Levo Gen 3 Levo Gen 4 2024 Rumours... And assorted random chat ....

Dax

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 25, 2018
1,746
2,133
FoD
Maybe some of you guys should check out the new Whyte E Lyte EVo.......essentially the original E Lyte but now with the latest full power Bosch CX motor. Battery is kept fairly small but the bike includes a range extender mounted low and it is claimed to have the lowest centre of balance with or without the extender fitted.

View attachment 151974

This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s not like the original elyte is lacking in power.
 

RichMorr

Member
Subscriber
Jun 16, 2024
116
103
Uk
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s not like the original elyte is lacking in power.
The problem with the Whyte ELyte Evo is the integrated 400 wh doesn’t have enough power to fully power the CX motor and is essentially detuned. This is why all models come with the Bosch extender as its needed to get all the power from the motor.
 
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Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,626
5,104
Weymouth
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. It’s not like the original elyte is lacking in power.
I was merely pointing out another brands approach to meeting the mix of requirements some of you guys wanted. That being to have a full enduro spec bike with a proven full power motor that is around the 20kg mark if used with the just the integrated battery but includes an extender for longer rides whilst not impacting on centre of gravity and ride feel. It's an alternative approach to the Amflow and another option for Specialized to consider for any new Levo.

Another approach would be to include 2 batteries of different capacity with each bike sold, either of which could be fitted in the downtube...... or a modular battery system.
 
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Phil M

Member
Nov 25, 2021
15
13
UK
As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.
 

Mikerb

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 16, 2019
6,626
5,104
Weymouth
As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.
There are 2 trade offs if a larger battery is used. The first is gross weight as you mentioned but possibly more important is how that impacts on the centre of gravity of the bike and therefore the handling of the bike.
There is also an impact on frame design especially in the smaller sizes
 

Phil M

Member
Nov 25, 2021
15
13
UK
There are 2 trade offs if a larger battery is used. The first is gross weight as you mentioned but possibly more important is how that impacts on the centre of gravity of the bike and therefore the handling of the bike.
There is also an impact on frame design especially in the smaller sizes
Of course, and that’s why it would be great idea to offer 2 battery sizes depending on usage.

There’s likely as many people who want a heavier bike with a longer range at the expense of not quite as sweet handling, as the lighter weight more agile bike.

I ride long, fast and steep rocky stuff so the weight and range works for me.. my mate who I ride with likes twisties in the woods so he’d go for the lighter bike.

It’s so easy to offer both and the consumer can make the choice.
 
Apr 18, 2020
209
99
germany
As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.
2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.
 

gbcoke

Active member
Aug 28, 2022
121
107
italy
The most critical aspect for weight and its effect on the feel of the bike is weight distribution.
specifically the front triangle weight which determines a lot how a bike handles.
When you have a 2kg battery/motor in the dt the bike will feel much nimbler than a bike with a 4 kg battery and 2.9kg motor even if the total difference is small.
You can feel it the most on a bike like the lapierre glp3, a 24+ kg bike the has no battery in the dt and handles like a lightweight bike (a very impressive bike btw).
 

Geas

Member
Jun 24, 2022
36
34
Austria
As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….

I trail ride - exactly what the Levo is/was designed for, an extra 2kgs means nothing to me… but I’d much rather 900+wh without using a range extender so I can cover more and more ground. On my current Levo I max out at about 5500ft and 30 miles (90kgs and fit)

2 battery options seems the way to go here, just like the Canyon.

It sounds kind a strange, but on my Kenevo SL, I’ve noticed that after adding the range extender I do not really feel any major changes of the bike’s handling. However, after removing it - such as when taking off the empty extender and doing some more laps with just the internal battery - the difference is very noticeable, with the bike feeling definitely more responsive and better handling.
 
Apr 18, 2020
209
99
germany
You are probably starting the ride with full batteries after you didn't ride at least over night or for a few days/weeks but when you remoce the extender its more like a back to back comparison.
 

Harold

Member
Oct 30, 2020
46
59
Brussels
2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.
Totally agree, it is not because MTB got a motor than suddenly weight becomes irrelevant!
 

rzr

Active member
Sep 26, 2022
408
259
bcn
As nice as light weight is, I bet only about 10% of riders could tell the difference between 20 or 22kgs….
That's true for most sunday warriors that just do "normal" rides etc...

but for someone that rides enduro/dh etc. 2kg is noticeable, and more noticeable is where those 2kg are ! and more battery means more weight is closer to the headtube.
even on bikes with similar weight I can feel when battery is higher and closer to head tube (bike is less manouverable), than on some bikes where battery is a bit lower and closer to a motor.
 

mustclime

Active member
Apr 19, 2023
454
361
New Jerzy
2kg is a lot. Obviously you won't notice it the more tame/straight line you ride. But the more aggressive you ride twisty/narrow stuff the more you will notice it. But I think it also depends on the rider weight and fitness how much he or she notices the weight of the bike. A very skilled and physically strong rider won't be struggling as much with a heavier bike on dh trails than a rider who is relatively light/weak/inexperienced.

