Looking for the Top Dog emtb

[Juanroberts]

I am a 50+ advanced rider (I ride trials, enduro, etc) with a worsening knee condition and arthritis. So, I am looking for technically my first mountain ebike. It would allow me to continue coaching my son’s mtb team. Ideally the bike I am looking for would be among the best e-mountain bikes with a very powerful motor, and full suspension. I would use it on steep, and technical long singletrack rides. This week I tried the Trek rail and I liked the ability to ride up stairs. I only wish it had more piwer, like a 750W motor and maybe slightly better handling. I prefer e-shifting (AXS) and e-dropper (Reverb).

As an aside, for a few years the only ebike I have owned is a hardtail Haibike 24” Bosch. The reason I bought it was so my son could keep up with me while I was going up mountain singletrack. Nevertheless, he has since outgrown it and can out pedal me. I now use it as a clownbike for commuting to work.

I checked out the ebike reviews and the Nukeproof Carbon ebike looks interesting with its 600+ Watts, AXS, and Reverb dropper (I have an Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper with the AXS and Reverb and love them). It also has e-shifting which I have not yet tried but given its by SRAM am interested. The problem is they seem hard to get in the USA?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[samjlevy]

What is your budget?

Crestline 75/50 would probably be classed as the top dog.

 

[Stihldog]

Sounds like you could ride any type of eMTB. Motor reliability is important to me. The 5+ motor types available are getting better each year but I prefer a Bosch CX. I also really like the AXS reverb and AXS derailer.

I only have a 625wh battery (good enough for me) but a 750wh would be nice for those long rides.

Oh!…welcome to the forums.

 

[Kootbiker]

Try a Rocky Mountain Powerplay.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Juanroberts Be careful not to confuse battery energy, in Watt hours (Whr) and motor power in Watts (W). In order to get an electric bike that needs no insurance, registration or taxation, the motor power is limited by law to 250W. But that is a fix. The motor can exceed that for periods, at the expense of shorter battery life. For example, a 250W motor will consume a 500Whr battery in 2 hours if run at its "maximum" of 250 W. But the power consumption is a variable from zero to several multiples. Three to five is the range I believe, depending upon which motor. But there is no free lunch, the more power you use the faster you run out of battery.

The key factor with pedal assist e-bikes of the pedal assist type is the torque, measured in Newton Metres (Nm). That varies by motor, Bosch and Shimano are at 85Nm, Yamaha, I think, is 90Nm. Haibike have their own motors and one of them generates 125Nm!

If you really want an electric bike that has 750W of power (you can get more, I have seen one at 1000W!) then you do not want a pedal assist bike. What you want is an electric motor bike.

 

[Juanroberts]

These are great responses.

Samjlevy,
I am already thinking of $10,000 but it depends as I could go higher or lower. I ride with NICA and some manufacturers have great coach discounts plus everyone is talking about a glut in ebikes. The Crestline looks cool and it seems similar to the Nukeproof in terms of finding one nearby to try out.

Stihldog,
I am big into chainsaws and clearing trail, so nice login. I agree on the Bosch. It seems the racer version helps a little more too. Thanks for the warm welcome!

Kootbiker,
The Rocky Mountain has an interesting amount of torque vs 250Watts “nominal” power:
“Dyname 4.0 Mountain Bike Drive | 250w Nominal Power | 108Nm | Rocky Mountain Micro Remote | Low RPM - High Efficiency class 1 eMTB System | Designed in Canada”

Steve_Sordy,
I am still a little confused after I read this off Google:
“Class 1 e-bikes have a maximum power output of 750 watts, making them powerful enough to tackle steep hills but not too powerful to be a safety hazard on the road.”

Thanks all!

 

[Aitrui]

Steve_Sordy,
I am still a little confused after I read this off Google:
“Class 1 e-bikes have a maximum power output of 750 watts, making them powerful enough to tackle steep hills but not too powerful to be a safety hazard on the road.”

