Levo SL Gen 1 Levo SL 20,000.00 Canadian dollars

[Rusty]

Yes but bare in mind that motorcycles have been in existence for 100 plus year and subject to constant development over that time, with significant economies of scale compared to EMTB's many of which are ground up first time designs/developments

I dont disagree that comparing an EMTB to plenty of other products shows dramatic lack of value, but also its perfectly possible to get a great EMTB for sub 5k, and even considerably less than that.

Kind a joke to compare ebike to a motorbike as they have been available since world was flat.
Ebikes have here for couple of years.

Just dont buy them if you are worried about some problems that might arrive.

Lets just bring this into perspective. Comparing to a motorcycle is actually a valid comparison.

The first motorcycle was around 1885 and the first bicycle about 50 or 60 years earlier so in the scheme of things they are from a similar generation. I would argue that there has been more technological development put into motorcycles due to their complexity, but I think that it really shows the laziness of the cycle industry.
For sure there have been many changes, but really, the disk brake is just a miniaturization of existing hydraulic brake technology. What are we running now - 12sp rear? Still a similar type of set-up since 1950(sh). Yes there are now Rohloffs etc, but they are not OEM.
Face it, most things are re-developments of something outside the bicycle area and scaled to fit.
True the ebike is a new(sh) development, but again if we look at where the technology came from both Bosch and Brose are makers of things like motors for seats, wiper systems etc and have just re-developed something.

The thing that totally gets me riled up is the price. Compare a similar component and the motorcycle one is by far better value for the dollar than the bicycle one.
The reason?
Mostly in my opinion because many cyclists tend to have a bent towards being weight-watching weenies and will pay ridiculous money to save a few grams. After a while there is a re-adjustment (when something even lighter turns up) and the run of the mill 8sp suddenly becomes a 10sp with the associated higher cost... yet the average cyclist ponies up for it because we are told it is so much better.
Right now with eMTB I think something in the 8-9sp range would be perfect. Not only lighter, but cheaper too.

Oh ...

E:spesh will never be the ”budget” brand.

So true - Shesh have been 10-20% over-priced as long as I can remember.

 

[Gary]

The thing that totally gets me riled up is the price. Compare a similar component and the motorcycle one is by far better value for the dollar than the bicycle one.

The reason?

Mostly in my opinion because many cyclists tend to have a bent towards being weight-watching weenies and will pay ridiculous money to save a few grams.

Really?

A light weight bicycle doesn't have to cost a ton of money, just as a super powerful engined motorcycle doesn't have to...
The very newest, lightest or fastest. Pick two of of either? Then yes.. .you generally have to pay a premium.
Some folk are willing to. you're not. Why cry about it?

So true - Shesh have been 10-20% over-priced as long as I can remember.

Do you remember as far back as 2001/2?
Specialized brought the Big hit and Enduro SX out and were asking a mere $550 for each frame. Both of which were alloy monocoque front ends, 4 bar horst link rears with up to the minute geometry (still ahead of it's time with the SX TBH) and both came with top of the line Fox shocks (Which would have cost at least $350 if bought separately). when the closest rival to each frame was either an Intense M1 or Intense Tazer (costing $2500 and $2000 respectively).

The spesh Allez road bike is still an absolute bargain at around $500 and I'd put money on Segan still being able to finish Le Tour on one if it's all he had... do you think the same could be said of any of the top riders in motorcycle racing at the highest level on say a $20000 motorcycle straight out the dealership?

If you're comparing bicycles to motorcycles be realistic and compare the latest cutting edge bicycles to the latest cutting edge motorcycles. (Nothing major has changed with those in years either TBF)

how about this affordable little red number?
Ducati Desmosedici D16RR NCR M16 – $232,500

or maybe orange is more your colour?...
Ecosse ES1 Spirit – $3.6 million

Probably about time to STFU about motorcycles now, eh?

 

[sb5050]

What a total joke Spesh give your head a shake 20k Canada I. For a bike with half the battery and half the motor power?????
The normal expert Levo I bought from you was 11k that was crazy enough but 20k lol. Maybe I’ll have to start looking at other brands from here in.

Specialized is trying to be the Ferrari of the bike world. Unlike Ferrari, they do offer some affordable versions of their top bikes. A Chevrolet Corvette is much more affordable than a typical Ferrari or McClaren and gives nearly the same performance. The bike world is similar IMHO. Specialized has just set the bar and other manufacturers will follow and undercut them on price and possibly give even better performance. I havea 2020 Turbo Levo Comp and it gives me nearly the same performance as an S-Works Turbo Levo. Other manufacturers will make more affordable bikes with similar performance. We just have to ride our current bikes and wait.

