Levo - Fork / Shock customisations ?

[khorn]

Thanks
Quick question . Forgive me if im having a senior moment
Are you referring to the wheel axle to floor?
Isn't that dimension constantly the same regardless of suspension compression ?

The bike is supported at the center and front wheel is touching the floor all the time as well. The rear wheel will go nicely up in the air when suspension is compressed

A picture says more than a thousand words:

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

I also your test assumes suspension travel is linear, from my minimal underdtanding o f this doesnt a four bar linkage move up in a curve?

 

[khorn]

I also your test assumes suspension travel is linear, from my minimal underdtanding o f this doesnt a four bar linkage move up in a curve?

Dave you are absolutely correct about the leverage is a curve as seen in post #8 here:
Rockshox Monarch RT setup questions - EMTB Forums

However, travel is easy to measure as it is only the difference between suspension fully extended and compressed and this is what I did here. Center and front wheel is fixed so it is only a matter of rear suspension movement.

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

Hmm i wonder what the liability is of Spesh advertising their suspension travel is 135mm ,not what it actually is

 

[khorn]

Hmm i wonder what the liability is of Spesh advertising their suspension travel is 135mm ,not what it actually is

In my case its clear that the issue is the 46 mm of stroke and not 48 mm as the specification states(also indicated on the shock). No way I can get more than 46 mm out of it without breaking something. If it is a quality issue or simply an error in the specification for my comp carbon 2018 Levo I don't know. It could be fun to see if any out here with a 2018 Rockshox Monarch RT could measure total stroke on their shock and see if they can get more than 46 mm out of it.

If it is the same issue I could contact Specialized and ask them to provide the last 5 mm of travel

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

Lol i have one i took off when i fitted the van, i will measure it tomorow it wine and movie time now

 

[Doomanic]

Hmm i wonder what the liability is of Spesh advertising their suspension travel is 135mm ,not what it actually is

There will no doubt be a cover-all disclaimer on their website.

I also your test assumes suspension travel is linear, from my minimal underdtanding o f this doesnt a four bar linkage move up in a curve?

If is does you'd need to measure the length of the arc, not the absolute measurements from a single point. Jam a Sharpie in the rear axle and repeat the test with a piece of stiff card or plywood and measure the resultant line.

 

[StuR]

The bike is supported at the center and front wheel is touching the floor all the time as well. The rear wheel will go nicely up in the air when suspension is compressed

A picture says more than a thousand words:

View attachment 4437

Karsten

Arr gotcha !!

The bike is supported at the center and front wheel is touching the floor all the time as well. The rear wheel will go nicely up in the air when suspension is compressed

A picture says more than a thousand words:

View attachment 4437

Karsten

Gotcha !
Partial senior moment

 

[ccrdave]

Ok im a little confused with the shock of the bike but pymped up im getting 60mm stroke. With it off the bike and empty im getting 46.5mm

 

[StuR]

Ok im a little confused with the shock of the bike but pymped up im getting 60mm stroke. With it off the bike and empty im getting 46.5mm

View attachment 4438

The stroke is how much it compresses not the shaft length
In your case 46.26mm

 

[khorn]

There will no doubt be a cover-all disclaimer on their website.

If is does you'd need to measure the length of the arc, not the absolute measurements from a single point. Jam a Sharpie in the rear axle and repeat the test with a piece of stiff card or plywood and measure the resultant line.

I think that we are discussing definitions of what "Travel" actually is now

Under all circumstances my culprit is the missing 2 mm of stroke in my rear shock. 2 mm x average leverage ratio will give (2 x 2.82) + 129.5 mm = 135.14 mm wich indicates that my calculation is not all wrong as the travel according to specifications are rated as 135 mm.

Cheers

Karsten

 

[khorn]

Ok im a little confused with the shock of the bike but pymped up im getting 60mm stroke. With it off the bike and empty im getting 46.5mm

View attachment 4438

Thanks a thousand Dave - It seems like Specialized have stolen 2 mm = almost 6 mm of travel from us. Your shock is same as mine and the 46.26 is the stroke indeed - Not 48 mm as indicated on the bastard

Karsten

 

[levity]

deleted

 

[bigborett]

At a guess I'm thinking that the missing couple of mm will be found in the top out and bottoming out O-rings. Travel is usually quoted using the hard limits (it looks better) not taking the soft limits into account.
Is there any more travel available when physically pulling the shock from eye to eye, compressing the top out O-ring? Won't have to be much, your talking 1.8mm.

 

[bigborett]

This will be the culprit I reckon.

