Looking for a powerful but light EMTB

[Cybersnow]

I am currently riding a Salsa Fargo converted to an EMTB with a Bafang kit. I would like to go to a full suspension bike with a more powerful motor to help this old fart climb some of the steeper hills and I am tired of the hard tail jarring my back. Any suggestions/advice is appreciated!

 

[mustclime]

Cheap, strong and light, pick any two. If Money is no limit there are a lot of choices. You really should give us more info, how much money, how much travel, how light, how much power? Full, mid or low?

 

[Cybersnow]

Great input! Not going to ride black diamond single track at my old age, so enough travel to ride unimproved dirt and gravel fire roads and easy mountain bike paths which are dirt and often rip rap. Power while pedaling should be +1,000 watts. Cost is pretty open, just bought my wife an ebike for $7k, so maybe around that.

 

[Mabman]

If you are seeking excess of 1000w type power you are pretty much looking at Bafang still in either the M560/600 range with a 52v battery or the full M620 in either 48v or 52v. The torque sensing system in the integrated Bafang motors is a big change in how the bike will ride over the cadence of the kit motor you have been using so that is a plus for sure. However in order to get decent range with a power type motor you will need a large wh battery which like the bigger motor will add to the overall weight of the bike no matter what lightweight components you have.

My take after riding a Luna Z1 with the M620 after a few years is that as soon as you are going the overall weight of the bike is not a detriment and I'm still able to lift it over obstacles easily enough. Sure I've made some mods over that time with better wheels, electronic shifting and a few other bits but I have been overall pleased with it and quite frankly have become a bit addicted to the tempo one can ride it at comfortably on the type of terrain you are targeting as well as its ability on single track.

Also the Luna still ships with the UART system M620 motor so it is programmable easily with some good info online in how to achieve the best tune for your needs.

 

[Cybersnow]

What do you think of the M635? The z1 is out of stock.

 

[ValActionT 750]

Great input! Not going to ride black diamond single track at my old age, so enough travel to ride unimproved dirt and gravel fire roads and easy mountain bike paths which are dirt and often rip rap. Power while pedaling should be +1,000 watts. Cost is pretty open, just bought my wife an ebike for $7k, so maybe around that.

lol my Cube will rocket your old ass with 750 watts of Bosch. as it does mine up some pretty dang steep larger rock accents. Hence it ain’t the necessarily wattage Watson. My STEREO HYBRID 140 HPC ACTIONTEAM 750 was under 6k American dollars, with 3 yr warranty to boot.
If I was a LBS I’d say, “welcome to my lair“. Good luck mate whichever direction you go. Seriously…

 

[Cybersnow]

I have heard that the Bosch 750 is a beast. How much does your bike weigh and can you use a rear rack?

lol my Cube will rocket your old ass with 750 watts of Bosch. as it does mine up some pretty dang steep larger rock accents. Hence it ain’t the necessarily wattage Watson. My STEREO HYBRID 140 HPC ACTIONTEAM 750 was under 6k American dollars, with 3 yr warranty to boot.
If I was a LBS I’d say, “welcome to my lair“. Good luck mate whichever direction you go. Seriously…

 

[Mabman]

What do you think of the M635? The z1 is out of stock.

I am not aware of it truth be told but in looking it up I am glad to see that Bafang has upped the BBSHD, which it looks basically to be outwardly, to torque sensing but disappointed that they stayed with the square taper BB spindle. I am not sure if it is Canbus or UART either but they say blue tooth capable so probably the former which may or may not have software support for fine tuning?

Another option, although not all that light weight, but manageable, is the Frey CC? It already has a rear rack and would make a good gravel/all rounder bike with some knobbier tires?

CC

full suspension ebike! Equipped with a powerful 1000W Bafang M620 mid-drive motor, it can reach speeds of up to 35mph. for off-road biking

www.frey-bike.com

Frey is a reputable company and they have US distribution now but not sure of availability of their products?

 

[Cybersnow]

I looked at that bike when I was searching for a new bike this Spring. My only drawback was one of weight. It looks like a great bike but my wife bought a Zen which is also very heavy. I should be wintering in LA this next year and will not be very far from the Luna store and will try out the Z1 and if that doesnt work, will go look at one of the CYC motors.

 

[Mabman]

Fair enough but there are some grumblings about the CYC kits that I have seen so you might want to dig a bit into that option?

I started out 20+ yrs ago setting up DIY eBikes and it wasn't until a few years ago that I finally buckled to the trend of integrated battery and motor systems and at this point I am glad that I did. I ended up with more bike than I really wanted but the M600 Luna bike in my size went out of stock really quick and so in frustration I went with the Z1 as at that time it was the same price anyway. As I indicated I have made mods to the bike over time but I have been apt to do that to any bike I have had to suit it to my needs/wants.

