Looking for an XC bike is Levo overkill

[Dax]

You could drive a Corolla around the Nurburgring. There are more interesting vehicles to do that with though.

Arguably a Corolla would be a good choice for your first 25 laps of the ring

 

[Zed]

I generally notice the lack of torque on my SL when trying to ride up stuff I wouldn’t attempt to ride up on a mtb.

Horses for courses. But I'd notice the lack of torque when I was doing too much less than 20km/h up a reasonably steep hill

 

[Zed]

Arguably a Corolla would be a good choice for your first 25 laps of the ring

Ah but would you fork out big money for a new Corolla and know you have to drive only it there for the next few years?

 

[Tedster209]

So seems 131kg is too heavy for 90% of emtb, seen couple which are close to combined weight, Santa Cruz heckler 157kg, mondraker level xr 150kg, cube stereo hybrid 160kg,hai bike all mountain 4/7 150kg, giant trance 157kg, think could risk on these Orbea and Trek seems to be max total 130kg

 

[Plummet]

Levo will be fine particularly because you are a heavy dude. Anything lighter you will start bending and breaking stuff.

With an E it doesnt matter if you have a bit more travel than you need.
Who knows, you might like the extra travel and start riding harder.

 

[Zed]

So seems 131kg is too heavy for 90% of emtb, seen couple which are close to combined weight, Santa Cruz heckler 157kg, mondraker level xr 150kg, cube stereo hybrid 160kg,hai bike all mountain 4/7 150kg, giant trance 157kg, think could risk on these Orbea and Trek seems to be max total 130kg

Also Rocky Mountain, 150kg.

A couple of things on that:
- the longest travel bikes are generally built burlier. Also the longer travel takes more of the hit in the suspension. Go for a Enduro type bike if you want the strongest bike 160+ rear travel but lean towards more. I don't see a Levo being a contender. Something with a burly frame, 38mm stanchions, the heavy kit. Kenevo maybe but meh 27.5. Maybe a Focus Sam2 (lots for your money, built like a tank), or the Mondraker Level like you mentioned, and yes I'm biased but Rocky Mountain Powerplay would also be in the ballpark.
- I would say you most definitely want full powered, 700+ battery, and more is probably better if you're into big rides
- I'd recommend Bosch or Rocky Mountain. They are torquey. Bosch is super refined. I like the RM because I hate the Bosch clatter but a lot of people don't seem to mind it.

EDIT: A coil would make sense too for the rear shock. Not essential, but it's going to be a lot of pressure for a 130kg rider and only the highest end shocks are going to play well I think. One of the higher end coils would make sense and less maintenance over time (more hassle getting the spring right but once done it's done).

 

[Tedster209]

Also Rocky Mountain, 150kg.

A couple of things on that:
- the longest travel bikes are generally built burlier. Also the longer travel takes more of the hit in the suspension. Go for a Enduro type bike if you want the strongest bike 160+ rear travel but lean towards more. I don't see a Levo being a contender. Something with a burly frame, 38mm stanchions, the heavy kit. Kenevo maybe but meh 27.5. Maybe a Focus Sam2 (lots for your money, built like a tank), or the Mondraker Level like you mentioned, and yes I'm biased but Rocky Mountain Powerplay would also be in the ballpark.
- I would say you most definitely want full powered, 700+ battery, and more is probably better if you're into big rides
- I'd recommend Bosch or Rocky Mountain. They are torquey. Bosch is super refined. I like the RM because I hate the Bosch clatter but a lot of people don't seem to mind it.

EDIT: A coil would make sense too for the rear shock. Not essential, but it's going to be a lot of pressure for a 130kg rider and only the highest end shocks are going to play well I think. One of the higher end coils would make sense and less maintenance over time (more hassle getting the spring right but once done it's done).

Thanks some good insights will take everything you’ve said here to wittle down in my head as to what I’m looking for, is there a reason for Bosch over say Shimano EP8 at 85nm? Looks like can add coils to existing suspension to give more resistance is that correct. ?