 

[Ricky]

My head is a bit spun out with all the leverage ratio , stroke length scenarios.
I understand the maths etc but im struggling with what is actually fact .
What is the definate leverage ratio on a Levo ?
Does it change through the travel ?
Is the travel calculation simply leverage ratio x stroke ?
I.e. if the LR is 3 then multiplied by the stroke hypothetically 45 = 135mm travel
If a different shock with a 51 stroke was fitted then travel should be 153mm
I contacted bike yoke who said fitting their product with a 190x51 shock only increases travel to 140mm
The overall shock eye to eye plus yoke is about 2mm longer than the standard Spesh shock plus yoke
Does anyone have a definitive answer as this seems a bit odd to me ??

Hi. I've spent some time looking at this, and checking some of the other forums around the world through google trying to find a definitive answer. I was tempted to try and increase the rear travel to more than 140mm, by either having a shock worked on by TFTuned, or by using a combination of a longer shock and some offset shock bushings which could give an extra 4mm on a shock length.

Specialized state that their rear shock is 197x48 with 135mm travel (2.8125 leverage ratio). The BikeYoke conversion allows a 190x51 shock, which would give 143mm travel at that ratio (3mm more than the 5mm extra that BikeYoke suggest, but whatever happens it will should be at least 140mm if a couple of mm is lost). Some in forums have suggested that the're not getting 48mm, and others have suggested more. I hope that Specialized are being truthful in their assertion that it is 135mm travel, and am concerned by some of what I have read in this forum and elsewhere. And I'm putting my trust in BikeYoke when they say that their product will add a further 5mm.

I decided in the end that I didn't want to mess with the geometry too much, and to keep my upgrades simple. I also considered a coil shock, but with the progressive/regressive frame, decided to stick to air. So I've ordered a BikeYoke (SJ02), and a Rockshox Monarch Plus Debonair (190x51) for the rear. For the front, I'm increasing the travel from 150mm to 160mm by changing the solo air spring to a 160mm Debonair spring. I've also ordered a Charge2 damper to bring the fork up to a Pike standard.

If after making those upgrades the geometry needs tweaking, I may try some offset rear shock bushings. I'll post how I get on in a couple of weeks when I've fitted the parts.

Having said all that, what I should have done is bitten the bullet and paid the extra £1250 and just bought a Kenevo!

 

[StuR]

Hi. I've spent some time looking at this, and checking some of the other forums around the world through google trying to find a definitive answer. I was tempted to try and increase the rear travel to more than 140mm, by either having a shock worked on by TFTuned, or by using a combination of a longer shock and some offset shock bushings which could give an extra 4mm on a shock length.

Specialized state that their rear shock is 197x48 with 135mm travel (2.8125 leverage ratio). The BikeYoke conversion allows a 190x51 shock, which would give 143mm travel at that ratio (3mm more than the 5mm extra that BikeYoke suggest, but whatever happens it will should be at least 140mm if a couple of mm is lost). Some in forums have suggested that the're not getting 48mm, and others have suggested more. I hope that Specialized are being truthful in their assertion that it is 135mm travel, and am concerned by some of what I have read in this forum and elsewhere. And I'm putting my trust in BikeYoke when they say that their product will add a further 5mm.

I decided in the end that I didn't want to mess with the geometry too much, and to keep my upgrades simple. I also considered a coil shock, but with the progressive/regressive frame, decided to stick to air. So I've ordered a BikeYoke (SJ02), and a Rockshox Monarch Plus Debonair (190x51) for the rear. For the front, I'm increasing the travel from 150mm to 160mm by changing the solo air spring to a 160mm Debonair spring. I've also ordered a Charge2 damper to bring the fork up to a Pike standard.

If after making those upgrades the geometry needs tweaking, I may try some offset rear shock bushings. I'll post how I get on in a couple of weeks when I've fitted the parts.

Having said all that, what I should have done is bitten the bullet and paid the extra £1250 and just bought a Kenevo!

Thats pretty much the conclusion ive reached
Bike yoke and 190x51 shock = approx 140 mm rear travel
See how it rides then maybe a fork travel tweak with offset bushes
Or just a custom service for the fork (as i find it a bit firm)
Even at 140mm both ends its still a ripper and is more than good enough for the vast majority of my riding

 

[Ricky]

Thats pretty much the conclusion ive reached
Bike yoke and 190x51 shock = approx 140 mm rear travel
See how it rides then maybe a fork travel tweak with offset bushes
Or just a custom service for the fork (as i find it a bit firm)
Even at 140mm both ends its still a ripper and is more than good enough for the vast majority of my riding

Updates on my bike complete. Take a look on the modded Levo's section. 1 degree slacker in the end, with standard bushes.

