Levo SL or Trek Rail dilemma

[Pop Larkin]

Hi guys - I’m new to ebikes so after some advice please. Main reason for looking to buy one now is that I had a bad brush with Covid 19 which has given my lungs a battering ( 11 days in icu - stay distancing folks!!!)
Anyway looking at best way to get biking again and am taken by the Rail 7 or 9.7 and Levo SL- I realise they are slightly different hence my dilemma- I suppose I’m concerned the spesh won’t give enough assistance at first and the rail may give too much once I hopefully get the lungs back in working order- demo rides are nigh on impossible so any experience views greatly appreciated

 

[LemonDrop]

Glad you are doing better! I was in the same boat 2 months ago and went ahead and bought the 9.7.
The spesh motor on the SL does not feel like an Emtb motor, and feels more like an added effect. Somehow the feel of the motor is very different than other emtb’s. Maybe because it’s coming from a road bike....not sure. Also spesh was harder to ride on anything > 30deg climb. My master plan is to give these lighter bikes a few years to iterate and mature and then buy. Trek on the other hand has been solid - peace of mind and do anything bike. Rail 9 is a better option than the 9.7 as it has all the comps of the 9.8 except the carbon frame. I wanted the carbon frame for its ‘give’ factor and am really happy with it.

 

[Pop Larkin]

Cheers- that's where my mind is currently as if the assistance isn't enough I may as well stay with my Tallboy

I prefer the 7 to the 9 as I'm not a big fan of SRAM and my sensible head is saying alloy will be fine......

 

[Forever Wild]

I purchased a Trek Powerfly 9.7 in March 2020 and a Kenevo in May. The trek feels way heavier and find myself using Turbo a lot. Eco on the Trek is useless. I find the Kenevo feels lighter and more fun. The Kenevo I have has the 1.2E motor and therefore way less power than the Trek. The power delivery on Specialized is way better. Smoother. More natural. I find myself using ECO on the Kenevo and don’t feel there’s a power letdown. In ECO the Kenevo only gives me 33% motor assist and it feels great. There’s only one EMTB that has less power than my 1.2E motor and that’s the Levo SL. Based on my experience. My next EMTB will be a Levo SL.

 

[Pop Larkin]

Interesting as everything I read suggests the Kenevo is a bit of a downhill beast with the most power- hasn't the rail a different motor than the power fly?

 

[Forever Wild]

Interesting as everything I read suggests the Kenevo is a bit of a downhill beast with the most power- hasn't the rail a different motor than the power fly?

Nope. My 2020 Powerfly LT 9.7 has a very similar spec as the Rail. My Trek LBS often mistake it for a Rail. I just don’t like the trek/Bosch system. Feels like a tank. I bought two of them in March. One for me and one for my wife. Even my wife believes the Kenevo is a lighter bike with better power delivery. My Kenevo was bought new in May but it’s a 2019 Comp. The only Specialized EMTB with a 1.2E motor. It only has 60 nM torque. I almost didn’t buy it because of the motor. I rode the Kenevo on a test track along with a Levo, Pivot, Giant and Haibike. The Kenevo rode the best.
I think if I could go back in time. I would not have bought the two Treks. I would have purchased either two Levos or two Kenevos.

I rode my Kenevo this morning for 20 miles. I was in ECO the entire time. I used 248 wh of battery. My peak biker power was 548 watts and averaged 144 watts. My peak motor power was 578 watts and averaged 198 watts.

So you can see that the “little” 1.2E motor does just fine. I kept thinking the entire ride that this Kenevo is awesome. It felt solid and planted. Power delivery is excellent.

It is why I believe my next Ebike is a Levo SL.

my two cents...

