Levo gen3 or Santa Cruz Bullet,

[JetSetDemo]

Hi all after some input.
I currently have a gen 1 Levo expert medium and also a gen 2 Levo expert large.

My wife rides my gen 1 and I have a few up grades on my gen 2 such as Hope wheels, nothing too extreme.

I am ready to change up. I don’t need any price/cost is too much input, it’s been a tough year and I can afford to spend the money without compromising anything else this year, TBH I was due to change my M40 for a new M3 but I’m going to hang in for the touring next year so I’d already planned to spend the cash on a car change.

So I may keep the expert gen2 for my wife as the large sizing is better than the medium gen 1 which is way to small, can’t believe I used to ride that hard for 2 years.

This means I will sell the gen 1 the expert in great condition for around the £2-2,5k mark.

So I was set to order a 2022 bullet but in large but now I am thinking of getting the Gen3 s works in s3 size.

I have the cash now but as I have a bike to ride I’m not fused waiting for delivery.

Anyone out there have any input?

Especially on Bullet spec as I might go low and upgrade to axs and a Zebb fork

Thanks Demo

 

[Norange]

Reckon you'll get way more than that for the Gen1.

 

[Zimmerframe]

If you're quick and go for the Levo, you can get a free wrap from Rob !

 

[JetSetDemo]

If you're quick and go for the Levo, you can get a free wrap from Rob !

Yup I know that’s what I was thinking

 

[Zimmerframe]

Not really getting the answers you want are we

Rob looks very at home on the Gen3 in the vids. The Bullit I'm sure is also an outstanding bike and I can't help but think I'd crash it just as well as any other bike.

We all hope we don't have a warranty situation, but with the levo worse case you can always run to Berkshire for 5* recovery. I guess with the bullit it ends up with Madison. Which seems to get things sorted, but slower. (thinking mainly motor/battery/switches/sensors here - it's an EMTBers main concern).

If I was to be completely unbias, I'd have to say you actually seem quite happy with what you have (though you did have an extended downtime issue last year) so I'd say don't blow the money buying yourself a new bike .. buy someone else one ! Wouldn't that make you feel good ..

If you look at the fantasy bike thread, I think the Gen3 was well ahead of the bullit if that gives you an average forum perspective... but that doesn't really answer your question !

 

[JetSetDemo]

Not really getting the answers you want are we

Rob looks very at home on the Gen3 in the vids. The Bullit I'm sure is also an outstanding bike and I can't help but think I'd crash it just as well as any other bike.

We all hope we don't have a warranty situation, but with the levo worse case you can always run to Berkshire for 5* recovery. I guess with the bullit it ends up with Madison. Which seems to get things sorted, but slower. (thinking mainly motor/battery/switches/sensors here - it's an EMTBers main concern).

If I was to be completely unbias, I'd have to say you actually seem quite happy with what you have (though you did have an extended downtime issue last year) so I'd say don't blow the money buying yourself a new bike .. buy someone else one ! Wouldn't that make you feel good ..

If you look at the fantasy bike thread, I think the Gen3 was well ahead of the bullit if that gives you an average forum perspective... but that doesn't really answer your question !

Your right, I wanted a Santa Cruze bike for a long time but could not afford one. Now it’s not the money that’s the issue, I do seem to have settled the Gen2 down nicely now and maybe I should just put the extra cash in to my pension but I’m not yet 50 and quite wanted to spend the money on something extravagant for my last year in the 40’s

I would have quite happily spent it on 2 week’s in the Maldives but looks like that’s off the cards till next year.

Funny thing money, I spent most of my life struggling to even make it through the month and now I can’t decide what to spend it on.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Your right, I wanted a Santa Cruze bike for a long time but could not afford one. Now it’s not the money that’s the issue, I do seem to have settled the Gen2 down nicely now and maybe I should just put the extra cash in to my pension but I’m not yet 50 and quite wanted to spend the money on something extravagant for my last year in the 40’s

I would have quite happily spent it on 2 week’s in the Maldives but looks like that’s off the cards till next year.

