Kenevo Gen1 Kenevo 2019 strange problems

[Rich118]

Hi All,

Sorry for the long sprawl of text..

I have recently bought a Kenevo 2019 off a friend which is now a few months out of warranty. The bike had recently had a replacement battery. On a ride last week the bike momentarily cut power going up a hill but it came back very quickly. Later in the ride a similar thing occurred and this time it took removing the connector to the battery off and back on to get it to re assist. After that it was fine for the rest of the ride.

I went out again, in wet conditions and the bike was fine but cut out a couple of times, both times needing the connector to be removed to make it work again. I ensured it all looked clean and dry and it ran fine for the rest of that day.

I opened the side cover up after this ride and it looked pretty messy inside but nothing different to anything i have seen on here. Inside most of the connectors looked fine but the main motor battery connector looked wet inside the motor connection. I used a hairdryer to dry out this connector and also dried out the battery-motor cable. The next ride, the bike ran flawlessly so i thought it was solved.

Sadly, i started it up the next day and nothing would work from startup - none of the remote buttons working, no assist, no walk assist etc. Sometimes the remote buttons would start working again but the bike seemed to almost change the mode back by itself. All with no assist at all. I dried out the connector out some more after this thinking it must be to do with this. It didnt look wet to be honest but didnt think i could lose much. The bike seems to now work with the remote and walk assist and full assist, but strangely for about 1 minute from turning on only (this time does vary a bit). After that, nothing works. The only way to get it back seems to be to remove the battery connector and wait a bit of time then re turn on.

Missions control app is also odd. Often in the motor diagnostics i get no serial number info and no firmware number. This recently does seem to have also come back - Firmware is 5.4.0 if it helps.

Has anyone got any ideas? Its really frustrating! I also buzzed out the motor to battery cable. I get good connection on the two main motor plugs. on the 4 (i think) data lines i only get connection on two. Does this seem right? - my friends kenevo expert 2018 only seems to have 2 data pins!?

Any help is much appreciated

 

[Zimmerframe]

The TCU is part of the battery on the older bikes, rather than being a separate item - in the top tube on the newer bikes - so you can get some mixed results from mission control sometimes.

I take it when you power it on, the +/- buttons on the battery work to change the mode ?

You say you've cleaned/dried the cable, which would be the normal issue. Check for tiny metal particles either on the cable or the battery socket - it's magnetic so pics up things sometimes which you don't see.

Next most logical thing to try is a new motor to battery cable. The cable/plug could have become damaged at some point, either through repeated use, moisture ingress a good bosh ! ..

There's a tiny chance the new battery has a fault, so you could try with your mates battery.

If it's neither of those then it's most likely moisture in the motor.

Every now and again you get some weird anomalies with a faulty handlebar controller, so you could also try it with that unplugged from the motor to rule it out.

 

[Rich118]

@Zimmerframe , thanks for this information.
Yes, the battery + - always seems to be fine. Also did forget to mention - tried my friends battery and yep does the same thing so I think that rules out the battery.
Also yes, tried without the handlebar remote (4 pin connector I think) and no change in issues with power to motor.

i will take A close look inside the connector cable as you have mentioned also.
If it’s the motor, is there anything that can be done to sort this or is is new motor?!

Thanks

edit: extra video link here if this helps. Really weird thing going on with this motor connection.It started doing it after hairdryer on the connector.It sort of looks electrical but can’t see how it can be as the battery is fully disconnected.The more normal thought would be water through some sort of capillary action due to hairdryer heat maybe. Really odd but not doing it now.
Only thing I get when it stops working is a bit of an electrical hum from the motor / battery area but this could be normal as it is quiet and not obvious.

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[congerball]

Just watched that video…is it my eyes or is there some sort of electrical spark/arcing weirdness going on in that ‘right port’ bit of the connection?!

 

[Rich118]

Yes it looks like that but surely it must be water? How is it still charged without the battery connected? Either way it doesn’t look great. Anyone have any ideas on this?

 

[Zimmerframe]

That is weird .. Could be the LED lighting pulsing/reflecting out of sync ... Water Bubbles ? Do you shower with the bike ?

@Bearing Man Maybe you could shed some more logical/intellectual/experience on it ?

 

[Mikerb]

The OPs video together with a low humming noise coming from the motor both suggest arcing across that connector...probably discharging a capacitor..........and caused by water or dirt. The most likely way water or dirt could get in there is via the battery to motor cable. I suggest cleaning and drying out that motor end connection and replacing ( or at least inspecting and repairing) the battery to motor cable. Not sure if that cable is the same or similar to the battery cable originally fitted to the Levo. Many of those failed, usually with the cable outer not being sealed to the end connector and therefore allowing water ingress. It was replaced with a V3 battery to motor cable and that resolved that problem.

 

[Rich118]

@Mikerb , thanks for the suggestions. I think the cable is the same, it certainly is “open” with no outer insulation just after the motor connection point. Or did you mean the connection to the battery connector on the other end?
I will try drying it some more. The fact that the problem seems extremely intermittent would suggest water of sorts causing issues. The motor seems otherwise fine when it’s going.