 

[Doomanic]

I purchased a Trek Powerfly 9.7 in March 2020 and a Kenevo in May. The trek feels way heavier and find myself using Turbo a lot. Eco on the Trek is useless. I find the Kenevo feels lighter and more fun. The Kenevo I have has the 1.2E motor and therefore way less power than the Trek. The power delivery on Specialized is way better. Smoother. More natural. I find myself using ECO on the Kenevo and don’t feel there’s a power letdown. In ECO the Kenevo only gives me 33% motor assist and it feels great. There’s only one EMTB that has less power than my 1.2E motor and that’s the Levo SL. Based on my experience. My next EMTB will be a Levo SL.

Interesting. The Kenevo is heavier than the Powerfly, even if it doesn't feel it, but that may be because the way Bosch and Spesh describe the assist in each mode is different.

Bosch Eco assist is 60% of rider input. For every watt the rider produces, the motor adds 0.6W
Brose Eco assist is 33% of total available assist. Total assist on the 1.2E is (I think) 340% so for every watt the rider produces the motor adds 33% of a possible 3.4W (340% assist) so about 1.1W, nearly double the power output of the Bosch.

 

[LemonDrop]

Nope. My 2020 Powerfly LT 9.7 has a very similar spec as the Rail. My Trek LBS often mistake it for a Rail. I just don’t like the trek/Bosch system. Feels like a tank. I bought two of them in March. One for me and one for my wife. Even my wife believes the Kenevo is a lighter bike with better power delivery. My Kenevo was bought new in May but it’s a 2019 Comp. The only Specialized EMTB with a 1.2E motor. It only has 60 nM torque. I almost didn’t buy it because of the motor. I rode the Kenevo on a test track along with a Levo, Pivot, Giant and Haibike. The Kenevo rode the best.
I think if I could go back in time. I would not have bought the two Treks. I would have purchased either two Levos or two Kenevos.

I rode my Kenevo this morning for 20 miles. I was in ECO the entire time. I used 248 wh of battery. My peak biker power was 548 watts and averaged 144 watts. My peak motor power was 578 watts and averaged 198 watts.

So you can see that the “little” 1.2E motor does just fine. I kept thinking the entire ride that this Kenevo is awesome. It felt solid and planted. Power delivery is excellent.

It is why I believe my next Ebike is a Levo SL.

my two cents...

powerfly and rail are 2 different beasts - way different geometry. Kenevo is a planted downhill monster and has great power delivery profile Whereas the rail 9.7 is really agile and playful on all types of terrain. Plus you get the added benefit of the mino link to increase/decrease the slack angle. Agree with eco mode - way less assist but the EMTB mode is amazing on the trek bikes.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Ultimately, everyone normally thinks their e-bike is best. That's going to be their opinion. The only ones who are right though are people with 2018/2019 Kenevos ! Uhmmm .. maybe I'm biast.

Ideally, you probably want to look at and have a go on the bikes, though with availability being low that might be difficult.

Other things to consider, the SL is a lot lighter as a bike if you think you might have to manhandle it a lot. For instance moving it around physically like lifting it over gates, onto car roofs. Also, when riding, consider what kind of trails you ride and how you ride. If you're riding fast gnarly downhills, you have to work to move a Kenevo or a Rail about, there's more mass. You'll feel it in your shoulders at the end of the day and ultimately this is also going to tire you out - these are the times you're not using the motor as you'll be above the assistance speed and using gravity more.

If you're more trail orientated, you won't notice the mass as much and you'll potentially appreciate the extra assistance on climbs of a "full fat" bike over the SL.

A good person to aid would be @p3eps . He started with a Rail 9.9 but swapped to an SL as he felt the Rail more assistance than he needed. But we, and our requirements, are all different.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

But we, and our requirements, are all different.

Such a great point.

For my riding right now which is mostly in the Surrey Hills, I'd choose the Levo SL 100% of the time for my go to bike. BUT the Surrey Hills doesn't have monster climbs, is pretty easy going, loam / dirt, short sharp trails with short climbs. The Levo SL is a brilliant bike for this kind of environment.

In the Alps (or Scotland / Wales etc) where there are some super steep climbs that last for thousands of feet, the SL isn't the best choice if you want a fast climbing bike, or are heavier / unfit, or ride with other full fat bikes that are turbo drunk on the climbs. The Rail would be a great choice here.