 

[Zed]

Thanks some good insights will take everything you’ve said here to wittle down in my head as to what I’m looking for, is there a reason for Bosch over say Shimano EP8 at 85nm? Looks like can add coils to existing suspension to give more resistance is that correct. ?

Hmm might be some personal preference creeping there I've never really liked the Shimano motors since I had an E8000, which was weak as piss. I've not had the EP8 but consensus seems to be it's weaker, certainly at lower cadences, and I very much expect that will be blindingly obvious riding one (versus Bosch or Rocky Mountain). I felt the same with the Brose, although that does not have the clutch clatter which is a big saving grace in my book. On Robs' youtube channel and others there are motor comparisons with unscientific but good-enough-for-me hill climbs, check those out.


This one actually has the Rocky Mountain *ahem*


If you get a bike with coil suspension you will need to buy the right coil. Many shops will neglect that and then you take a shiny new expensive bike home and it's a turd because the coil is way too soft. Usually the bike manual will tell you based on your weight what coil. This has always been one coil away from what I actually needed. It's a hassle, but once it's set up it's consistent. If you go to a decent shop tell them you want them to sort the coil out when you pick the bike up, would be best. They may stare at you blankly, in which case we can help you out on here

Example coils from my local suspension shop:

Search: 86 results found for "rockshox coil"

Cyclinic MTB suspension specialists. The trusted and dedicated MTB suspension service centre in Australia with the biggest range of new suspension and parts.

cyclinic.com.au

You can of course always add a coil shock later, though the bike does need to be able to run a coil, a good sign if there are specs with a coil available. You actually might run air an find it's fine, when we're new to this we dunno what our preferences will be. But I would for a heavier person say coil makes a lot of sense. I run a Vivid Coil I recently upgraded to, I'm just over 100kg, and love it.

There's a lot to think about and lot to learn picking a bike, let alone a first eMTB. But it's big money really, especially once you've made it your own, so it's worth putting some time into it.

Watch videos like this: - just beware there's a lot of opinion and a lot of the time I feel different to a lot of reviewers, I'm sure everyone does. But there's plenty of info and comparisons.

 

[Dax]

Hmm might be some personal preference creeping there I've never really liked the Shimano motors since I had an E8000, which was weak as piss. I've not had the EP8 but consensus seems to be it's weaker, certainly at lower cadences, and I very much expect that will be blindingly obvious riding one (versus Bosch or Rocky Mountain). I felt the same with the Brose, although that does not have the clutch clatter which is a big saving grace in my book.

My experience is somewhat different, the only Shimano motor I’ve ridden is the 8000, but it had enough poke to comfortably hold a wheelie up a fairly steep fire road in the Wye valley (and instantly made me want to buy the bike because it was a laugh). The current Brose motor is also plenty powerful and is the most natural feeling assist of the current full fats, I rode one for the baguette runs in the alps this summer and it easily had enough power to get back up the hill to the chalet with a load of bread under one arm. Not a terrible bike in the park either.

 

[Zed]

My experience is somewhat different, the only Shimano motor I’ve ridden is the 8000, but it had enough poke to comfortably hold a wheelie up a fairly steep fire road in the Wye valley (and instantly made me want to buy the bike because it was a laugh). The current Brose motor is also plenty powerful and is the most natural feeling assist of the current full fats, I rode one for the baguette runs in the alps this summer and it easily had enough power to get back up the hill to the chalet with a load of bread under one arm. Not a terrible bike in the park either.

Yeah of course they all work. They'll all get you up a hill with a load of bread for sure. Just depends what you're used to. I like to ride quick up as well as down and a stronger motor obviously does that better - especially for us heavier ppl. For me the stronger motors have all seemed to do much better in terms of range, which was one of OPs main requirements. The Brose had a lot less range than both the Bosch and the Dyname for me, it was quite noticeable, with a similar (quite high) level of support.