 

[Jeff McD]

Updates on my bike complete. Take a look on the modded Levo's section. 1 degree slacker in the end, with standard bushes.

Hey Ricky so I am curious. With your new shock if you let all the air out of it do you really get 51 mm of stroke or less? Thanks, Jeff.

 

[Ricky]

Hey Ricky so I am curious. With your new shock if you let all the air out of it do you really get 51 mm of stroke or less? Thanks, Jeff.

Hi,

Sorry for the slow reply. Having spent a lot of time on it, I didn't want to go out to the garage and tinker any more for a few days! I'm playing with a Shockwiz at the moment, so I've measured it. It looks like 57mm extended (bearing in mind it won't use the entire length), and when compress there is about 4mm left. So that makes it 53mm. My measurements might be a mm or two out, but I think it's reasonable to say that I'm definitely getting the full 51mm of travel.

I've been making some substantial changes to the suspension setup with the shockwiz, and it already feels so much better. Just a bit more refining required. I'm going to be renting the shockwiz out in a couple of weeks, so message me if anyone reading this is interested!

 

[StuR]

So i fitted a Rockshox Monarch plus rc3 190x51 shock and a bike yoke to my Levo 2 wks ago
Ive done 6 rides , about 13hrs so far and im luvin it
No clearance issues with the bike yoke or extra stroke .In fact , the yoke gives extra clearance.
Luv the 3 settings which actually work. Firm , mid and soft . I find myself using them regularly to climb , traverse and decend.
Travel is around 140 - 143 mm
I've set the sag a little softer around 28%
Backend tracks and grips superbly
No pedal strike issues with standard length cranks.
No geometry changes
Super plush and a major improvement in my opinion
Looks awesome which is of course the top priority ?

 

[Doomanic]

2 wks

6 rides

about 13hrs

Lucky bugger.

 

[StuR]

Lucky bugger.

Trails on my doorstep and SWMBO is away ?

 

[Doomanic]

Like I said; lucky bugger! On both counts.

 

[Jeff McD]

Hey Ricky, thanks so much for checking. Good to know you are getting full stroke. Glad to hear the new shock is a good upgrade. I plan to do it someday too.

 

[khorn]

Hello

Do anyone know if it is possible to buy a heavier than 650 lbs custom spring for the 190 x 51 mm Cane Creek DBcoil IL?

According to TFtuned a 650 lbs spring is not enough for my 110 kg fully kitted body weight and was wandering if there are some custom possibilities.

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

Hello

Do anyone know if it is possible to buy a heavier than 650 lbs custom spring for the 190 x 51 mm Cane Creek DBcoil IL?

According to TFtuned a 650 lbs spring is not enough for my 110 kg fully kitted body weight and was wandering if there are some custom possibilities.

Karsten

the fox van does 700 and 800 springs, they might fit
it was for me why I choose the van

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

The fox springs have a smaller ID (internal diameter) to a Cane Creek spring so they will not fit your DB coil. It is only a small difference but it will be enough to scrap and damage the shock body if you fit the wrong spring to your shock.

• 35mm ID Fitment - For Use With FOX & MRP.
  
  
• 36.5mm ID Fitment - For Use With DVO Suspension, Cane Creek, BOS Suspension, Ohlins, Marzocchi, Manitou Shocks & X-Fusion Shocks.
  
  
• 38mm ID Fitment - For Use With RockShox, Romic & Avalanche Racing Suspension Shocks.

Ti Springs.com make custom springs. They may be able to assist you with a higher pounage spring but I am not sure....

 

[khorn]

the fox van does 700 and 800 springs, they might fit
it was for me why I choose the van

I know Dave but I only want the TFtuned version of the very old Fox Van RC but apparently TFtuned is so extremely slow to deal with that I'm about to loose my patience. They informed me almost 14 days ago that I would have it ready for last weekend and since then not a word. I placed an order of more than 700£ and was expecting a little more interest in me as a customer. I'm just about to call it a day and go out and buy another coil shock together with a bike yoke. I can dial the shock in myself so that is not the issue.

Karsten

 

[ccrdave]

oh wow thats unlike them they are ussually very good
check out these guys
Fox
they told me they can do a van with the spesh end so no need for a bike yoke.
I also notice the 2019 kenevo comp is fitted with a fox van
I know its an old shock but I really like mine