 

[congerball]

Something strange is definitely going on in there, like zimmer said maybe @Bearing Man could advise. I’d also be tempted to ask your mate if the motor had ever been submerged in water too? If he’s a proper mate I’d be offering to cover/help towards the cost of getting it fixed (depending on how ‘recently’ you bought it) Or maybe I’m being too generous

 

[Funky Bolly]

I have a 2019 Kenevo and the problems you have I experienced last year .I contacted the shop I purchased it from. Yep you know who and the asked me to send the handle bar remote , well. A few days later a new remote button arrived and it must have been an upgrade model because it was a 2 piece item well it cured my problem . Berkshire cycles top job YET AGAIN !

 

[Rich118]

Something strange is definitely going on in there, like zimmer said maybe @Bearing Man could advise. I’d also be tempted to ask your mate if the motor had ever been submerged in water too? If he’s a proper mate I’d be offering to cover/help towards the cost of getting it fixed (depending on how ‘recently’ you bought it) Or maybe I’m being too generous

don’t think it’s been in anything above the bottom bracket. I haven’t had it long off him but he is a good friend and genuinely had no problems like this. I got it for a good price off him and I feel when you buy a second hand bike like this you have to accept that some things may just start playing up.The timing is certainly bad luck though! I know it was fine prior as we went out on many rides with him using this bike. Plus, if it is the motor, and I get a fresh one, I feel that’s hopefully the most major components that will be fresh (battery and motor).
If it does some to it, can you get motors off specialized? And do they warranty those parts if so?

 

[Rich118]

@Funky Bolly thats interesting. Did you have assist issues as well then? Did you try unplugging the remote and see if it still plays up? I was figuring that “check” helped rule out the remote but maybe it’s not that simple!

 

[Mikerb]

@Mikerb , thanks for the suggestions. I think the cable is the same, it certainly is “open” with no outer insulation just after the motor connection point. Or did you mean the connection to the battery connector on the other end?
I will try drying it some more. The fact that the problem seems extremely intermittent would suggest water of sorts causing issues. The motor seems otherwise fine when it’s going.

In which case it sounds like your cable is completely open to the elements...post a photo of the cable to confirm.

 

[Rich118]

In which case it sounds like your cable is completely open to the elements...post a photo of the cable to confirm.

here’s a pic. If it’s of any help, I can have the bike on the bike stand with walk assist on.Not touching the cable or the bike and suddenly the assist will just stop. As per othr posts, i cannot get the bike to go again after that. Usually the remote buttons start playing up once this has occurred also. Only thing that seems to get it back to work is unplugging the battery and Leaving it for a while.

 

[Mikerb]

here’s a pic. If it’s of any help, I can have the bike on the bike stand with walk assist on.Not touching the cable or the bike and suddenly the assist will just stop. As per othr posts, i cannot get the bike to go again after that. Usually the remote buttons start playing up once this has occurred also. Only thing that seems to get it back to work is unplugging the battery and Leaving it for a while.

View attachment 79628

I have no idea if that is in its original condition but I can see no rationale for the white section and then no outer sheath after that. From 2020 the Kenevo used the same power cable as the Levo.
Regardless, and I cannot really tell from the photo, where the section of outer sheath which is about 15mm long joins the end cap it must form a perfect seal. Also where the wires go into that 15mm section of outer sheath it should be fully sealed. If that is not the case dirt/dust and water can go directly into the end cap. You can use something like Aquasure to ensure there is a complete seal at both points once you have ensured the cable and cap are completely dried out.

 

[Bearing Man]

I would agree totally with @Mikerb this is back feeding from a capacitor and you are watching electrolysis in progress. Not sure why manufacturers don't fit diodes on this line? Yamaha and Impulse are the same. As you reconnect the power plug or battery you can get a big flash and pop! As the capacitor recharges! Still makes me jump every time it happens.
The new plugs now have a sealed cable so the water can not get into the loom.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I would agree totally with @Mikerb this is back feeding from a capacitor and you are watching electrolysis in progress. Not sure why manufacturers don't fit diodes on this line? Yamaha and Impulse are the same. As you reconnect the power plug or battery you can get a big flash and pop! As the capacitor recharges! Still makes me jump every time it happens.
The new plugs now have a sealed cable so the water can not get into the loom.

New web site ????

 

[Rich118]

@Mikerb and @Bearing Man , thanks, some really interesting information.

I have put some waterproof dielectric grease at either end of the battery to motor cable to prevent ingress through the cable itself.

regarding this whole crazy capacitor issue - I have dried out the connector and See no remaining water on it. I am however still getting the issues and what I think are some odd electrical type noises that sometimes seem to occur. Over time, the bike seems to slowly be behaving better since drying it but not enough that you could take it out on a ride. Be lucky if it works for a few minutes before giving up currently.
What else do you think I can do to fix this or does it mean new motor?

 

[Mikerb]

Clean both the cable connector and the socket on the motor with contact cleaner. Maybe also try feeding some warm air into the socket using a hairdrier. If water has ingressed into the socket via the power cable it may be as well to lay the bike down such that any water can run out from the socket. Laying some tissue paper across the face of the socket will show any damp that has egressed. Keep the bike in a warm environment when doing the a bove.