The Brose is not terrible, not at all, and reading it back I shouldn't have lumped it in with the E8000 above, it's much better. It doesn't have the clutch clatter which is awesome, but I do think it's noticeably weaker than both the Bosch and moreso the Dyname. I got rid of the Levo because I found out I just don't really dig mullet, and there aren't options to do anything about that, it was nothing to do with the motor etc. But I then went onto the Dyname and it was a huge difference in pull up steep stuff, like night and day.

The E8000 though is pretty dated now, you might be feeling some nostalgia there I think

 

[Dax]

The E8000 though is pretty dated now, you might be feeling some nostalgia there I think

I think it’s the only shinano motor I’ve ridden, was a mates 2020 heckler last year that I hopped on for a lap. Felt nice and punchy tbh. The warranty horror stories on here about bike manufacturers pointing at shimano and shimano pointing at the bike manufacturers would stop me buying a shimano motor.

Edit - demod a Repeater that had shimano iirc. Was ok. Nothing to write home about but much better to ride than the utterly mediocre Bosch motored e160 I’d demod before.

Buying again it’ll probably be Bosch - I have no complaints with how the Levo rides, but everyone has a Levo and I just want a full fat for shuttling, so the Bosch punchiness appeals.

 

[Zed]

Buying again it’ll probably be Bosch - I have no complaints with how the Levo rides, but everyone has a Levo and I just want a full fat for shuttling, so the Bosch punchiness appeals.

If my Rocky got nicked, I would actually buy the another one. Not sure I've thought that about an ebike before. The only conundrum I'd have would be whether to spring for carbon high spec or not. I bought a alloy low spec and did it all up, I haven't brought myself to adding up how much that ended up being but on the bright side I do have it exactly how I want it.

But yeah other than the Rocky it would be Bosch for me too.

I wouldn't find a Sam2 difficult to go for, I nearly got one when I was choosing this bike. I've settled into long travel now and there's a lot of value in Focus bikes here in Aus, great specs for much less $. Mondraker Level looks right for me too.

 

[Tedster209]

Given some thought, I would feel more comfortable on a bike rated for a higher weight cracked a diverge and bianchi road bike 10kg ago, and at moment flipping between 3.

The Santa Cruz heckler looks great, 720w battery and weaker Ep8 motor, although new version coming out next month assume will use same battery & motor though. (157kg) -pros looks and higher weight tolerance, agile, cons - motor downhill apparently rattly and weaker, lower range

Giant Trance x e+1, apparently low front end not the prettiest bike but huge battery ok motor and can expand up to 1000w, be good for touring. (150kg) -pros distance covered cons- not great downhill and a beast

Cannondale mottera
carbon 1, 750w battery and Bosch motor the high end version (lab71)has the race motor but 7500 reduced from 12000 a bit outside my price range, alloy version has rack etc for touring and fair bit cheaper (150kg) - pro few versions to choose from and great motor or fantastic motor. Pros- great motor and decent battery

Honourable mentions probably ibis oso and Mondraker level r/xr seem much more Downhill focused but both great bikes don’t like Mondraker styling as much but does have spring suspension on some versions (150kg)

Rocky/trek/Orbea all seem to be rated to 130kg seems to be pretty much standard across e-bikes think be while before I’m down to 100kg again.

Leaning towards Cannondale because of motor, saw documentary on people touring with them in Italian mountains and seem reasonably agile and capable up hills, if could afford or see me for ~6k would get lab71 as non mullet version and lighter

 

[Bart1]

Tedster, this may be of interest to you.

