Levociraptor, Turbo Levo motor failure and warranty void.

[robertbreyer]

Got a Levociraptor chip with a 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo 2nd gen. Motor failed. Clutch I believe. Second motor. About 2 months old, ridden twice. Specialized won't replace or repair due to "warranty voided".
I did the TCU reset but somehow Specialized still picked it up. Wheel diameter set to 1,000mm.
Any words of advice?
Did the TCU reset not work?
Does Specialized store data on their side with my bike details? Big brother watching me?

 

[Cb750stu]

Did you remove the Levociraptor from the bike ??

 

[robertbreyer]

yes of course. that seems obvious.

 

[Mikerb]

new motor, new firmware. Just like every brand they continue to develop firmware to defeat derestriction devices. I assume in this case the component scan history can no longer be erased by doing a TCU reset.

 

[Moe Ped]

Did the TCU reset not work?

Sounds like you have answered your own question

 

[weihlac]

Got a Levociraptor chip with a 2020 Specialized Turbo Levo 2nd gen. Motor failed. Clutch I believe. Second motor. About 2 months old, ridden twice. Specialized won't replace or repair due to "warranty voided".
I did the TCU reset but somehow Specialized still picked it up. Wheel diameter set to 1,000mm.
Any words of advice?
Did the TCU reset not work?
Does Specialized store data on their side with my bike details? Big brother watching me?
View attachment 131583

So rebuild the motor and move on. Yes, you got caught. Feel free to do anything you want with your rebuilt motor and prepare to rebuild it again.

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www.ebikemotorcentre.com

 

[beutelfuchs]

Sure it was due to the Levociraptor and not because you went out of the warrenty period? You say it's a gen2, Spec gives 2y of warrenty.

 

[lanceclifford]

Same thing just happened to me this week. Blew up motor #3 (bike has 6,600 miles on it) on my Kenevo Expert. Have always had Levociraptor on the bike, and have simply removed/reset in the past. Well apparently that doesn't work anymore. They denied me warranty because they saw evidence of the Levociraptor. I sent the motor to ebikemotorrepair.com and they are taking care of it.

 

[rmr]

bump - has anyone found a workaround for this?

 

[lisalis]

Damn this should be sticky everywhere. It is now proven that specialized DEFINITELY see if velociraptor was installed..
Maybe other devices uses different tricks and it's not visible ? Or do they all use the same tricks ?

 

[Mikerb]

Firmware on all bikes now no doubt includes greater capacity for both detecting and storing data of a derestriction device. They all use CAN networks the same as has been standard in the auto industry for years. A CAN network is essentially one that connects sensors with a controller. On our bikes the motor is fed with varying Watts from the battery in accordance with speed, cadence and rider torque input...all elements that have sensors.. It is fairly easy therefore for the controller to determine when the results are abnormal.

 

[lisalis]

Firmware on all bikes now no doubt includes greater capacity for both detecting and storing data of a derestriction device. They all use CAN networks the same as has been standard in the auto industry for years. A CAN network is essentially one that connects sensors with a controller. On our bikes the motor is fed with varying Watts from the battery in accordance with speed, cadence and rider torque input...all elements that have sensors.. It is fairly easy therefore for the controller to determine when the results are abnormal.

Yeah but there are still tons of people claiming tuning devices cannot be detected.
It seems like last solution is basically flashing US software into EU bikes.
This should be totally doable tho.. No way the motor has something hard coded by region. It should be possible to duplicate and copy it

 

[lisalis]

What's odd is that there is no port to retrieve the data from on the motor so how they install things onto it ?

 

[Mikerb]

What's odd is that there is no port to retrieve the data from on the motor so how they install things onto it ?

via Firmware. Each major component, battery, motor, and controller have CPUs. Most controllers have USB port for LBS connection.

I also suspect some of the more recent motors have a GPS chip fitted on the motor PCB meaning the Controller is not limited to monitoring rear wheel rotation to determine speed.

 

[lisalis]

via Firmware. Each major component, battery, motor, and controller have CPUs. Most controllers have USB port for LBS connection.

I also suspect some of the more recent motors have a GPS chip fitted on the motor PCB meaning the Controller is not limited to monitoring rear wheel rotation to determine speed.

Yeah but i looked and didnt find standard firmware ports on the brose motor to basically flash the US firmware. Because it could be possible to put something that basically duplicate the firmware into a storing device that can then be copied and transfered/flashed onto EU motors to let them bypass region restriction.
So IF anyone has data on how to access the firmware and copy it i'm down to investigate more but it seemed more closed than i wished lol

 

[Mikerb]

correct.....all firmware is flashed via the controller whether via USB or blutooth. I am not sure whether it is possible to achieve what you want to do since whilst the mechanicals of any motor sold into the European or US market will be the same, the programming of that motor may be hard wired to conform to legislation in that geography and cannot be altered.
Your most likely ( but expensive) solution is to purchase a motor that is designated US and swop out your existing motor. you would still then need a LBS to plug in to enable the Controller to recognise that motor..........something no LBS is likely to do without question!!
.........................or you could emigrate to the US

 

[Embt]

Fly to America cycle back

 

[lisalis]

correct.....all firmware is flashed via the controller whether via USB or blutooth. I am not sure whether it is possible to achieve what you want to do since whilst the mechanicals of any motor sold into the European or US market will be the same, the programming of that motor may be hard wired to conform to legislation in that geography and cannot be altered.
Your most likely ( but expensive) solution is to purchase a motor that is designated US and swop out your existing motor. you would still then need a LBS to plug in to enable the Controller to recognise that motor..........something no LBS is likely to do without question!!
.........................or you could emigrate to the US

i mean they probably don't have to hard wire them because everything is lock behind the dealer software etc. Maybe they did tho idk it just seems like it's not the easiest option.
If there isnt a solution there tuning kits are probably out of the question forever in warranty time since they kill it

