'the norm'. Which is most people of course.

PS I have Sqlab 45mm rise 12 degree sweep bars with a 35mm stem which works for me.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Numb hands usually occur from an impacted wrist irritating the median nerve, there are many causes for this, from handlebar height, width, rise, reach, rotation, sweep, cockpit position, saddle position, vibration, etc.

Though you say you are not getting numbness and you have not complained of wrist pain.
Incorrect handlebar back sweep can cause wrist pain as they will force your hands into an unnatural position, causing irritation to the radial or ulnar nerve, Easily spotted by aches/pains on the sides of the wrist.
So while a larger back swept bar will bring your reach closer, it may also cause more wrist pain.
You can roughly measure your resting wrist position with a stick or pencil to see if a larger back swept bar would be a benefit.
This video covers it well.


Handlebar width also plays a big part, you say you're running them at 800mm, which unless you have very broad shoulders will likely be too wide.
They will feel great if only doing short stints on the bike, improved leverage and control, but if spending hours in the saddle will cause stress to other parts of your body to compensate, shoulders, elbows, wrists, hands.

Saddle position can also make a huge difference to hand fatigue. It sounds like you're mostly doing downhill, but if you are doing any length of climbing as well, correct saddle position can take a lot of pressure off your hands and is worth investigating.

From what you've described, the amount of riding you're doing without time to recover could be a big part.
Finger pain could be due to gripping too tightly, irritating the finger flexor tendons, put your fingertips on the edge of a table and push your palm down will cause pain.
A softer silicone grip may help, something like a ESI grip.

There are so many variables as to what could be causing your symptoms, it's hard to know where to start, but I'll 3rd, it could be a cockpit set up issue.
Before spending out any money, I'd look into cockpit set up, make sure lever and shifter positions are correct for you.

Bar width and rotation are correct.
Saddle position is correct.

Once you are 100% confident with these then start looking into riser bars, stems etc if you feel the reach is still too long.

 

[irie]

Bar width and rotation are correct.

How can "correct bar width" be determined?

 

[Mikerb]

I think all the posts a bove cover the options. To better analyse why your hands hurt decide for yourself between 3 common reasons.
Firstly from the sort of riding you say you are doing I am surprised you talk a bout raising the saddle.......anything other than mils single track at lowish speed you should be up on the pedals..not seated. So when up on the pedals how much of your weight is on your hands ( excepting when you deliberately weigh the front wheel?). Most of you weight should be on your feet.....if not the advice a bove re effectively reducing the reach is worth trying. Option are higher rise bars, shorter stem, more backward sweep on the bars.
If you have small hands you need thin/narrow grips...not thick ones. Assuming you ride with index fingers on the brakes virtually all the pressure on your hands is on the thumb to palm angle. Super grippy grips with good well fitting gloves are the best way to get good grip. your fingers should meerly act as a hook for pulling on the bars.........not a death grip.....that is guaranteed to give you numb fingers because it restrcits the blood flow.
Give all the above, if the bars are giving your hands a beating it is mostly due to your fork set up although a lot of the pressure can be relieved by keeping your elbows and shoulders flexible..........both combined provide significantly more "suspension" than your fork!!

 

[irie]

Imagine you go for a long hike (all day) or you just get a super good workout (however) and your body aches.

Its mostly in my fingers, not palms and not numbness. The bike weight 45 lbs with pedals and contis so it's a lot of weight to move around underneath me. We've been doing a ton of riding and on ALL the rides I'm always riding super aggressive. That doesn't mean super huge it just means, as fast as possible a lot and manuals, bunny hops, jumps etc. every time I do these things I'm having to grip the bar tighter than a "loose grip" because I'm actively engaging the bike. This is a lot of strain on my hands/fingers. Its 100% due to the amount of use but I'm hoping that by moving the bar closer to me or changing the angle I can reduce that strain. The reach is much further on this bike so the amount of energy i need to use to move that front end is more than my old bike due to this 1 factor alone. then add in the extra weight, I have more energy so more aggressive etc.