I've just completed the Greater Ridgeway Trail, almost 400 miles over 8 days. Did it in two halves, the first half on a Gaint Reign e+1 in May with 625 battery and the second half on a Trance E+2 with 750 battery. The Trance was the better bike for me, the Reign was overkill.
The only mods were slightly higher bars, 2.35 Smart Sam tyres, a better seat, Grip Puppies and inner bar grips. The bike was right for me on this trip and it coped with everything well, some sections needed all the suspension (150/140) and others not, but I would not have wanted to be on a bike with much less travel.
The daily mileage was from 44 to 67 (Dorset is very hilly, Norfolk flat) but always had at least one bar left. I passed several gravel bikes along the way and the riders did not look that happy or comfortable to me, some said their hands were shaking after a few miles of gravel.
I usually ran the bikes in level 1 or 2 with the occasional level 3. With a lower power bike it would end up running near its maximum for longer so in theory the bigger motor should be less stressed and last longer.

 

[Tedster209]

Tedster, this may be of interest to you.

I've just completed the Greater Ridgeway Trail, almost 400 miles over 8 days. Did it in two halves, the first half on a Gaint Reign e+1 in May with 625 battery and the second half on a Trance E+2 with 750 battery. The Trance was the better bike for me, the Reign was overkill.
The only mods were slightly higher bars, 2.35 Smart Sam tyres, a better seat, Grip Puppies and inner bar grips. The bike was right for me on this trip and it coped with everything well, some sections needed all the suspension (150/140) and others not, but I would not have wanted to be on a bike with much less travel.
The daily mileage was from 44 to 67 (Dorset is very hilly, Norfolk flat) but always had at least one bar left. I passed several gravel bikes along the way and the riders did not look that happy or comfortable to me, some said their hands were shaking after a few miles of gravel.
I usually ran the bikes in level 1 or 2 with the occasional level 3. With a lower power bike it would end up running near its maximum for longer so in theory the bigger motor should be less stressed and last longer.

Interesting, what weight range are you in if you don't mind me asking.

Mods sound like good shout, what are grip puppies?

Is this the standard Trance or the Trance Advanced, have you considered the range extender as well, or takes up valuable water bottle space?

Did you pop a rack on back or just wear small backpack?

 

[Bart1]

Interesting, what weight range are you in if you don't mind me asking.

Mods sound like good shout, what are grip puppies?

Is this the standard Trance or the Trance Advanced, have you considered the range extender as well, or takes up valuable water bottle space?

Did you pop a rack on back or just wear small backpack?

I'm around 75kg, have lost a few this year with all the ebiking.

Grip Puppies are foam over grips from the motorcycle world, I have them on both motorcycle and bicycles. The inner bar grips are really good too, they just give another riding position and handy in a headwind...all on ebay of course.
It's the standard Trance but with the 750 battery bought from here

GIANT TRANCE X E+ 2 750w Sapphire Blue 2022

<h2 class="lead headline">FASTER UP THE CLIMBS, LONGER LOOPS, MORE SINGLETRACK FUN ON ANY GIVEN DAY. FREE YOURSELF TO PUSH YOUR TRAIL RIDING TO THE NEXT LEVEL WITH THIS POWERFUL, FUN AND SMOOTH-RIDING E-BIKE.</h2><div id="keyperformancefactors"></div>

www.rmcycles.co.uk

The blob on the top tube is a power bank as the phone would not last all day.

Re luggage, I am lucky in that her in doors was acting as support vehicle in our camper, so only needed to carry day stuff, just a seat bag and bum bag as I prefer not to have a rucksack. However the other week I did see a orange Giant emtb locally with a rack on the rear frame and bags on the front too...it can be done,

 

[Tedster209]

I'm around 75kg, have lost a few this year with all the ebiking.

Grip Puppies are foam over grips from the motorcycle world, I have them on both motorcycle and bicycles. The inner bar grips are really good too, they just give another riding position and handy in a headwind...all on ebay of course.
It's the standard Trance but with the 750 battery bought from here

GIANT TRANCE X E+ 2 750w Sapphire Blue 2022

<h2 class="lead headline">FASTER UP THE CLIMBS, LONGER LOOPS, MORE SINGLETRACK FUN ON ANY GIVEN DAY. FREE YOURSELF TO PUSH YOUR TRAIL RIDING TO THE NEXT LEVEL WITH THIS POWERFUL, FUN AND SMOOTH-RIDING E-BIKE.</h2><div id="keyperformancefactors"></div>

www.rmcycles.co.uk

The blob on the top tube is a power bank as the phone would not last all day.

