Kenevo and Levo stock Butcher tyres - grip questions ???

[Doomanic]

What sort of whisky/whiskey?

 

[ccrdave]

nothing fancy bells, cutty sark, J&B is favourite

 

[Doomanic]

Are you around this weekend?

 

[ccrdave]

no mate unless you can get to me tomorrow before ten as we are off to Ard rock. I do have a "safe place" I can leave them also. if either works pm me

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Thanks @Kiwi in Wales for your detailed post and review of the Magic Mary.

I’ve got a set of the 2.6 arriving today, looking forward to testing them out as soon as I can.

I do like the Butchers but fancy trying something else to help with the confidence on the front (especially over wet roots!).

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Thanks @Kiwi in Wales for your detailed post and review of the Magic Mary.

I’ve got a set of the 2.6 arriving today, looking forward to testing them out as soon as I can.

I do like the Butchers but fancy trying something else to help with the confidence on the front (especially over wet roots!).

Hey Rob, Hope they work for you as well as they work for me and @Tucker

When you take the butchers off fold the side wall near where it contacts the rim and you will feel how thin and flimsy they feel then do the same thing with the Magic Marys and you see the difference. I know this adds weight to the tyre but it also adds a huge amount of protection for your rims.

 

[grayedout]

Hi @grayedout,

This a great! that you so much for taking the time to write this up.! I have now run the 2.6 MM DH front and rear loved it . I have now given my son a MM DH for the front and we both are running the stock butcher 2.8 on the rear. bit more fun with the back sliding around .. next I am going to try Apex 2.8 rear and keep the MM 2.6 front . will let you all know how I get on..

from me and my son with the MM DH 2.6 front is just a different bike! I will try 2.8 Apex front and rear in a while

Andy
Apologies it has taken so long to get back to you, I have been busy with life in general and have been making the most of the weather in Wales and have been out riding as much as possible.

This is PURELY my own opinion and people are free to disagree with the content. I am only passing on my experience with said tyres/tires so at least you are a bit more informed and hopefully not even more confused

I fittted the Magic Mary APEX 2.8 Soft compound Folding tyres/tires 1050gms / 2.31lbs at the end of June. These replaced a set of Magic Mary DH carcass 2.6 Ultrasoft Non folding tyres/tires 1410gms / 3.08lbs

Since fitting them I have completed 24 rides and travelled 528km / 328 miles. (Ride and distance info captured using Starva)
I am running Tubeless on SRAM ROAM 60 30mm wide carbon rims with 120mls of Stans No Tubes Sealant
On the sidewalls the recommended pressures start from 17psi up to 35 psi
I am running Front 17 psi, Rear 17psi. You or others on the forum may prefer 'More' or 'Less' depending on how you like things set up.

Terrain where I ride
Typical Welsh slatey/rocky hard packed fire roads
Man made slatey/rocky hard packed trails.
Off Piste trails, very loamy, soft and rooty

Rider
73kgs to 75kgs with all my bike gear on and depending on how many burgers, chocolate, sweets and pints consumed the day before.....
I am a reasonably confident rider and more than happy to take on Reds runs and the occasional Black run. Jumps, gaps and drops are not an issue as long as they are not too crazy. Technical single track with roots and rock gardens are what I really like riding and now that I have an ebike I have effectively doubled the amount of trails I can ride as I can now do 95% of these trails in the reverse direction . Obviously doing a run in the reverse direction needs to be carried out either really early in the morning or really late at night to avoid head ons with other riders riding the trail in the CORRECT direction.....

Feedback
The Magic Mary APEX 2.8 Soft compound Folding tyres/tires seem to be holding up well apart from a few things.

• I have had a few wash outs on the front where I just lost grip almost as though I hit some really loose fine gravel. The first one spat me over the bars and the others I managed to rescue just in time (More luck than rider skill….). I am not sure if this is just down to very dry conditions at the moment...... I think I need to put the 2.6 Ultrasofts back on again and ride the same trails where the wash outs occured to compare.
  
  
• They do not like damp rooty sections as much as the 2.6 Ultrasofts. They are okay, but you definitely have to reduce your speed and be a bit more cautious compared to the 2.6 Ultrasofts.
  
  
• The carcass of the tyre/tire appears to be much more prone to cuts and slices than the 2.6 Ultrasofts. The good news is I have not had any of the side knobs tear off like the old versions of Nobby Nics used to so this is a positive. The rear tyre/tire appears to suffer a lot more damage than the front for some reason.... The front only appears to suffer cuts to the knobs while the rear suffers cuts and slices to the knobs and the carcass. It could be that the damage on the rear is actually being done whilst braking which sort of makes sense to me. Please see the photos below showing the damage to the rear tyre/tire as there are a number of cuts and slices around the entire circumference which is more than a bit concerning.
  