Funny thing money, I spent most of my life struggling to even make it through the month and now I can’t decide what to spend it on.

I'd say pretend you don't have it .. and use it to buy something even more extravagant when you're 50 ! Like a Gen 4 .. or a Santa Cruz Grenade. He says ... looking at new bikes ...

 

[mehukatti]

I think the upcoming new Kenevo will be more comparable to Bullit e.g. considering the amount of suspension travel.

 

[Doomanic]

Funny thing money, I spent most of my life struggling to even make it through the month and now I can’t decide what to spend it on.

I've got no useful input on which bike to buy as neither really float my boat but I'm more than happy to help you spend your ill-gotten gains...

 

[Jimbo Vills]

Would be the bullit for me, run along side the gen2 you have two options for what ever you want to ride...

Bit of variety is always nice ??

Edit - Gen3 Sworks looks mega, but that’s bad arse!

 

[Eddy Current]

Bullit pros:

Lighter

Coil ready

More travel

Cheaper

Levo pros:

Brose

Bit more range

Customization (motor and geo)

Sizing options

Ill say if you want the ultimate performance the Bullit looks more capable, if you want a bit more let’s say “touring” riding, the Levo looks less extreme so I guess more comfy, more enjoyable out of going as fast as possible

 

[AL_somer]

I’m also interested in this chat. I generally prefer lighter weight ebikes so far but I keep dabbling with a full fat to have a totally different experience. I do really like Spesh bikes to be honest and I like their integrated electronics and I like the idea of a motor that is quite downhill and uphill. The Gen3 looks like it’s made that jump to more aggressive geo that might give me good contrast vs the Levo SL / Orbea Rise...

But man the Bullit just seems more exciting somehow and seems like it would give that total contrast in terms of the experience. 170 / 170 and everyone says the geo is perfect and super confidence inspiring. And an XT build of a Bullit is a good whack cheaper than a Pro build of a Gen3.

But to be honest even if money is no object that Bullit just seems a more exciting bike somehow. If it wasn’t for the slightly weaker motor and the motor knocking sounds id find it easier to commit.

 

[MrSimmo]

For me -

Bullitt - DH/Enduro oriented, longer travel, more capable on the steeper more gnarly trails - more stable on the descents. Can do long distances but not its primary objective.

Gen3 Levo - Trail oriented, trail travel, very capable on all trails but can get out of hand on really gnarly trails unless its piloted by someone who really knows what they're doing. Designed for long days riding. Gen3 is more agile than the Bullitt in my eye.


Bare in mind all the 'reviews' we see on YouTube/bike mags etc are ridden by people who spend a lot of time riding bikes in a varied set of terrains. Some are ex pro racers, some are seasoned journalists, and some frankly are people who don't have a f**king clue about what they're talking about! Or worst still, they're being paid by the bike manufacturers to 'review' - check out just how many "look at this Gen3 Levo how great and its the best bike in the world bar none" videos there are on YouTube - then the small print for said videos around "paid promotion".

For the average rider, they'll not get the bikes going at the speeds/limits to really experience the differences so whatever bike you buy, you'll love it. So it's more to do with the design/atheistic of each bike - which one do you feel more at home on and which do you like the look of the most. Also, where will you ride the bike the most - if its Alps DH - get the Bullitt, if its Surrey Hills and a blast to a bike park every now and again, maybe the Levo.

I went to Bike Park Wales a few years ago, there were 50 year old chaps in full body armour and DH rigs being overtaken by 20 year olds on Halfords Carrera £200 hard-tails ?

I've got a 2020 Levo, I take it down literally anything if it looks remotely like a trail. I'm just a bit slower than the guys on the longer travel bikes but there really isn't a lot in it and we all get to the bottom smiling and laughing.

....But...... the Bullitt does look awesome!

BTW - Check out the latest C63 if you're in the market for an M3/Touring, may change your mind!

 

[Tubby G]

I went to Bike Park Wales a few years ago, there were 50 year old chaps in full body armour and DH rigs being overtaken by 20 year olds on Halfords Carrera £200 hard-tails ?

