KMC e11 EPT chain: possible cause of chainsuck

[neils]

I change my chain fairly regularly to save the rest of the drive train. Been very happy with KMC chains in the past so opted to use them again. I bought 2x "KMC e11 EPT" chains for my Levo (2019). When looking at the ebike specific chains KMC offer, I decided to opt for the "EPT" version which offers maximum anti-rust protection according to the spec. After fitting this chain I was getting a lot of chain suck as the chain left the bottom of the Hope 34T narrow/wide chainring... it was horrible and catchy.
I thought along with a mechanic mate of mine that the Hope Chainring must be worn so I changed it, I bought a brand new cheaper BUCKLOS 34T narrow/wide off eBay, the material is the same 7075-T6 as Hope use, it also has an Oil-slick rainbow effect/coating which feels very smooth and silky to the touch.

But I'm still getting the same problem with chainsuck as the KMC e11 EPT chain leaves the bottom of the chainring. I've never had this issue before. I can only put it down the the "EPT" (anti rust) finish on the chain. Have tried many different types of lubes... wet and dry wax ones and for the first half hour of the ride (wet conditions) all seems good but as soon as the lube starts to get washed off this EPT chain it starts to really suck and catch on the chainring again. This EPT finish definitely feels very grippy with a slightly course finish to the touch.

Has anyone else experienced this with the KMC "EPT" variant chains?
Going to go back to the standard e11 silver.

e-Series derailleur | KMC Chain

e12 Ti-N Gold Art.nr. BE12TTI30 Art.nr. BE12TTI30 Size: 1 2 X 11 128 Colour: Ti-N Gold Pin Length: 5.2 mm Weight per 110 links: 239 g Length: 130 Links Compatible with all 12-Speed derailleur systems Especially..

www.kmcchain.eu

 

[steve_sordy]

How worn is the ring? Worn rings can hold onto a new chain and generate chainsuck.

Edit: OOPS, attention span difficulties! While the above is true, it does not apply to the OP's problem.

 

[neils]

How worn is the ring? Worn rings can hold onto a new chain and generate chainsuck.

Did you not read the post?

 

[steve_sordy]

Did you not read the post?

Yes I did, but somehow I missed the fact that you had fitted a new ring in place of the Hope one. It must be my mid-afternoon attention span difficulties. I'm off to get some coffee, that should fix it!

 

[Mikerb]

what was the gap between changing chains and changing the chainring? Maybe the old chainring knackered the new chain?
Another thought is that if you did not remove the sticky mess typical on a new chain that could cause chain suck....I reckon it also prevents lube getting to where it needs to be on the chain.
Is the chainring direct mount?? Is the new one the correct offset?

 

[neils]

what was the gap between changing chains and changing the chainring? Maybe the old chainring knackered the new chain?
Another thought is that if you did not remove the sticky mess typical on a new chain that could cause chain suck....I reckon it also prevents lube getting to where it needs to be on the chain.
Is the chainring direct mount?? Is the new one the correct offset?

Only did one ride with the old Hope chainring before changing it to a brand new Chainring same direct mount and same offset. New chain is still undamaged or stretched.

The original lube on a new chain is supposed to be the best. Anyway it’s when the chain looses all the applied lube that the problem arises as I stated.
I’m convinced it’s the EPT finish on this variant.

Going to buy a normal e11 Silver and see. Just annoying as I wasted £65 buying 2 of these e11 EPT chains. ?

 

[Mikerb]

The sticky stuff on a new chain is not lube. It is there to seal the chain in the packaging. If you have not cleaned it off that could well be the reason for the chain suck. You mentioned the chain was ok until the lube you applied on top of that gunk wore off. I recommend you clean the chain.

 

[neils]

The sticky stuff on a new chain is not lube. It is there to seal the chain in the packaging. If you have not cleaned it off that could well be the reason for the chain suck. You mentioned the chain was ok until the lube you applied on top of that gunk wore off. I recommend you clean the chain.

I beg to differ on that.

Anyway the chain & drivetrain is completely clean of any original coating long ago.