Re luggage, I am lucky in that her in doors was acting as support vehicle in our camper, so only needed to carry day stuff, just a seat bag and bum bag as I prefer not to have a rucksack. However the other week I did see a orange Giant emtb locally with a rack on the rear frame and bags on the front too...it can be done, View attachment 146234 View attachment 146235 View attachment 146236

Looks good actually, wondering if advanced is worth extra money

Thanks for all info super useful

 

[Bart1]

Does the Advanced have the bigger battery?

 

[Tedster209]

Does the Advanced have the bigger battery?

Same battery Carbon Composite frame and live fork etc

Compare: 2023 Giant Trance X Advanced E+ 1 vs Trance X E+ 2 – 99 Spokes

The Giant Trance X Advanced E+ 1 and Giant Trance X E+ 2 are both 29″ electronic full suspension trail e-bikes. The Trance X Advanced E+ 1 has a carbon frame, better components, and a better fork; while the Trance X E+ 2 has an aluminum frame.

99spokes.com

Cant find weight guessing couple kg lighter?

 

[Zed]

Given some thought, I would feel more comfortable on a bike rated for a higher weight cracked a diverge and bianchi road bike 10kg ago, and at moment flipping between 3.

The Santa Cruz heckler looks great, 720w battery and weaker Ep8 motor, although new version coming out next month assume will use same battery & motor though. (157kg) -pros looks and higher weight tolerance, agile, cons - motor downhill apparently rattly and weaker, lower range

Giant Trance x e+1, apparently low front end not the prettiest bike but huge battery ok motor and can expand up to 1000w, be good for touring. (150kg) -pros distance covered cons- not great downhill and a beast

Cannondale mottera
carbon 1, 750w battery and Bosch motor the high end version (lab71)has the race motor but 7500 reduced from 12000 a bit outside my price range, alloy version has rack etc for touring and fair bit cheaper (150kg) - pro few versions to choose from and great motor or fantastic motor. Pros- great motor and decent battery

Honourable mentions probably ibis oso and Mondraker level r/xr seem much more Downhill focused but both great bikes don’t like Mondraker styling as much but does have spring suspension on some versions (150kg)

Rocky/trek/Orbea all seem to be rated to 130kg seems to be pretty much standard across e-bikes think be while before I’m down to 100kg again.

Leaning towards Cannondale because of motor, saw documentary on people touring with them in Italian mountains and seem reasonably agile and capable up hills, if could afford or see me for ~6k would get lab71 as non mullet version and lighter

Just one correction, the Rocky Altitude is rated 150kg. It's sitting next to me I can see the sticker from here

All good bikes, Cannondale sounds like it will suit what you're after Bosch is probably ideal for your use case too.

 

[Tedster209]

Just one correction, the Rocky Altitude is rated 150kg. It's sitting next to me I can see the sticker from here

All good bikes, Cannondale sounds like it will suit what you're after Bosch is probably ideal for your use case too.

Thanks for all your help with this really appreciated

New Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Carbon 70 first ride review - this where getting from maybe different models have different max payloads, which model do you have?

 

[Zed]

Thanks for all your help with this really appreciated

New Rocky Mountain Altitude Powerplay Carbon 70 first ride review - this where getting from maybe different models have different max payloads, which model do you have?

Mine's a A30 Coil, and at first I thought it must be a carbon vs alloy thing, but then in the manual here:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0449/1496/6691/files/MY23_owners-manual_pp_web_5.pdf?v=1671126489

on page 5 it says 150kg. The manual is for carbon and alloy. 120kg on that article seems wayyy too light, I'd be inclined to go with the Rocky manual.