A heavy bike is mostly good for straightlining not too steep stuff without braking. As soon as it gets/steep twisty or if you have to maneuvre tight off camber stuff and have to lift the front of the bike or jumps every 100 gram will help you.
Cuz dirt bikes can’t climb at all and they can’t turn. 😳 I ride a Kenevo, it takes a little time get used to the weight and long wheel base. A little upper body strength is a big help and you have to pay attention to your rear wheel path. Long heavy bikes like my Kenevo also climb like a goat on steep tech.
 

Phil M

Member
Nov 25, 2021
15
13
UK
So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike😆
 

JetSetDemo

🍦Two Scoops🍦
Patreon
Apr 1, 2018
413
593
Ashby de la Zouch
So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike😆
It’s nothing like the last battery to look at so won’t be backwards compatible however they told me they are working on an even larger capacity battery, so I think they will perhaps follow the same trend as the gen 2 started with smaller and larger capacity.

It’s killing me not to share something, it’s going to be a nice surprise and an impressive improvement over the 700wh. However I have no idea what this motor efficiency will be like. For the battery it’s more powerful and it’s also smaller (I don’t think this is enough to get me shot lol)

I think bikes are almost in some people’s hands now (a few weeks away)
 

rzr

Active member
Sep 26, 2022
408
259
bcn
Most important thing is that battery and motor are low and close to BB - so the handling is affected in minimal way (not like Bosch systems), and reliability is better :)
 

Dax

E*POWAH Elite World Champion
May 25, 2018
1,746
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FoD
Cuz dirt bikes can’t climb at all and they can’t turn. 😳 I ride a Kenevo, it takes a little time get used to the weight and long wheel base. A little upper body strength is a big help and you have to pay attention to your rear wheel path. Long heavy bikes like my Kenevo also climb like a goat on steep tech.

Sure they do. But I bet if you took 10% off the weight of your dirt bike, you’d notice the difference.
 

xtraman122

Member
Mar 2, 2024
252
192
USA
So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike😆
There really hasn't been any new "battery tech" recently, this seems to be a common misconception, there's another thread about it as well. They've gotten better at slimming down the casing and minimizing the extra hardware that goes along with the battery, but the same 21700 cells have been used for a while now.
 

Polar

Well-known member
Jun 16, 2023
422
536
Norway
There really hasn't been any new "battery tech" recently, this seems to be a common misconception, there's another thread about it as well. They've gotten better at slimming down the casing and minimizing the extra hardware that goes along with the battery, but the same 21700 cells have been used for a while now.
The world is working hard to develop new energy and battery technology but it's also a lot of scams since these companies borrow money from the government because private sector don't want to invest yet and in Norway Freyr borrowed millions from the government last year and went bankrupt shortly after, this year Morrow got millions from the government.
I bet China will be the winner while US and EU will lose a lot of money trying to beat China in new battery technology.
Hopefully within a couple of years we will see a battery revolution no on ever dreamed about.
 

xtraman122

Member
Mar 2, 2024
252
192
USA
The world is working hard to develop new energy and battery technology but it's also a lot of scams since these companies borrow money from the government because private sector don't want to invest yet and in Norway Freyr borrowed millions from the government last year and went bankrupt shortly after, this year Morrow got millions from the government.
I bet China will be the winner while US and EU will lose a lot of money trying to beat China in new battery technology.
Hopefully within a couple of years we will see a battery revolution no on ever dreamed about.
Yeah new stuff is definitely coming, namely solid state battery tech, but none of it is incorporated into production e-bikes yet, not even close.
 

AussieRuss

New Member
Apr 25, 2024
15
20
Australia
If
So if it was to get a bigger battery…

Isn’t the current 700wh 4/5 years old now? Surely more up to date battery tech should mean a 900wh is possible within the same size/weight. What would be nice if they did that and make it backwards compatible - like they did the 700 to the older 500… that way I’d just keep my current bike😆
If the new Gen 4 bike is a 48Volt System as suspected then backwards compatibility to the current 36volt Gen 3 system wont work.
 

AussieRuss

New Member
Apr 25, 2024
15
20
Australia
Jus had a look & the current 36 volt levo 700 watt/hrBattery looks to weigh 3.977kg
The Brose 48 Volt 814 watt/hr battery weights 4.0kg
Not sure if the 700 battery weight includes bash guard etc but it looks like the new 48volt 814 battery only weighs 23grams more
 

rzr

Active member
Sep 26, 2022
408
259
bcn
it doesn't depend on voltage. there is just a lot of cells connected in serial-parallel way...
(however higher voltage can improve efficiency a bit)
 

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