The Rail is a very good bike. Especially with the new Bosch update. It'd be superb on technical climbs (amongst other things).

The most important thing is to match the bike with what you ride. There is no such thing as a best bike. (Just like an F1 car would be a useless off road swamper. An off road swamper would be a useless race car.) You gotta choose your weapon.

SL / Rail are very very different bikes and both excel at different areas.

Good luck with your purchase, ebikes are cool as fuck.

 

[Pop Larkin]

All good input thanks - my riding is Cannock, peaks and we also have a place in north wales so plenty of potential for steep and rocky where the extra grunt of the rail or similar may come in handy - pre Covid I probably would have been all over the Levo SL but I think I’m leaning to the rail for the immediate benefit and when I get back to normal ( hopeful that I will) I may look at the lighter options

 

[Forever Wild]

powerfly and rail are 2 different beasts - way different geometry. Kenevo is a planted downhill monster and has great power delivery profile Whereas the rail 9.7 is really agile and playful on all types of terrain. Plus you get the added benefit of the mino link to increase/decrease the slack angle. Agree with eco mode - way less assist but the EMTB mode is amazing on the trek bikes.

I’ve ridden a 2020 Rail and a 2020 powerfly LT 9.7. Rode the same to me in the trails i ride. I bought the powerfly over the rail because of the spec sheet for the price. (Carbon Frame, Long Travel suspension, brakes and slack angle) I just like my Kenevo way better. I ride them both 2-3 times a week each (600 miles on the trek since March and 350 on the Kenevo since May) I’m not a guy bashing Treks from afar. I own two of them. They ride heavier. Simply put. Kenevo rides lighter.

But agreed. To each their own.

 

[p3eps]

As Zimmerframe has said, I’ve gone from a Rail 9.9 to a Levo SL.

It’s all down to what you want to do with the bike.
I live in Scotland, and can do over 1000m accent over the course of a 15mile ride. That also means I do 1000m of descent though!

I bought the Rail as I felt my legs needed a bit of help. Some technical climbs were just a bit too much for me. There were also some sections just too steep for me. I’m a relatively fit 42 year old, but pre Covid was only getting out once a week. I’m probably out 3 times a week just now, so much fitter than I’ve ever been!

The Rail felt like it breezed up the climbs with minimal effort. I could fly up parts that I’d never been able to climb on my Stumpjumper. The power was amazing, and I was getting round my usual 1hr 25min circuit in 45mins. I genuinely felt like I was cheating!

A few weeks into ownership, the SL was released, and I got a test ride of one immediately. I was now scared that I’d be hooked on the speed!
I rode the same round in just over an hour. Practically in the middle of the Rail / Stumpy.
I felt like it gave me the boost I needed, but didn’t feel like I was riding a motorcycle!

As time has gone on, I’ve reduced the assist on the SL, and run it 99% of the time on 35% assistance (35/75) which allows me to still get a good workout, but have a little bit of help. I can always whack it up to Turbo (100/100) if there is something I can’t manage.

As per above - what you need from a bike depends completely on YOU! See if you can test them in the environment you actually ride in, and see how they perform. If you’re used to a clockwork bike, you’d be surprised how much help you get from the SL’s ‘little’ motor!

 

[Pop Larkin]

Oh Lordy- main issue is I’m really struggling to get a demo Of either - my conundrum is will the Levo SL on full assist be enough In the early days of recovery to get my fitness back and will the Rail be great for the early days and then be too much assistance once I am fitter ??
P3EPS- What sort of ride time are you getting on the Spesh

 

[Doug Stampfer]

To me they seem like bikes that are worlds apart. I have a Rail 7 which suits me & the hell tracks I like to ride but a SL (never ridden one I confess) I would have thought would be right at the XC end of the spectrum. In between there are a thousand other bikes that would probably be suitable. I ghotta agree with Zimmer - it's my shoulders that feel it after a good days riding on the rail

 

[Forever Wild]

Interesting. The Kenevo is heavier than the Powerfly, even if it doesn't feel it, but that may be because the way Bosch and Spesh describe the assist in each mode is different.