Love that

 

[AL_somer]

That motor bulge is annoying on the Levo too. You drop £13k on a bike it would be nice if that area didn’t look so big. I feel like they must have smaller motor in the pipeline tbh and this might be the last of this series getting used. Based on zero facts of course. Just feels the obvious area for them to sweeten

 

[neiloxford]

ebike-mtb.com have just published the 2021 best mtb ebike with 25 bikes reviewed including the levo gen 3 and the bullet. Only available on mobile phones which is a bit annoying.

It is free for both the app and the magazine download.

iphone:

‎E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine

‎The E-MOUNTAINBIKE app is E-mountain biking in its most wonderful form! exciting stories, honest reviews, interactive format. Download the app now and access all issues for free. ** KEY FEATURES ** Early Access Read our latest tests and reviews before everyone else: most of our articles are...

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Android:

E-MOUNTAINBIKE Magazine - Apps on Google Play

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play.google.com

 

[JetSetDemo]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I mostly ride In Wales or the FOD, Cannock is close and where I really developed my ridding but I have been avoiding it more and more the last 2 years as I prefer more challenge these days.The Levo’s over the last 4 years have changed my social life and lifestyle completely but I think that could be said by many people about ebikes in general.

Short history
I had a camber before the First Levo in 2017 that I would take around The local woods in Kent when I had time and before all of them a huge gap containing 3 children and building a career. I did ride back in the early 90’s also around Manchester and north Wales on an old GT Karakorama every weekend.

Current riding
I do ride BPW a few times a year as well as chicksands and Aston hill, also ridden Glentress a few times and even Inerlethen although I can honestly say that was out of my league, I guess I will ride anything but won’t always make it down everything on my wheels, I have zero ego do not worried about bottling it.

I wish I could ride them both back to back especially in the medium and large sizes just to be sure. I think the Levo would probably suit me the best, however it’s like a Santa Cruz!!! And I had listed after one and always said to my self if only they made an ebike.

The new C63 with the hybrid power train does look interesting, now I am set on a new bike I have another year to decide so I’ll park that for next years first world problem.

Once again thanks for the input guys it’s helping me edge closer to a decision

D

 

[MrSimmo]

Thanks for the feedback so far. I mostly ride In Wales or the FOD, Cannock is close and where I really developed my ridding but I have been avoiding it more and more the last 2 years as I prefer more challenge these days.The Levo’s over the last 4 years have changed my social life and lifestyle completely but I think that could be said by many people about ebikes in general.

Short history
I had a camber before the First Levo in 2017 that I would take around The local woods in Kent when I had time and before all of them a huge gap containing 3 children and building a career. I did ride back in the early 90’s also around Manchester and north Wales on an old GT Karakorama every weekend.

Current riding
I do ride BPW a few times a year as well as chicksands and Aston hill, also ridden Glentress a few times and even Inerlethen although I can honestly say that was out of my league, I guess I will ride anything but won’t always make it down everything on my wheels, I have zero ego do not worried about bottling it.

I wish I could ride them both back to back especially in the medium and large sizes just to be sure. I think the Levo would probably suit me the best, however it’s like a Santa Cruz!!! And I had listed after one and always said to my self if only they made an ebike.

The new C63 with the hybrid power train does look interesting, now I am set on a new bike I have another year to decide so I’ll park that for next years first world problem.

Once again thanks for the input guys it’s helping me edge closer to a decision

D

Good stuff happy to help.

For BPW/AH/Glentress - either will be at home. The Bullit may be a bit more relaxed/stable but tbh suspension tuning will bring out the best of both bikes to the point you may not notice the difference on those locations. If you make a mistake on a longer travel bike, you have better chances of getting through it though!

I know what you mean ref the Santa Cruz, I'm thinking the same myself! A friend of mine bought a Bronson when I had my Yeti SB6 & SB5, after riding his bike I was saying the same!