 

[Konanige]

The sticky stuff on a new chain is not lube. It is there to seal the chain in the packaging. If you have not cleaned it off that could well be the reason for the chain suck. You mentioned the chain was ok until the lube you applied on top of that gunk wore off. I recommend you clean the chain.

The 'sticky' stuff on the chain is in fact lube its the same that's inside the rollers, its sticky so as to stay inside the rollers, but then people wash it out with degreaser and chain cleaners then wonder why their chains don't last!

 

[paquo]

The sticky stuff on a new chain is not lube. I

exactly, manufacturers put it on for transport to protect from rust. One ride in the dirt and it's a sticky mess.

 

[Gary]

@neils
ignoring the bickering about chain assembly grease for a second.
Is your rear mech's clutch operating correctly?

For the bickerers
Here's the official advice from KMC

Cleaning

A new chain usually feels sticky at first. These are residues of the high-performance grease used during assembly. Remove this grease with a thin-bodied oil or cleaner (no aggressive grease solvents!), lightly oil the rollers and remove excess oil with a cloth.

We recommend never to degrease the chain completely. Also when changing to wax, we recommend to degrease the chain only on the outside. If you degrease the chain completely, we recommend to soak the chain in wax for 12–24 hours, so that this can penetrate into the inside of the chain.

 

[Konanige]

As I said its a lube, no need to remove it'll wear off on the first ride then just rinse wipe and re oil each ride. After looking up Bucklos on Ebay I'd try buying a quality chainring first, I think the clue may be in the name!

 

[neils]

@neils
ignoring the bickering about chain assembly grease for a second.
Is your rear mech's clutch operating correctly?

For the bickerers
Here's the official advice from KMC

Pretty sure it is but I’ll check tomorrow Gary. ??

 

[neils]

As I said its a lube, no need to remove it'll wear off on the first ride then just rinse wipe and re oil each ride. After looking up Bucklos on Ebay I'd try buying a quality chainring first, I think the clue may be in the name!

Nothing wrong with the cheaper BUCKLO chainring. If you read my post it was doing it with the HOPE chainring in the first place.
I’m sure the issue is down to the “EPT” (anti rust material used for this chain)
When completely clean and free from any type of lubricant it has a rough grippy finish/feeling to it.

My question was in my original post......

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS ISSUE WITH THESE SPECIFIC “ EMC e11 “EPT” chains”
????

 

[Gary]

Buy a SRAM 1110 for a tenner. fit it and you'll know for sure

 

[Konanige]

Nothing wrong with the cheaper BUCKLO chainring. If you read my post it was doing it with the HOPE chainring in the first place.
I’m sure the issue is down to the “EPT” (anti rust material used for this chain)
When completely clean and free from any type of lubricant it has a rough grippy finish/feeling to it.

My question was in my original post......

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS ISSUE WITH THESE SPECIFIC “ EMC e11 “EPT” chains”
????

Nothing wrong with it apart from, 'rough grippy finish to it'. You want a smooth finish to release the chain and not pick it up. Also it should be free of any lube as much as possible, an oily chainring will pick up dirt and cause chain suck. Your Hope chainring may well have been worn and you are just unlucky to get the same symptoms with a new poorly finished chainring. Only trying to help.

 

[Mikerb]

I have used KMC EPT chains with no issue.

 

[neils]

Nothing wrong with it apart from, 'rough grippy finish to it'. You want a smooth finish to release the chain and not pick it up. Also it should be free of any lube as much as possible, an oily chainring will pick up dirt and cause chain suck. Your Hope chainring may well have been worn and you are just unlucky to get the same symptoms with a new poorly finished chainring. Only trying to help.

Not the chainring... the "CHAIN" has a rough grippy finish to it! Thats why I believe these EPT (anti rust) variant chains are the issue here.

Is anyone else using these KMC e11 EPT chains and having the same issue ?