Another option would be to, depending on how handy you might be, is to buiild your own up starting with a frame like this?

DengFu Winice E55 AM Carbon Frame 27.5er/29er M620 FREE Shipping

DengFu Winice E55 Frame AM Carbon Frame is a AM mountain E-bike carbon frame, Include frame and motor cover.Support for BAFANG M620 motor and maximum support 52V 20Ah 1040Wh battery.

www.dengfubike.com

That way you can assure you will get the UART motor, I would suggest the 52v from GBK. A bit of a project for sure but can be satisfying and a good winter project! Look up Neeko DeVinchi here on this forum as he has done a good bit of builds using platforms like that?

 

[Cybersnow]

I guess I am still pretty new at this, even after building about 7 Bayfang BBS02 and BBSHD bikes. I dont understand why you wanted the M600 bike vs the M620. Thanks for setting the idea of just building one, it is really something I will give a lot of thought on. I have a top of the line Salsa Fargo that I put a BBS02 on and is still sitting in my barn. It would decrease the cost if a new build considerably. Are you suggesting I get the motor from GBK? I am thinking that is what you meant. The page on the frame also identified a source for a battery. I guess I need to do a little research before I spring this on my wife as she is getting tired of my adding so many toys in the barn. LOL.

I tried to google GBK but got nothing, can you give me the full name so I can look it up?

 

[Mabman]

electric motor, hub motor, bldc motor for electric vehicle, electric bike convevsion BBS, ebike batteries, Bafang M620, Bafang M600, Bafang M500, Bafang M510, KT controller with display-GreenBikeKit.com They offer either 48v or 52v in CanBus or UART for a decent price and are very on top of sales and shipping. Also a good supplier for Bafang parts in general. One thing is I know that LUNA has an exclusive with DengFu on the type of frame the Z1 has but I think the one above, as it is different, is available here in the US?

I have been sourcing my batteries, I had 2170 cell ones made in 48v and 52v for my bike, from DT Battery ([email protected]) You just have to feed him the info on what model of housing it is and voltage. I would recommend the 2170 cells for sure. Super happy with pricing and service from them also.

Sounds like you should be up to the task and I would imagine in the end spend actually less especially if you can supply some components on hand like wheels and a front fork, brakes etc. and have the simple tools and skills necessary? One thing I would highly recommend is to get a Shimano 11spd Linkglide drive system as that is what I ended up with after having issues with SRAM and some other types of no namish brands.

Originally I was turned off by the extra weight of the Z1 over the X2 I guess as my DIY TongShen FS bike was less than 50lbs at the time but as I said it has not been an issue other than a few times lifting it over fallen trees and such. Once you are going over 1 mph, aided by a quick blip of the onboard throttle, it all melts away......

 

[Cybersnow]

How much does your Z1 weigh? My Zen weighs in at 76+ lbs. My fargo with the Bafang and battery is at 56 lbs. Also, can you put a rear rack on the Z1? I dont want to carry more than maybe 15lbs, but that can be water, lunch and a change of clothes on a two day ride.

 

[Mabman]

My bike weights 61lbs. close as I can get without a proper scale? I am not familiar with Salsa's lineup and had to look up what a Fargo is and it appears to be a drop bar rigid style? My rigid steel drop bar eBike with a 1000w front hub motor and a 750wh battery weighs 48lbs but it is a different animal, although primarily ridden on gravel and secondary road pavé.

Keeping in mind that the Z1 is a FS bike I am not sure what is available for rear racks for FS bikes as I have no need for that option but I'm sure there is something that would work? If you are planning on touring with a bike like mine you had better plan on packing a charger and taking some long lunch breaks also. I can squeeze 25wh/mi out of mine at a decent pace but that doesn't get you all that far actually? Mostly I'm punching it and gobbling more like 30 When I was using a 750w system I was averaging more like 20wh/mi as a reference.

 

[Cybersnow]

The new bike would be more for playing around in the local area, I think. The rear rack is a plus, but I often ride into town with a backpack when I need to hit the local store for a few things. We did the Oregon coast a coupe of years ago on Salsa Vias with BBSO2s and 52v batteries. We averaged about 50 miles a day and were Air B&B touring so only had a change of clothes or two and basic essentials on board. The Bia isva good light touring bike but not a bike for dirt and gravel.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Dos ebikes potentes y ligeras sin (Bafang, Bosch, Shimano Steps, Brose) Raymond Tarok 90Nm 18,7 kg 756 Wh y Amflow 105 Nm de 19.2 kg 850 Wh

Exclusive first test 2025 ZF Bike Eco System – what is the new ZF ebike motor capable of?