One thing to note though - the motors do perform differently so may be worth trying to ride a Levo vs any EP8 based bike to get a feeling before pulling the trigger on one. I doubt the new Gen3 Brose 2.2 motor will be as unreliable as before so reliability challenges hopefully won't be so much of an issue it once was.

I've now been banned for the foreseeable from buying 'boys toys', apparently the family needs a new van, where as I believe we need a new Aston Martin! Wives eh!

 

[AL_somer]

I have bitten the Bullit. Coming end of May ?

 

[JetSetDemo]

I must admit I am leaning towards biting it also,

 

[AL_somer]

I must admit I am leaning towards biting it also,

With so few around now I just felt itchy and had to bite. Evo cycles have a few XTs coming in. They have an XT Coil in copper coming in 2 weeks! XT Air at end of April. If that's any help.

 

[R120]

For the price of the S-Works I would go with the Bullit S or XT , then pimp the feck out of it, custom paint, EXT rear shock etc etc.

 

[AL_somer]

For the price of the S-Works I would go with the Bullit S or XT , then pimp the feck out of it, custom paint, EXT rear shock etc etc.

It's crying out for an Ohlins rear in the long run

 

[JetSetDemo]

This is all very helpful, I will let you all know what happens.....

 

[Coolcmsc]

This is all very helpful, I will let you all know what happens.....

My 2 penneth is I was on a 2020 Levo Expert modded only with MT5’s (a big upgrade for my riding style at leats) and now I’m on a Bullit S and the MT’s will go on that next week (I’ll get the LBS to do that as first time set up is the issue with Magura’s brakes).

So, feedback:-

1. The Bullit is a generation better than the Gen 2 Levo. I’m a very ordinary rider and even I can tell that. I haven’t ridden a Gen 3, but I suspect peddle and bb strikes may be an issue when the geo is set up to get closer to the Bullit (I’ve seen comments of that sort already).
2. Whoever said that it all depends where you’re riding is correct. Mainly trails = Levo, anything more = Bullit. It also depends on where you are in your ‘career’... Somebody mentioned buying one for their 50’th and that resonated with me as I’m 64 and I thought to myself, "If not now, when?". I’m lucky I had the cash for such a luxurious choice, but this isn’t a hair-shirt forum. So, I’m taking some coaching (very cheap in the whole round of MTB costs) and plan to ride all the big U.K. parks. I’m not going to be trounced by that 20 yr old, although they will pass me and I shan’t need to be in a mechatronic battle suit ?
3. I bought the S because it was in the shop in the right size (XL) and I’d been lucky enough to get a demo on that size. It can be upgraded no-end. I didn’t want the XT because of the Magura’s with the e-disks (see above). Did I say it can be upgraded no-end? I should have done ? That’s because there’s gear and mechs and seat posts and a coil and etc and etc to think about Whichever bike you buy. If you’re not an upgraded, then again, it won’t matter which you buy.
4. This thing about battery anxiety.... do we need to talk about this? If you’re not fit or have a physical constraint you have to work with or you’re over weight, then the EP8 isn’t going to get you up/as far as the Brose 2.2. Also, batteries for the EP8 are unavailable in the U.K. - trust me, I’ve researched that this week for big trips in Scotland and The Lakes and there are no battery covers available. But if you fiddle with the torque in Eco and Trail for either bike, you’ll just go further and further, if not necessarily quite so quickly up the hills (fire roads) and obviously over 25km/hr seeing as they weight the same.... If you want to race people up hill on relatively non-technical track, especially very very steep relatively non-technical track, buy the Levo (‘cos of the Brose). Otherwise buy the Bullit because the overall package is way more capable (than the Gen 2 at least) on more technical climbing — remember it’s rider skill + motor power + frame geo that gets you fastest up a technical climb that’s not stupid steep.
5. Tyres. The Bullit has much better tyres, especially for the ups and downs. Which is good and bad. Good, because they are the toply sticky Maxis rubber and I have never ridden such confidence inspiring rubber. The Specialized rubber is fine, but not a patch on the version of Maxis on the Bullit. But that’s bad too. I’m certain that these tyres contribute to the battery drain on the EP8 vs the Brose 2.2
6. Bottom line? Comparing my pace over a wide variety of tracks, but not including full on longer DH, the Bullit is giving me immediate PB’s and I’ve only just started the coaching. It also feels safer which matters to an old man like me who is hmble enough to take pleasure in a bike that compensates for my mistakes. And last of all, it’s going to take to places I didn’t choose to go on the Levo - I could have gone in Lock-Down breaks, but I didn’t and that’s a great illustration for me at least about how the two bike ride.