Bosch Eco assist is 60% of rider input. For every watt the rider produces, the motor adds 0.6W
Brose Eco assist is 33% of total available assist. Total assist on the 1.2E is (I think) 340% so for every watt the rider produces the motor adds 33% of a possible 3.4W (340% assist) so about 1.1W, nearly double the power output of the Bosch.

Great info. That explains the difference in ECO. The Powerfly has midfat tires (2.8) and 40mm wide rims. It probably has higher unsprung weight making it feel heavier.

 

[Pop Larkin]

Thanks Doug - and while I agree to a point both have similar travel- not many 150mm travel xc machines Out there - the Levo SL is based on the Stumpjumper I believe ?

 

[p3eps]

P3EPS- What sort of ride time are you getting on the Spesh

Totally depends on what and where you ride. I don’t have a range extender, so am only using the internal battery.
I’ve had over 40 miles / 850m of mainly trail riding with a bit of road and returned home after 3 1/2 hours with about 15% battery.

I’ve barely ridden the bike out of lockdown, so haven’t been to some of my regular trails yet... but have done under 20 miles / 1200m in under 2 hours and got the red <10% light! Lots of gloopy mud too.

Too many factors to give an accurate answer I’m afraid.

 

[Rich the gasman]

My 2 cents. Used to be fit, got injured, bought a FF levo expert last year. First few rides was a honey moon period, unfortunately I had multiple problems with mine but still did more riding in 8 month than previous 2 years on normal bike. Anyway, I found the ff I was a passenger and it was like riding a tank, I rarely ever used turbo and had all settings turned down as I just didn’t need all that power. I ride my local - Hamsterley, all the off piste and dh trails, Lake District, the golfie, inners etc And I longed to have that normal bike feel. I got rid of levo and been on a megatower this year but I just ain’t getting out like I used to. I spoke with many on here (cheers at the bike pilot) and as soon as the SL came out I wanted it, but just bough my mega?‍.
anyway today I just hammered the SL down some narly DH & enduro trails and set some Prs, I’ve made upgrades but still for this month it’s 150mm front and rear, I plan on going 160mm and coil. This bike can do anything, but you have to put effort in, I’d rather be a few mins slower up hill to have more of a blast downhill.

today was a set up and test day, I did 15 mile, 3k ft climbing, mainly in trail and turbo and had 25% left. I’m a heavy lad and was carrying stuff for testing.

 

[Moe Ped]

I have the SL and a Merida e160 10k Which would be similar To the rail from a spec point of view.

I came off a Santa Cruz Tallboy and bought the Merida first, I could not stop smiling every time I rode it and could do anything no matter how hard. My son and the other people I ride with all use non ebikes so I was always feeling like I was cheating even though they were fitter and faster I could fly past them on anything with an incline.

Since I have had the SL it feels right for riding with them, maybe consider who you will be riding with that may Make a difference.

I am keeping both for now as I really like the Merida as well.

 

[MrBrownstone]

You can get just as good a workout on full fat as you can the SL, you’ll just get a way more exhilarating feeling while going hard on full fat and tackle steeper climbs and techy lines that may be impossible on the SL. Even on flattish rolling twisty trails where some may say the SL is the bike to go with, I actually much prefer RIPPING out of corners and up short punchy climbs with the more powerful full fat. Adrenalin and all that. Fast is fun. It’s not just about your fitness and the terrain you ride, it’s about how you want to ride it. Pull some g’s, go full fat!!!?

 

[boBE]

The SL is not a XC bike as delivered but it doesn't take much to turn it into one (just as I did with my acoustic hardtail when I got it). Change the wheels and tires; shorten the handlebars; soften the suspension; and it makes a great long distance ride. I regularly go 30+ miles and am planning a 50+ day.