  
• Wear rate seems to be okay apart from all the cuts and slices. However, saying that I think these tyres/tires are not going to last much longer than the 2.6 Ultrasofts. Before I took the 2.6 Ultrasofts off I had completed 83 rides and travelled 1450km /900 miles. I would be more than happy to put them back on although I would put what was on the rear on the front and what was on the front on the rear. Doing that I would be confident that I would get at least another 600 to 800km / 370 to 500 miles out of them before having to get a new set.

Final word...
As I stated above, this is PURELY my own opinion and people are free to disagree with the content.

The Magic Mary APEX 2.8 Soft compound Folding tyre/tire is a good tyre/tire and most people that try them on the 'right terrain' I feel, will be more than happy with them. The main negative point is how easy it is to cut and slice the carcass of the rear tyre/tire in the terrain that I have been riding in compared to the 2.6 Ultrasofts which have done almost 3 times the distance with very minimal damage. If you ride in the type of terrain I do there are better tyres/tires out there. I am glad I tried them as it has made it clear to me that the Magic Mary DH carcass 2.6 Ultrasoft Non folding version is still my first choice 'Go to' tyre/tire.


Alternative option - Magic Mary DH carcass 2.6 Ultrasoft Non folding 1.4kgs/3.08lbs

• The 2.6 Ultrasofts are almost indestructible, you can run them at reasonably low pressures as they have a super thick carcass and DH sidewalls. (Check out the Screen shot below). The yellow bit in the screen shot is some sort of hard composite material that you cannot physically bend, unlike the almost 'paper thin' sidewalls of the 2.8 Butchers or for that matter most of the other PLUS tyres out there for sale.
  
  
• They are super grippy and very confidence inspiring on all the terrain noted above in the dry. I also had the same experience when it was damp/wet.
  
  
• Point and shoot the 2.6 Ultrasoft at any rock garden and she will deliver her magic. With the super thick carcass and DH sidewalls you do not need the latest craze of moose/foam inserts available. The 2.6 Ultrasofts really are ‘that good’ at protecting your rims from damage and giving you almost zero punctures.
  
  
• The 2.6 Ultrasofts are heavy, 1.4kgs/3.08lbs plus for each tyre.... Who cares!!!... Well, some of you probably will but on the positive side, you have an ebike, it has a motor and to be honest I did not feel I was having to push any harder to get up to speed or to get up steep hills or my battery ran out any earlier.
  
  
• Almost the same wear rate as the Magic Mary APEX 2.8 Soft compound but less prone to cuts and slices
  
  
• Sticky clay conditions tend to clog them up. However, Sticky clay conditions tend to clog most tyres/tires up. Changing over to Maxxis Shortys or Maxxis Wet Screams or any other purpose built mud tyre will get around this issue. However you will lose the indestructible sidewalls of the 2.6 Ultrasoft by doing so and risk dented rims and pinch punctures unless you can get a mud tyre/tire with a DH rated carcass or Super Gravity rated carcass.

The soon to be released Schwalbe Eddy Current will probably be another strong contender although it only comes as a 2.8 in the 27.5 format.... Which means having to switch to 29er wheels if I want to go to 2.4 or 2.6.

Hope the above info and photos below helps with your decision.


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[Mcharza]

I'm waiting those Schwalbe Eddy Current tires

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

I'm waiting those Schwalbe Eddy Current tires

Same here

 

[Dax]

Update on butchers - rode them for some propper rooty fod single track in the wet, running at about 23-25psi (on my track pump...so knows how accurate it is). Tyres worked well, didn't slip on the roots, hooked up and always found grip. Then did some fast flowy singletrack, would break away on the loose top layer, but always found grip without any input from me. Can't fault them so far.

 

[jwrx]

I dont have grip issues with the stock butchers...but this is the condition of my rears after just 180km...less than 2 months of riding.

On my manual Yeti, im currently running Hans Damphf which are over a year old, with better looking knobs

I think its the combination of heavy bike + soft compound + heavy rider (85kg)

 

[Donnie797]

View attachment 4154

I dont have grip issues with the stock butchers...but this is the condition of my rears after just 180km...less than 2 months of riding.

On my manual Yeti, im currently running Hans Damphf which are over a year old, with better looking knobs

I think its the combination of heavy bike + soft compound + heavy rider (85kg)

what?? I'm 100kg and did 300km on my Kenevo now - my Butchers are looking much better. Do you ride tarmac often? Or do you slide the rear on breaking?