Good luck and above all enjoy the choice and love what ever you get ??

 

[JetSetDemo]

So I am going to go with the bullet, I just need to work out what spec I want to go with a ax’s dropper so i will have to change that’s and now just need to work out if I go medium or large, I’m on a large Levo and love the size the large bullet is 20mm longer reach but I think the seat post is steeper decision time

 

[SDP]

Well if it helps having demo’d Gen 2 Levo and Gen 1 SL, then the SC Bullit, I’ve ordered the Bullit and went full hit X01. Why??

Loved the look of the Bullit, the steeper seat tube with its bigger more confident inspiring travel and longer reach sizing, all better for my 6.4 height and gung ho have a go mentality.

Now the Gen 3 Levo is out, despite the awesome new ECU, bigger sizing with longer reach and bigger travel, I’m still glad I went for the Bullit and now feel it looks better value too (I say that with a gulp given the out lay!!)

Why?! The bit I just can’t get over in 2021’s with the look getting more and more like acoustic bikes, is the Levo’s STILL huge bottom bracket, with the tweaked Brose 2.2 motor.

Riding preferences.
In the real world the Levo’s extra nm power is negligible over the EP8 as we mostly ride in Eco hence trying the SL, which tbh was almost the winner. Another thing to consider is motor responsiveness. The EP8 doesn’t have any over drive, but the Brose does, which may be something you prefer.

I’m just hoping the UK legislation follows Europe, and ups the max allowable to 20mph as 15mph is too slow.

Bizarrely despite demo’ing the Copper Bullitt which went out of stock so quickly, I’ve followed the SC trend and gone with the more radical Lavender (I’m preparing for max piss take!) as believe these became the more rad colour ways became the most sort after later. I’d have loved it in Adder green, which is my fave SC colour from the Nomad.

Also if you’re going for a lower spec model with add ons. Can I suggest you buy from the boys at Brink and go (sadly not so low) XT model and then tinker to your hearts content. Check out their builds as their Ohlins XT bespoke with gold decals they did for a customer looks the muts nuts ??

Best of luck whichever you choose, you’re a lucky man and either will be an awesome bike! ???

 

[AL_somer]

I went for the X01 just as I’ve always wanted that Factoty fork on a bike. But I might actually strip off the Sram gear and sell it and put on an XTR drivetrain that’s better imo.

 

[SDP]

I went for the X01 just as I’ve always wanted that Factoty fork on a bike. But I might actually strip off the Sram gear and sell it and put on an XTR drivetrain that’s better imo.

Interesting thought, as I do prefer the click action of Shimano to the longer travel of SRAM. I wonder if they’ll let me swap out ?. I have latest SLX on my acoustic bike and it’s awesome. Hence XT recommendation above. With on the forks as Factory Fox looks the biz, though the none factory on the XT model is just as good, just no Kashima.

 

[AL_somer]

Interesting thought, as I do prefer the click action of Shimano to the longer travel of SRAM. I wonder if they’ll let me swap out ?. I have latest SLX on my acoustic bike and it’s awesome. Hence XT recommendation above. With on the forks as Factory Fox looks the biz, though the none factory on the XT model is just as good, just no Kashima.

honestly XT coil is probably every bit as good as the X01 in most ways. The reserve wheels though are probably the main real world upgrade, the rest would be super hard to tell. I’ve just always hankered after those golden forks ?

But XTR is a great drivetrain and allows shifting under load, I think it’s a much better setup really. However it looks less bling and that counts for a lot in these ‘dream bike’ setups.