 

[Rusty]

Really?

Probably about time to STFU about motorcycles now, eh?

Ahhh - NO

 

[Gary]

I meant me.
I've far too many motorcycle bore mates to ever believe they can be capable of STFU

 

[Gary]

Oh... no... the car bores are here now...

what have you done?

 

[Captain45]

Kind a joke to compare ebike to a motorbike as they have been available since world was flat.
Ebikes have here for couple of years.

Just dont buy them if you are worried about some problems that might arrive.

Perhaps but let's be real with our selves here. An ebike isn't that complex nor are any of the Components really cutting edge technology here. Electric motors and batteries have been around for decades and mountain bikes have been in production just as long. Combining a simple mechanical battery operated motor along with a battery and simple electronics into a newly designed frame to house it all isn't rocket science, or reinventing the wheel. If small backyard shed emtb manufactorers are accomplishing it then that speaks to the feasibility and low cost of it.

Listen I'm not saying I don't appreciate the ebike world and developments manufacturers are providing us, it's exciting and cool but I do think the credit of "ground breaking" and "state of the art" is a bit over exaggerated to justify some of these prices as of late, especially since every producer out there are experiencing severe mechanical failures with their products. I think at this stage in the hobby we should start seeing a reduction of prices and better reliability and function through more r&d rather than $17000 special editions. I can see price gouging initially as the market of demand was completely unknown but those statistics and manufacturering inventory risk is much more easily measurable.

 

[Gary]

Perhaps but let's be real with our selves here. An ebike Motorcycle isn't that complex nor are any of the Components really cutting edge technology here. Electric Petrol motors and batteries have been around for decades and mountain Motorbikes have been in production just as long. Combining a simple mechanical battery petrol operated motor along with a battery and simple electronics into a newly designed frame to house it all isn't rocket science, or reinventing the wheel. If small backyard shed emtb motorcycle manufactorers are accomplishing it then that speaks to the feasibility and low cost of it.

Er... can run that by us all again?

 

[Captain45]

Perhaps but let's be real with our selves here. An ebike Motorcycle isn't that complex nor are any of the Components really cutting edge technology here. Electric motors and batteries have been around for decades and mountain Motorbikes have been in production just as long. Combining a simple mechanical battery petrol operated motor along with a battery and simple electronics into a newly designed frame to house it all isn't rocket science, or reinventing the wheel. If small backyard shed emtb motorcycle manufactorers are accomplishing it then that speaks to the feasibility and low cost of it.

Er... can run that by us all again?

lol what? so you're saying the hundreds of motorcycle components are a ton less expensive and harder to engineer just because they have been around longer than a dozen or so eMTB components (even though the only difference of emTB components vs analog MTB components is the simple motor and battery and wiring)

 

[Gary]

Read it again...


Slowly

 

[Captain45]

Read it again...


Slowly

did, dont understand your point sorry.

 

[Gary]

Try again...

I'm sure you'll get there.


...eventually

 

[Captain45]

Try again...

I'm sure you'll get there.


...eventually

Patronizing, and I probably won't. your statement is too vague of a comparison and tbf I dont really care that much to decrypt it Also, your comparison of those motorcycles is wildly disproportionate. That Ducati edition and Ecosse are one of a kind editions, they are not mass produced and consumer based available, you'd want to compare one of their top of the line motorbikes on their website readily available at a dealer for a reasonable apples to apples price showdown. However It is funny we;re talking about Ducati, I just saw they have their own emtb out to market at $6k while I was looking at motorcycles on their website.

 

[Gary]

There's nothing to decrypt.
I simply edited YOUR statement and changed "Ebike" to "Motorcycle" in an attempt to show just what a pointless comparison you'd made.

Also, your comparison of those motorcycles is wildly disproportionate

It's actually not. Bar the paint I can go to any Specialized dealer and buy the exact same frame the current mens UCI World DH mtb champs was won on this year. or the frame that took the Women's UCI XC overall title or the frame for my girlfriend or even the frames that won this years TdF points jersey and spec any of them exactly the same as the professional athletes who rode them to victory. All 3 for what I'd deem an affordable amount.
Can you do the same for the World Superbike, Moto GP or Supercross champion's bikes?
No. Not affordably... So no. It's definitely not apples for apples is it?
and other than in your head. There is no showdown!