 

[Kernow]

Presume you have same / correct number of links on the new chain ? . I’ve used quite a few kmc 11 speed chains
the ebike specific one did seem to last longer on my last 11 speed . I can’t remember the letters or numbers on it , but I’ve got a brand new silver one left if you can’t find any , and a few normal e11 . Everyone seems to have gone 12 speed now and it will take me years to use them on my hardtail

 

[neils]

Buy a SRAM 1110 for a tenner. fit it and you'll know for sure

This was my plan to just buy another chain anyway. The e11 EPT is fine when it's freshly lube, it just gets very catchy when the lube washes away on wet rides. Clutch on SRAM rear mech seems to working as should. Just seems strange this only started happening after fitting the EPT chain. On the bike stand and lubed up it shows no sign of catching.

 

[Kernow]

This was my plan to just buy another chain anyway. The e11 EPT is fine when it's freshly lube, it just gets very catchy when the lube washes away on wet rides. Clutch on SRAM rear mech seems to working as should. Just seems strange this only started happening after fitting the EPT chain. On the bike stand and lubed up it shows no sign of catching.

I should amend my post above thinking about it , always used kmc with shimano . Sram when we’re forced to use it seems to be happier with sram chains for some reason . Not that chain suck was ever the problem

 

[DrStupid]

I've not experienced a case of chain suck, that in the end, was attributed to the chain, provided it's a compatable pairing.

It's always been the chainring in my limited experience.

 

[jaggysnake]

I'd try a steel praxis , had same problem with a aluminium burgtec chainring.

 

[neils]

I'd try a steel praxis , had same problem with a aluminium burgtec chainring.

Yes that may well sort the issue, I note the all Levo and the Stumpjumpers including the S-Works all come with Steel chainrings.

Just back from a 40km ride and the chainsuck wasn't too bad today, mainly because the lube didn't get washed off with this lovely frozen ground. It's running so fast it's like the dry summer round here!

 

[Kernow]

Yes that may well sort the issue, I note the all Levo and the Stumpjumpers including the S-Works all come with Steel chainrings.

Just back from a 40km ride and the chainsuck wasn't too bad today, mainly because the lube didn't get washed off with this lovely frozen ground. It's running so fast it's like the dry summer round here!

Just a thought have you serviced / checked your freehub recently , I have had a problem where the freehub is sticky and is turned slightly as you freewheel , this creates slack in the top run on the chain which as you begin to pedal can transfer into chain suck .usually due to a bearing in the freehub on its way out

 

[neils]

Just a thought have you serviced / checked your freehub recently , I have had a problem where the freehub is sticky and is turned slightly as you freewheel , this creates slack in the top run on the chain which as you begin to pedal can transfer into chain suck .usually due to a bearing in the freehub on its way out

This particular issue is nothing to do with the freehub, that runs like a dream. I have a few spare freehubs XD and Shimano.

 

[Konanige]

Not the chainring... the "CHAIN" has a rough grippy finish to it! Thats why I believe these EPT (anti rust) variant chains are the issue here.

Is anyone else using these KMC e11 EPT chains and having the same issue ?

My apologies misread your post. Cant help as I have always used cheap Sram chains and binned them at about 0.5 wear and have never suffered chain suck in even the worst muddy conditions, unless I have run the drivetrain on for a total replacement.

 

[Utah Rider]

I have three Levos that I maintain. I used to use KMC because that is what the bike came with. They aren't anywhere near as robust as SRAM. If you change the KMC with low miles then you wouldn't even know they are inferior and probably not ever have any problems. I, however, like to run at least 1200 miles. Buy good lube like Maxima chain wax for motorcycles. Throw your chain wear gauge in the back of a dark closet and forget about it. A 1X11 with Praxis up front and a SRAM 1150 in back will last forever. I pulled my praxis chain ring off at 5000 miles and laid it on the top of a new one and couldn't see any difference. The chain rings are super cheap so you aren't really saving any cost by premature chain replacement. The 1150 cassette can also be found at decent prices when online stores have sales or coupons for giving them your email address. I've never had chain suck on a 1X11 or 1X12. Even on full mud on chain disaster rides. Like the kind of ride where the mud thaws and you are 10 miles from the car. I believe my praxis is 32 tooth. Washing off factory grease is crazy talk unless you headed for a sandy ride in Moab.? Cheers!