 

[beutelfuchs]

Pretty sure the motor FW gets updated via CAN bus, same as control units in cars

 

[lisalis]

Btw shouldnt a derestricter which works only with the speed sensor actually work without being noticed ? Same as the planet 3 but with false digital readings ? Without changing the wheel diameter ?
We know the velociraptor change the wheel diameter and that some other tuning kits does the same but something like the volabike Delimiter for Brose (Specialized) seems to mess only with the speed sensor

 

[Grannyjones]

This really is awful news. Is de restriction not viable anymore ? Considering that these motors don't seem to last more than a few months before failure, the warranties are essential

Is the warranty void just on the motor alone or is it void on the entire bike ?

 

[Grannyjones]

That really really sucks if there is no way of de restricting bikes anymore. The limit of 15mph seriously sucks. Who wants to pay £5000+ for an E Bike that doesn't provide power above 15mph ? That limit is only okay if 100% of your riding is steep uphill and steep downhill but unfortunately it is not like this anywhere near 100% of the time and when it's not then the 15mph limit seriously sucks


When I first got into MTB I was suprised how much it involves riding on the road to link sections together, and these road sections are a big part of mountain bike riding and a 15mph limit on these is a serious problem.

 

[Grannyjones]

I really hope that they raise the legal limit higher than 15mph in the UK or at least in England.

If it was 20mph it wouldn't be too bad and I bet most wouldn't bother de restricting their bikes if it was this

Not only is it ruining Emtb but it's also killing the usefulness of E Bikes for commuting as well and just forcing more people to use cars, which for some reason are allowed to go above the (already much higher) speed limit all the time even though they are a million times more destructive

 

[Embt]

I really hope that they raise the legal limit higher than 15mph in the UK or at least in England.

If it was 20mph it wouldn't be too bad and I bet most wouldn't bother de restricting their bikes if it was this

Not only is it ruining Emtb but it's also killing the usefulness of E Bikes for commuting as well and just forcing more people to use cars, which for some reason are allowed to go above the (already much higher) speed limit all the time even though they are a million times more destructive

Thing is ebikes r heavy and hitting some1 will break their leg 20 is pretty fast on my ebike.
But I'm all for de restricting to atleast 19 mph its so much more fun. And going down a hill on a MTB doing 20 would be super fun too.

I do see where the government is coming from but 15.5 is to slow even 17. 5 mph is better

 

[irie]

... And going down a hill on a MTB doing 20 would be super fun too.

Down a hill at 20mph, wtf?

Turned the motor off on a really steep rough trail and got this (Trek Rail). So much vibration that started seeing double tbh

 

[Mikerb]

There are some things you can do to be able to maintain more speed on both tarmac and flat singletrack. There is no speed limiter, just a limit to motor assist. When ride in the forests it is all steep downhill or riding back up to trailhead so not an issue. When we ride cross country we cannot avoid a few road sections. What slows you down after the motor cuts out on those sections can be alleviated by using lighter weight and faster rolling tyres....tyres that still provide enough grip on off road terrain...at least in summer conditions. Also run with higher pressures. Then get used to using lower gears/ higher cadence before the cut off speed. Be aware that also on the open road speeds much more than 15mph start produce quite a bit of wind resistance.....and our bikes and our usual baggy riding gear have a lot of wind resistance!! Even wide knobbly tires increase that...which you soon discover in any sort of crosswind!
My bike is 26kg with full enduro geo etc....I can maintain 17/18 mph on open road as long as there is no strong headwind.

 

[Embt]

Down a hill at 20mph, wtf?

Turned the motor off on a really steep rough trail and got this (Trek Rail). So much vibration that started seeing double tbh

View attachment 146136

My golly that is fast.

 

[Embt]

There are some things you can do to be able to maintain more speed on both tarmac and flat singletrack. There is no speed limiter, just a limit to motor assist. When ride in the forests it is all steep downhill or riding back up to trailhead so not an issue. When we ride cross country we cannot avoid a few road sections. What slows you down after the motor cuts out on those sections can be alleviated by using lighter weight and faster rolling tyres....tyres that still provide enough grip on off road terrain...at least in summer conditions. Also run with higher pressures. Then get used to using lower gears/ higher cadence before the cut off speed. Be aware that also on the open road speeds much more than 15mph start produce quite a bit of wind resistance.....and our bikes and our usual baggy riding gear have a lot of wind resistance!! Even wide knobbly tires increase that...which you soon discover in any sort of crosswind!
My bike is 26kg with full enduro geo etc....I can maintain 17/18 mph on open road as long as there is no strong headwind.

My bike is 28kg I could do 17 mph with no wind if I really tried.
My road bike I did atleast 23mph with the wind. I live in a really windy city on the coast.

Ye but surley MTBing there r some flats and u would like to speed up to 20mph if it was de restricted.

Ebikes r pointless going past assisted so much effort gaining 1mph doing 17 mph

 

[Mikerb]

Down a hill at 20mph, wtf?

Turned the motor off on a really steep rough trail and got this (Trek Rail). So much vibration that started seeing double tbh
Don't understand why folk bother turning the motor off to freewheel downhill.....it merely stops any assist which you would not be calling for anyway so there is no battery saving by doing so.
View attachment 146136

 

[irie]

Force of habit, just don't like stuff 'on' that has no function.