Thanks all!

Torque is turning force, not power. It's quite miss leading to advertise these motors with only the torque number.I'm not surprised you are confused. Ep8 85nm and bosch 85nm doesn't feel the same, because torque is not power.

Check my attached image from a gen4 bosch motor. The peak power almost hits 750 watt limit with the advertised 85nm.
IF you are climbing a steep hill under the assistance speed limit in turbo mode, your gen4 bosch motor will draw nearly 750 watt constantly.

 

[steve_sordy]

These are great responses.

............
Steve_Sordy,
I am still a little confused after I read this off Google:
“Class 1 e-bikes have a maximum power output of 750 watts, making them powerful enough to tackle steep hills but not too powerful to be a safety hazard on the road.”
...........

Your OP referred to motor power of 750W. Pretty much all the normal ebike motors can achieve that, at least for a limited time, but they are all nominally 250W (they have to be, to be rated as Class 1). I also said that power was variable from zero to several multiples, 3-5 being the range. So the nominal, perfectly legal, Class 1 bike with a motor rated at 250W can achieve 750W. But I would never consider it as a 750W motor.

I have read on this Forum of riders that always ride in Boost. No wonder they are always looking for larger batteries, or spare ones to carry with them. Maybe that is your destiny. With a bit of luck, you will wear out the motor before your warranty period is up.

 

[Paulquattro]

Welcome to the forum

 

[Juanroberts]

Hey Aiteui,

Yes, I appreciate the picture. It clarifies the concept. I come from an electric trials bike world. There motors are measured by how many Watts you can feed them. Some are 750 Watts. Torque I thought of as the second derivative of speed. It makes sense if your motor is putting it out like that.

Paulquattro,

I appreciate the welcome.

Now to buy something!

Thanks!

 

[Juanroberts]

I found a comparison table for the Bosch motors. It is telling. It discloses and contrasts “Rated continuous output” with “Maximum Power”:

The motor: Powerful drive for eBikes

The mid-motor supports the eBike from gently to powerfully. The Bosch eBike drive is optimally tuned thanks to a precise sensor concept, allowing a natural riding sensation and riding fun.

www.bosch-ebike.com

There seems to be more correlation between torque and “Max. power at a cadence of 70 rpm”.

 

[Ride 2d@y]

How about attend Sea Otter April 17-21 to ride demo Ebikes?

 

[Hansie]

Kann das SCOTT Patron 900 eRide nur empfehlen. Bosch CX line Motor

 

[No idea]

Have a look at the Canyon Strive On. Maybe with the lighter 625 watt battery. It’s using the Bosch cx motor range. The base model is great and you can upgrade it with absolute top components if You wish. The top model comes with the race cx motor which I am sure will raise some eyebrows!

 

[Juanroberts]

How about attend Sea Otter April 17-21 to ride demo Ebikes?

I hope I can wait that long. About 5 years ago I was able to get double deals there and ordered a Haibike hardtail 24” for my son. That way when he was 7 he could ride with me. I still use that bike with a Bosch motor to commute to work. I remember the promoter telling me I could not go wrong as just the battery was worth the $600 it was going for at the time. Thanks!

 

[Stihldog]

…I am big into chainsaws and clearing trail, so nice login. I agree on the Bosch. It seems the racer version helps a little more too.

Regarding saws and trails; there’s a handful of trail elves on this mountain that keep things hike-able and ride-able. Most users appreciate the effort that it takes to maintain, restore or build trails. Personally, I find it relaxing and somewhat therapeutic …and I still get a decent ride in.

I don’t use a gas-powered saw anymore, rather I use the Milwaukee. It’s a bit quieter and lighter …not as powerful though. The battery operated version is also a bit stealthy-er. I wish I had the 12amp battery …but that cost more than the saw. (I have 9 5amp batteries).