The automotive industry is massive with hugely larger funding/manufacturing power and sales revenue than the cycle industry... whether we're talking shitey budget dealer/showroom learners models or one-offs and/or race bikes.
There simply isn't the money/profit in the cycle industry you seem to believe there is.
So why even mention motorcycles?

Can't afford something? Fine! Don't buy it! Don't start whinging about it and trying to justify your moaning by mentioning and comparing it with another complely irelevant product though. Just move on and be happy with what you can afford.

 

[Jamsxr]

It’s largely a vanity parade, we’re all guilty of it to some extent. We don’t need the marginal gains offered by these high end bikes (although we do a good job of convincing each other we do) and we’re certainly not going to have any more fun on them, but shiny exclusive stuff makes us feel better about ourselves.

 

[Joeyrotundo]

Spesh do this with other bikes too...

View attachment 25838

Specialized 2020 S-Works Venge Di2 â Sagan Collection LTD

it's nothing new...
And certainly nothing to get your knickers in a bunch over

I thought that said Vegan Collection at first just about had a stroke!
Never say never though.

 

[Gary]

just about had a stroke!

Too much information Bro.
What you do in your own time over vegetables is your business
#NotHatinJusSayin

 

[Captain45]

There's nothing to decrypt.
I simply edited YOUR statement and changed "Ebike" to "Motorcycle" in an attempt to show just what a pointless comparison you'd made.


It's actually not. Bar the paint I can go to any Specialized dealer and buy the exact same frame the current mens UCI World DH mtb champs was won on this year. or the frame that took the Women's UCI XC overall title or the frame for my girlfriend or even the frames that won this years TdF points jersey and spec any of them exactly the same as the professional athletes who rode them to victory. All 3 for what I'd deem an affordable amount.
Can you do the same for the World Superbike, Moto GP or Supercross champion's bikes?
No. Not affordably... So no. It's definitely not apples for apples is it?
and other than in your head. There is no showdown!

The automotive industry is massive with hugely larger funding/manufacturing power and sales revenue than the cycle industry... whether we're talking shitey budget dealer/showroom learners models or one-offs and/or race bikes.
There simply isn't the money/profit in the cycle industry you seem to believe there is.
So why even mention motorcycles?

Can't afford something? Fine! Don't buy it! Don't start whinging about it and trying to justify your moaning by mentioning and comparing it with another complely irelevant product though. Just move on and be happy with what you can afford.

There is absolutely nothing pointless about my statement at all. I am merely stating and comparing that the smaller engineering that goes into creating an ebike along with less expensive, less complex components while costing the same as a high performance motorcycle with no doubt far more engineering, tolerances, electronics, metals, electrical, sensors, filters, carbon fiber, safety regulations, testing, research etc etc is a bit wonky. You crossing out emtb and replacing with motorcycle makes absolutely no sense at all.

And yes your comparison against those motorcycles also makes absolutely no sense and IS disproportionate. Just because you can race and win on an emtb bike frame out of a shop and you can't on a motogp frame affordably has no bearing in comparing two consumer product value of equal availability and purpose based solely on the class of a competitive sport. Those two bikes you posted as an example of why we shouldn't be comparing a new emtb to a motorocyle just doesn't compare. Those two bikes you posted are one of a kind. Only one has been produced by an incredible team of engineers and aren't meant for public consumption, they are simply engineering feats. You are trying to compare a mass produced new emtb to like a 5 million dollar electric hypercar, the ones that are only made by a manufacturer like Bugatti or McLaren to say "yeah we made the fastest car ever" but you can't buy one. An appropriate comparison would be something mass produced and available like a hybrid Porsche panamera or telsa 3.... Or like my original Comparison of the best hobby purpose emtb to the best hobby purpose Sportbike a normal consumer can purchase.

So what your saying is its not important for folks in a community to voice their opinion and provide constructive feedback of what they think about products and pricing released to them? We should all just stay completely quiet about the industry, where it's headed and it's trends and how that might impact the consumer? We are all very well in support of our ebike brands, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a pulse check thread to spesh and say, "wait we love the direction but we aren't really cool with the inflating pricing, let's keep at it and keep it reasonable".

 

[Gary]

smaller engineering that goes into creating an ebike along with less expensive, less complex components

Than a basic petrol motorcycle combustion engine?
You honestly think a brand new 800 quid engine has:

no doubt far more engineering, tolerances, electronics, metals, electrical, sensors, filters, carbon fiber, safety regulations, testing, research etc etc

Apples for apples. (Not that that saying makes any sense) go and find out what sort of brand new off the shelf engine you can buy for the same price as one of the more popular Emtb motors.