 

[jwrx]

what?? I'm 100kg and did 300km on my Kenevo now - my Butchers are looking much better. Do you ride tarmac often? Or do you slide the rear on breaking?

trail rides only. yes im a slidey rider...but have never had issues with DHR, DHF, MM, or my current hans

 

[Donnie797]

trail rides only. yes im a slidey rider...but have never had issues with DHR, DHF, MM, or my current hans

okay, that explains the wear on your pics
I had the Nobby Nic on my other bike and some nobs were just missing after the very first ride - 100kg weight and hard breaking on roots have just torn them out. The nobs on the Magic Mary can take that much better.

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

Tried the 2.6 MM yesterday. Offered excellent grip. I need to faff around with pressures a bit, but really liked them.

 

[drjarvis2003]

Just got magic mary 2.6 dh s, today and will run them on spare wheels with tubes to see what happens before I commit to air liners and muc off sealant.

 

[Hinett]

@Rob Hancill does changing to 2.6 instead of standard 2.8 drop the bottom bracket height much?

 

[Rob Rides EMTB]

@Rob Hancill does changing to 2.6 instead of standard 2.8 drop the bottom bracket height much?

Barely. They are only 2.5mm narrower than the standard Butchers (measured with digital calliper).

 

[Hinett]

Barely. They are only 2.5mm narrower than the standard Butchers (measured with digital calliper).

That’s me sold on a pair then ??

 

[Kiwi in Wales]

Tried the 2.6 MM yesterday. Offered excellent grip. I need to faff around with pressures a bit, but really liked them.

View attachment 4705

I was running mine with 17 to 18 psi but have moved up the scale to try @Gary recommendations of higher pressures. Currently running 25 psi front and rear and found no issues at this pressure. They do seem to feel a bit more stable through fast corners though but it is still early days yet. I am 73KG all kitted up.

 

[Donnie797]

Barely. They are only 2.5mm narrower than the standard Butchers (measured with digital calliper).

@Rob Hancill is this measured on the nobs itself or on the sidewalls? I do ask because the MMs do have much bigger nobs than the Butchers and there's not much space left between the Butcher & the mounted mudhuggers. Not 100% sure the 2,6 MM will fit and it would be a shame to dismount the newly added mudhuggers...

 

[JonasH]

My first run on the MM DH Wire 2,6 was SO mutch better than the stock Butcher. Bye bye to the squishy feel and medium traction, hello to super precise, mega predictible and super grip tires that you get from MM. Just feel that they were made for this bike and that kind of travel. i ran 20psi front and 23psi back (digital) i'm 73kg I really can recoment it! Major problem with the butcher tires asides medium grip was that going down rockgardens in full throttle, the tire could not hold the air, farts out. BANG and you have a big rim ding. got 5-6 of thes beacause of this. Started with more that 20psi every time... I simply could not wait for the Eddy Current, i probably would have no rim left to put them on...

But, could be that the Butcher tires will fit other kind of riding style than mine.

 

[profgruen]

dear all

can tell experience after 3 days in the alps and 3 days in finale ligure. heavy enduro riding im finale, moderarate trail riding in reschen/sölden.

first of all: kenevo is awesome on difficult trails. lies fine on the trails, neutral im jumping.

the mm 2.6 ultrasoft dh came 3 days before reschen and they offered unlimited grip. really great especially on the difficult trails of finale ligure. disadvantage but i knew this beforehand is that the tyres dismount profile very fast. after this 5 (but really hard) days they look like a minion after 3 years ?).
i'll stay with mm which i also ride on my spec enduro since years.

however, does anyone have experience with both ultrasoft and soft mm?

profgruen

 

[profgruen]

Addendum to the Magic Mary DH Ultrasoft:

After 470 kilometres (not miles!) on these tyres fron tyre lost appx 1/4 and rear tyre appx 1/2 of profile. First appx 300 km grip was awesome but bnow I feel especially on rear tyre that grip declines very strong.

I will have to change rear tyre and think of trying a MM Soft but nope - not available for
27,5x2.6 in SG or DH.

Alternatively I think about new Eddy Current on rear tyre in SG Soft. Only point its only available in 2.8, not 2.6. Asked Schwalbe if they are going to provide 2.6 SG Soft.

Does anyone worldwide still have experience with the new Eddy Current and possibly could coompare them with the MM?

 

[dirkbike]

I'm not sure where this notion of running mid teen's PSI came from but in order for the Butcher 2.6/2.8's to really grip and feel confident, you need to run them mid 20's. I've ran both the 2.6 and 2.8's and am really loving the rounder profile of the 2.8's. I've found 23 psi front, 26 psi rear to be the sweet spot for me. 165 lbs rider weight, naked.

 

[Gary]

I'm not sure where this notion of running mid teen's PSI came from

old men on fatbikes who rarely corner

 

[All Mountain Coaching]

Butcher 29 2.6, works great in the loam muddy trails, sketchy on hard pack and pebbles. That's my first impression.