I was just thinking about it this morning, everything on my bike has been upgraded except frame, motor and shell of the forks

EDIT: I was just thinking while out riding, if your intention is touring style riding and long rides with motor assistance on the lower side, then I would recommend the Bosch. I love the Rocky motor, I prefer it to the Bosch for my style of riding, but it will be agricultural for low assistance riding. The Bosch is very refined in low power modes by comparison and has really good Tour/Tour+ modes.

 

[Tedster209]

Mine's a A30 Coil, and at first I thought it must be a carbon vs alloy thing, but then in the manual here:

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0449/1496/6691/files/MY23_owners-manual_pp_web_5.pdf?v=1671126489

on page 5 it says 150kg. The manual is for carbon and alloy. 120kg on that article seems wayyy too light, I'd be inclined to go with the Rocky manual.

I was just thinking about it this morning, everything on my bike has been upgraded except frame, motor and shell of the forks

EDIT: I was just thinking while out riding, if your intention is touring style riding and long rides with motor assistance on the lower side, then I would recommend the Bosch. I love the Rocky motor, I prefer it to the Bosch for my style of riding, but it will be agricultural for low assistance riding. The Bosch is very refined in low power modes by comparison and has really good Tour/Tour+ modes.

Gonna wait couple more weeks, been reading up every day on bikes that take a bit of weight.

Cannondale lower down versions don’t have great spec, reviews seem be critical of deore for eq with rack, the hubs of wheels seems to fail pretty quickly, given weight carrying would fail quicker, can replace wheels so not a dealbreaker, but adds to initial cost (can’t buy through cycle2work scheme so big additional cost) got hope on current bike and bombproof, apparently they do a e-bike version too now.

The carbon 1 has good rear wheel (dtSwiss) and better spec, and think can add rack too and has the Bosch motor.

The lab71 looks fantastic but too expensive really, gonna try keep to few hundred a month pay back plus much more than I need.

the low ness of front end of giant worries me a bit, but the range is appealing, really like the look of the Santa Cruz but has weaker battery but not by much but also higher weight tolerance of 158kg.

From reviews the EP8 new motor seems to be stronger at lower rpm but Bosch is better at higher rpm, ep8 tends to be rattly downhill as well, I’m not much of a high rpm guy, but ideally like Santa Cruz with Bosch

Ep8 seems to drain quicker too from write ups.

New Santa Cruz coming in 2 weeks, be interesting to see what motor they will chose, if it’s gonna be a heckler replacement or something else, will maybe go have a look at it as well as the other 2.

Yeah seems Rocky Mountain downhill version gets rave reviews and the mondraker downhill which is friends go to is also suppose be fantastic. Mondraker crafty r would be in running too but again don’t know if more downhill rig doesn’t necessarily favour long distance touring with stretched out stance.

 

[Zed]

That's interesting I hadn't realised the newer EP801 had overtaken the Bosch at lower cadences. I suppose there isn't a whole lot in it, certainly for a touring style of use, except for likely better range on the Bosch. The Bosch Smart System was a very refined system when I had it on the Rail.

Sounds like you got a good handle on things, let us know what you end up with!

 

[Tedster209]

That's interesting I hadn't realised the newer EP801 had overtaken the Bosch at lower cadences. I suppose there isn't a whole lot in it, certainly for a touring style of use, except for likely better range on the Bosch. The Bosch Smart System was a very refined system when I had it on the Rail.

Sounds like you got a good handle on things, let us know what you end up with!

Thanks for the insights think going for cannondale eq, can take a rack and has good motor and range, gonna buy spare battery too, can get for £3,100 and will get 40% off with cycle to work, maybe replace wheels with dt Swiss or hope e-bike wheels

 

[Tedster209]

Was speaking to my friend and made me question my choice a little, wondering if should go for the carbon version as live in flat and need to cart up and down the stairs, can you use walk mode to help you up stairs or do some folk just take batteries or wheel off to make more manageable ?

Can get carbon 2 for around 4k before discount, guessing could always attach that special rack for dual sus I’ve seen as back is aluminium, or just take a water backpack type thing.