A Rogue hoe, sawzall, shovel, garden rake, garden snips, fabric shopping bag, energy bar and water are useful also.

 

[Dax]

the Nukeproof Carbon ebike looks interesting

It looks like a great bike, but unfortunately Nukeproof have gone under, so I wouldn’t expect any warranty support.

 

[Koban]

I couldn't find a enduro bike with the specs I wanted. I ended up with a Canyon Torque ON CF9. Kept the frame, motor and Fork. Sold the rest of the bike. Build it up with the parts I wanted. Was also a fun project to do.

SRAM Transmission, AXS 170mm, Ohlins TTX22M.2 coil, DT XHC1501 35mm wheels + CushCore Pro inserts, Magura MT7 Raceline calipers + Shimano M9120 levers. MDR-P 220mm rotors, OneUp 35mm stem + carbon E Bar 780mm, EDC Tool in stem. stamp 7 (S) Some small parts from Muc Off.

Also have a Spectral ON CFR LTD. This bike has 150mm front and rear suspension. Also a fun bike . Only big thing I changed on this bike are the brakes for Magura MT7 Raceline calipers + Shimano M9120 levers.

 

[No idea]

I couldn't find a enduro bike with the specs I wanted. I ended up with a Canyon Torque ON CF9. Kept the frame, motor and Fork. Sold the rest of the bike. Build it up with the parts I wanted. Was also a fun project to do.

SRAM Transmission, AXS 170mm, Ohlins TTX22M.2 coil, DT XHC1501 35mm wheels + CushCore Pro inserts, Magura MT7 Raceline calipers + Shimano M9120 levers. MDR-P 220mm rotors, OneUp 35mm stem + carbon E Bar 780mm, EDC Tool in stem. stamp 7 (S) Some small parts from Muc Off.

Also have a Spectral ON CFR LTD. This bike has 150mm front and rear suspension. Also a fun bike . Only big thing I changed on this bike are the brakes for Magura MT7 Raceline calipers + Shimano M9120 levers.

The bike is great.
I so want one of those ramps

 

[Koban]

Thanks, Unfortunately most bike companies do not offer E Bike frame only options. So you can build your own specked bike. Had the luck that I did get good discount on the bike and sold the parts I did not use.
The MTBhoppers are fun and good for some practicing. We have a few Intro's and Coaches & Extensions.

 

[Juanroberts]

Regarding saws and trails;

YES! I have a couple Stihls including the 500i. After a fire lots of logs come down. I also have an EGO 19” for the urban work. I heard wonders about the Milwaukee from Hawaii dirtbike riders as you do not have to dismount to use it. I tend to carry a manual chainsaw chain with handles because the smaller stuff I can got through 1/3 and likely snap it off afterwards. I love my Travis Rogue Hoe so much I have it in a long wooden handle, as well as in a Trail Boss takedown version. If I ever go up there again I will be sure to text you. And if you are going south, let me know. Thanks for your work!!

 

[Juanroberts]

I meant 18” on the EGO.

 

[weihlac]

I am a 50+ advanced rider (I ride trials, enduro, etc) with a worsening knee condition and arthritis. So, I am looking for technically my first mountain ebike. It would allow me to continue coaching my son’s mtb team. Ideally the bike I am looking for would be among the best e-mountain bikes with a very powerful motor, and full suspension. I would use it on steep, and technical long singletrack rides. This week I tried the Trek rail and I liked the ability to ride up stairs. I only wish it had more piwer, like a 750W motor and maybe slightly better handling. I prefer e-shifting (AXS) and e-dropper (Reverb).

As an aside, for a few years the only ebike I have owned is a hardtail Haibike 24” Bosch. The reason I bought it was so my son could keep up with me while I was going up mountain singletrack. Nevertheless, he has since outgrown it and can out pedal me. I now use it as a clownbike for commuting to work.