Just trying to see if anyone else has experienced this issue before I got by a whole new set up to experiment with

What is the reach on your old bike and what is the reach on your new bike? Inches or cm.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

How can "correct bar width" be determined?

The honest answer is trial and error, as no formula will work for everyone.
The main take away is everyone's anatomy is different, and not to fall into the trap of thinking MTB=wide bars.

Somehow 800mm bars have become the norm like 7° back sweep bars have, but in reality they only suit a small portion of people.

I'll quote a video from this channel again, as it makes a lot of sense to me. They have a formula that bar width can be determined from multiplying your height by 4.40
It may work for some but for me, it would put my maximum bar width around 820mm, where I'm currently running 760mm and could even go narrower.


I guess another aspect is the type of riding you do and what priorities you hold higher.
If you're smashing laps at a bike park with an uplift maybe you'll sacrifice comfort for extra leverage and control, or if you're doing a lot of epic adventures then comfort maybe highest priority and getting a more "correct" bar width takes precedence, or if you're younger your body will handle more abuse, I'm getting older and certainly noticing my body can't take it

I think one thing's for sure though, if you run bars that are far too wide for your anatomy for a long period of time you're going to wreck your joints.

 

[RustyIron]

Yeah thats what I was asking. "Has anyone else started riding a ton more with the E-bike and experiencing the same issue?"
100% can be overuse.

Back in my Amish days, I'd ride hard and be really sore, so I'd have to take a couple days to recover. Or I could just keep riding and be in agony. Now than I roll on an eMTB, I can ride consecutive days without discomfort, but if I go too long without a rest, I start feeling it. I have to take time to recover.

My nephew is a professional athlete. He's young and fit. His activity is closely monitored, and when he's had enough, he has to take time off. The coaches insist. If he doesn't, then injuries occur and performance declines. I'm not young, and I don't have highly paid coaches and a medical staff, so I just rest when I get sore... except for tomorrow. My wrist is sore, but my homeboys are riding and I don't want to miss out.

 

[irie]

The honest answer is trial and error, as no formula will work for everyone.
...

Which is pretty much what I said earlier

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Yes, but it's important to understand what the change is doing.

"Try higher rise bars with more sweep"

While more sweep could help wouldn't it be better advice to ask him to measure his wrist angle first.

The current sweep of his bars maybe correct and it maybe a rise is all he needs, which could be done at zero cost if his steerer is long enough.

My advice is before spending any money research and understand the fundamentals and make an educated choice on what might help.
He could save a lot of money, or if he's rich go and buy every part he wants and try them all until he's bored

 

[irie]

You can measure stuff ad infinitum, but @Wildman13 has another bike ("my old Patrol") so, assuming that is comfortable for him, (IMO) he would be best advised to set the new bike up using his old bike as a starting point.

 

[RickBullotta]

Try Ergon GA2's. Not as odd a shape as the full-on Ergons, but quite grippy so you don't need to "death grip" to maintain control. Also, try rotating your brake levers up or down and/or adjusting the level reach to see if that makes a difference - I've found too many people mess with stem, saddle, bars only to find out that their lever position was not ergonomic for their riding position/style. And never, ever use "matchmaker" mounts. Adjust your shifter/dropper and brake levers independently.

 

[p3eps]

I had similar when changing last year to a gen2 Levo SL.

A few good people on here suggested I tried SQ Labs 30X bars, as you can get them with a 12° and 16° backsweep.

I ordered the carbon 12° ones with 45mm rise, and they've changed my riding completely. No longer do I get aches and numbness when on the bike for over an hour. They felt a little odd for the first 10 mins of the first ride, and after that, I was convinced. They also don't look as weird as some of the 40-50mm rise bars out there.

Not a cheap option to 'try' if they don't work for you... and they probably don't work for everyone.
For me, they were worth the risk, and paid off!

I think I'm going to order another set for my Stumpjumper too, as now it feels weird going back to it!