The new ZF CentriX ebike motor boasts some very exciting facts and features. Here’s everything you need to know about it, along with our first riding impression.

ebike-mtb.com

Exclusive first review: New DJI Avinox motor system

With the DJI Avinox, drone specialists DJI present their very first mid-drive ebike motor! Here’s everything you need to know about it!

ebike-mtb.com

 

[mustclime]

Who is going to be the beta testers? Any bets on how quickly someone can kill one with a pressure washer/ hose? ZF might be somewhat water proof but what does a drone company know about waterproofing?

 

[franciscoasismm]

Who is going to be the beta testers? Any bets on how quickly someone can kill one with a pressure washer/ hose? ZF might be somewhat water proof but what does a drone company know about waterproofing?

I totally agree, I have been 40,000km since 2019 with CANYON Neuron ON 21.7kg with second engine DU-E8000, when it breaks I will mount third E8000 backup that I bought from Andrzej Wodejszo. Maybe next year I would buy an ebike with ZF CentriX before an Amflow. You have to wait a year and see how it evolves before buying it. ZF is an expert in automotive and gearboxes.

 

[CoyoteManDan]

I am currently riding a Salsa Fargo converted to an EMTB with a Bafang kit. I would like to go to a full suspension bike with a more powerful motor to help this old fart climb some of the steeper hills and I am tired of the hard tail jarring my back. Any suggestions/advice is appreciated!

I chose a GIANT TRANCE E+ dual suspension and it has a very basic controls, a battery that lasts long enough for my type of riding (local single track and some gravel trails). It’s pretty lightweight for an ebike, and you almost can’t tell that it’s not acoustic. Very quiet too. Upgraded a few things that are just personal preference. One year now and it’s still going strong. Mullet wheel setup, about $6,000 out the door (without pedals).

 

[Cybersnow]

Are these available in the US? I live in a small town in the mountains of Idaho. Only one store selling bikes here and nothing special.

 

[YZDude]

My Bafang M600 Lightcarbon has all the snort to get a heavy old guy up any climb and almost too much for tight trails. Weight gotta be around 55lbs. I’m giving the 510 a serious look for the next ride. If I don’t end up on a more mainstream bike.

 

[franciscoasismm]

Are these available in the US? I live in a small town in the mountains of Idaho. Only one store selling bikes here and nothing special.

Tarok - Ride the Revolution. | Raymon

The first E-MTB with the groundbreaking ZF CentriX motor. Experience the trails more intensely than ever: 160mm of travel, carbon frame & mullet-wheels. Explore the bike »

www.raymon-bicycles.com

 

[Mabman]

Are these available in the US? I live in a small town in the mountains of Idaho. Only one store selling bikes here and nothing special.

Check out the Yamaha price event in another thread here? You can get a comparable bike to that Giant for 1/2 the money. Depends on if you have a Yamaha dealer in the program anywhere near though.

 

[edruid]

Great input! Not going to ride black diamond single track at my old age, so enough travel to ride unimproved dirt and gravel fire roads and easy mountain bike paths which are dirt and often rip rap. Power while pedaling should be +1,000 watts. Cost is pretty open, just bought my wife an ebike for $7k, so maybe around that.

You want road legal?

 

[franciscoasismm]

Check out the Yamaha price event in another thread here? You can get a comparable bike to that Giant for 1/2 the money. Depends on if you have a Yamaha dealer in the program anywhere near though.

 

[Bill in Tomahawk]

As you have discovered there is no single answer.

For the heck of it check out the Jones line of e-bikes. They have their own ideas of what makes an e-bike and the Fall sale knocks a thousand off the price.

I bought the 750W unit early this summer when I sold the last of my dirt bikes. The bicycle is not perfect but it is truely an 'allrounder'. I put on racks front and rear. The thing is a very unique beast.

Jones ebikes

E-Bikes

jonesbikes.com

Many videos on the site.

Bill

 

[YZDude]

View attachment 146422

After seeing this, I messsged a few friends and my buddy immediately went and bought a Moro 07 Limited!

 

[Mabman]

After seeing this, I messsged a few friends and my buddy immediately went and bought a Moro 07 Limited!


I need a new bike like a hole in the head and have been debating myself all day on taking advantage of this deal. Hold me back!

 

[YZDude]

Ever have buddies you would ride with, but they don’t have an ebike? Or yours is down for something and you miss a ride day? (Assuming you have ebike already)

Do it…!