I checked out the ebike reviews and the Nukeproof Carbon ebike looks interesting with its 600+ Watts, AXS, and Reverb dropper (I have an Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper with the AXS and Reverb and love them). It also has e-shifting which I have not yet tried but given its by SRAM am interested. The problem is they seem hard to get in the USA?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

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[Antlers]

I am a 50+ advanced rider (I ride trials, enduro, etc) with a worsening knee condition and arthritis. So, I am looking for technically my first mountain ebike. It would allow me to continue coaching my son’s mtb team. Ideally the bike I am looking for would be among the best e-mountain bikes with a very powerful motor, and full suspension. I would use it on steep, and technical long singletrack rides. This week I tried the Trek rail and I liked the ability to ride up stairs. I only wish it had more piwer, like a 750W motor and maybe slightly better handling. I prefer e-shifting (AXS) and e-dropper (Reverb).

As an aside, for a few years the only ebike I have owned is a hardtail Haibike 24” Bosch. The reason I bought it was so my son could keep up with me while I was going up mountain singletrack. Nevertheless, he has since outgrown it and can out pedal me. I now use it as a clownbike for commuting to work.

I checked out the ebike reviews and the Nukeproof Carbon ebike looks interesting with its 600+ Watts, AXS, and Reverb dropper (I have an Specialized S-Works Stumpjumper with the AXS and Reverb and love them). It also has e-shifting which I have not yet tried but given its by SRAM am interested. The problem is they seem hard to get in the USA?

Thoughts?

Thanks!

I did extensive research, got the S-Works Turbo Levo and have absolutely loved it. (Checks boxes: AXS/XX1, Reverb, Fox Factory)

 

[Desert_Turtle]

I read your post. If you’re looking for a “top dog” bike why are you looking at a Nukeproof? That’s a mediocre bike that’s hard to find in the US and I think they’re going bankrupt anyway. Somebody already mentioned Crestline. The general consensus is that’s the best. If you want something a little less boutique the Orbea Wild or Specialized Levo would probably be your next choices. Unfortunately, I don’t think $10k is going to get you any of the top tier bikes kitted with an AXS Transmission and AXS dropper (maybe as a NICA coach). All that aside, there are probably a dozen bikes that would meet your criteria as most of the big brands make a great bike. I’m your age and also a very advanced rider and I have friends that are faster than I am and ride bikes that aren’t top dog at all. In your case shop for the powertrain and not the bike. If you’re in the US and training kids you need something easily serviceable etc. Buy whatever your local dealers sell. I’m not sure why most of the local coaches that I run across here in SOCAL either ride a Levo or a Rail. The Trek Rail is also a great bike with Bosch power and these days I think you could find a 9.9 AXS model for 10k.

 

[Onetime]

Thanks, Unfortunately most bike companies do not offer E Bike frame only options. So you can build your own specked bike. Had the luck that I did get good discount on the bike and sold the parts I did not use.
The MTBhoppers are fun and good for some practicing. We have a few Intro's and Coaches & Extensions.

Pole offers frame only options as well as several complete build options. They use Bosch motors and 750w batteries.

 

[Desert_Turtle]

I wish that I could try a Pole Voima so that I could have an objective opinion. They look great on paper and I’ve never heard of anybody complaining about them. My concern is that the only support you have is online and in Europe. I don’t think that would be a practical choice for someone who trains high school kids 2-3 days a week.

 

[Jukka4130]

Pole Bicycles Sonni or Voima will tick all the boxes, and plenty more.

 

[Roundbadge]

61 year old rider here.
Bought a 22 Turbo levo which I still have.
I typically ride lots of steep tech single track type stuff so I wanted to add a more capable longer travel ebike to my arsenal.
I tried the new Orbea Wild and had one on order but went with the Crestline 75/50 after doing a demo ride.best bike I’ve ever ridden.

 

[daju]

I've owned a few Turbo Levos
Agree with previous poster that Rocky Mt Powerplay is best