So what your saying is its not important for folks in a community to voice their opinion and provide constructive feedback of what they think about products and pricing released to them? We should all just stay completely quiet about the industry, where it's headed and it's trends and how that might impact the consumer?

No. just that you need to stop going on about motorcycles.
it's idiotic

 

[Gary]

there is absolutely nothing wrong with a pulse check thread to spesh and say, "wait we love the direction but we aren't really cool with the inflating pricing, let's keep at it and keep it reasonable".

I take it you're relatively new to cycling/biking and have never really noticed how Specialized operate as a company until your interest in Ebikes?

 

[Captain45]

Than a basic petrol motorcycle combustion engine?
You honestly think a brand new 800 quid engine has:

Hahaha haha are you serious?! You are dillusional at best.

Vs


You actually think otherwise?


I don't even like motorcycles all that much, just got sucked Into your patronizing asshole comments towards my original constructive post discussing pricing of this new bike. I'll end my discussion as it's apparent you are incapable of a decent human discussion, sidestep all of my rebuttals and result to insults to backup your lack of knowledge and fanboyism.

 

[Gary]

Hahaha haha are you serious?! You are dillusional at best.
View attachment 25886
Vs
View attachment 25887

You actually think otherwise?
.

Really?
That Ducati engine just so happens to costs many thousands of pounds over the 800 quid price of an Emtb motor.

I did try asking you politely to stop!

 

[TomH79]

 

[R120]

Actually I was wrong about how long EMTB motors have been in development for, I forgot that the Bosch and Brose motors have been powering windscreen wipers in trucks for a couple of decades before they where slung in a bike frame.

 

[Slowroller]

Actually I was wrong about how long EMTB motors have been in development for, I forgot that the Bosch and Brose motors have been powering windscreen wipers in trucks for a couple of decades before they where slung in a bike frame.

Windshield wiper motors that can't handle being wet.... lol

I couldn't help myself

 

[Joeyrotundo]

That argument could go back and forth all day.

 

[Doomanic]

No! Stop that right now! I can’t be doing with all these intermittent pun-tests.

 

[Surge]

If you can't afford it, don't moan about it. There's plenty of other bikes out there.

I can afford it but this is where I draw the line! Crazy and greedy.
I am lucky enough to have purchased a 2018 Epic SW, 2018 Turbo Levo SW, and a 2019 Venge SW. I only mention here to demonstrate that I can afford the Founder’s Edition. But at $20K ?! No way. The 2020 is about 30% more expensive than the 2018 or 2019. Why? There’s Zero reason for that. My corporate greed radar has hit the Red Zone. I’m out.

 

[Surge]

Lets just bring this into perspective. Comparing to a motorcycle is actually a valid comparison.

The first motorcycle was around 1885 and the first bicycle about 50 or 60 years earlier so in the scheme of things they are from a similar generation. I would argue that there has been more technological development put into motorcycles due to their complexity, but I think that it really shows the laziness of the cycle industry.
For sure there have been many changes, but really, the disk brake is just a miniaturization of existing hydraulic brake technology. What are we running now - 12sp rear? Still a similar type of set-up since 1950(sh). Yes there are now Rohloffs etc, but they are not OEM.
Face it, most things are re-developments of something outside the bicycle area and scaled to fit.
True the ebike is a new(sh) development, but again if we look at where the technology came from both Bosch and Brose are makers of things like motors for seats, wiper systems etc and have just re-developed something.

The thing that totally gets me riled up is the price. Compare a similar component and the motorcycle one is by far better value for the dollar than the bicycle one.
The reason?
Mostly in my opinion because many cyclists tend to have a bent towards being weight-watching weenies and will pay ridiculous money to save a few grams. After a while there is a re-adjustment (when something even lighter turns up) and the run of the mill 8sp suddenly becomes a 10sp with the associated higher cost... yet the average cyclist ponies up for it because we are told it is so much better.
Right now with eMTB I think something in the 8-9sp range would be perfect. Not only lighter, but cheaper too.

Oh ...

So true - Shesh have been 10-20% over-priced as long as I can remember.

haha. No. Dude. Wrong. A motorcycle is way more complex and expensive to make.

 

[Rusty]

haha. No. Dude. Wrong. A motorcycle is way more complex and expensive to make.

Try reading it ...........