Just ready to pull the trigger! final doubts and fears

[arawa]

Yes. I have replied on another purchase thread that after initial (fairly painful) teething problems both my friend and I are getting on fine with our Flyons. And despite the massive power available, if used with discretion the range is decent.
Again as posted elsewhere, I stress for our purposes (elderly and wanting to carry fishing and camping gear up steep Highland hill tracks) the Flyon has no peer. But compared with my older Hardseven it is heavy and less agile. I actually prefer to use the Hardseven at the moment when I do not need the Flyon’s grunt.

 

[Jetpilot]

How long ago did you get the flyon? I thought they had sorted some of the teething problems.
That range doesnt sound great,do you think it was running properly? have others had that problem?

cheers

January this year.

I know of a friend of a friend who also returned one for range issues, by all accounts he achieved less than me. Teething problems are one thing, inherent design flaws are a separate matter, unless they have rolled out a replacement larger battery, the range issue isnt changing.

As others have said though, its just my findings, if its what you want one go get one, or, see if you can get an extended demo to make up your own mind, if you can I suggest that for anything on your list.

 

[billp91311]

Hi all,

Been riding MTBs since 30 years ago and cannot avoid the itching of buying an eMTB now. I just want to ride double the distance and go higher in the mountain!

While checking models, I took into consideration the following points
1) My normal use is on paths and easy trails. No hardcore enduro at all
2) After a hard car accident (drunk dude missing a red light) I suffer from frequent neck pains if forcing some angles. I need to be as straight as possible hence avoiding racing positions. Need to be more perpendicular against the road. Looks like All Mountain and Trail types are best suited?
3) 1.74m hight // 5ft 6.5 inches and 100kg // 220 pounds weight
4) Budget is limited to 7,000€ // 6,000GBP // 7500USD

Bearing in mind all the above, I look for All Mountain and Trail models. The list has been cut down to this
- Haibike XDURO AllMtn 8.0
- Mondraker Crafty Carbon R
- Mondraker Dusk RR 29
- Commencal Meta Power 29
- Giant Trance E+0
- Specialized Turbo Levo Comp
- Orbea Wild FS M10
- Merida Eone 40 8000
- BH Atom X Carbon Lynx

Is there any of those you see being a bad option? My mind is changing every day. For example I wanted hard the Turbo Levo but I'm afraid of the Brose issues. Like as well the Giant due to the Mastro system but battery looks too small. Hibike looks like being a beast due to the motor... EeeeeK!! it is so difficult!!

My fear is the temperature in Madrid. I don't like the idea of riding the bike 2 months during summer at 38-42ºC with motor and battery on load while knowing how high temperatures degrade batteries above 35º. I do have a BMW Evolution electric scooter and pay lots of attention to that counting on its battery having a cost of 5,000€ !! It is 6 y old and has already degraded substantially holding no more than 80% charge anymore... and that's not bad at all for 6y. In an eMTB the battery doesn't botther much as long as I can buy one more for 700€ but the motor, so encapsulated and with not much air flow at 40º going up... I can melt it!!

Another bike to consider is the Motobecane Hal Eboost from Bikes direct. External mount battery version is 3499 and internal mount is 3999. Includes free delivery and no tax man to pay.

 

[ScuzzII]

Don’t worry about the motors . Most of them have apps that allows some form of tuning . They will all do the job. It s about handling . You are buying a mtb , not a drag car. Assuming the bike fits you , Get the bike with the best shocks /brakes your money can afford. That will probably be which top end bike from your LBS has the biggest discount on their top end bike . I bought the giant reign eo pro . Very happy .

 

[Tim G]

I'm new to emtb myself and pulled a similar trigger 12 days ago and bought a Orbea Wild FS M-Team and have no regrets on how it rides.

The Bosch motor decouples if you turn it off or ride beyond the limit. I rode with the wife today and did 80% of the ride with the motor off (including some small climbs) and in Eco the rest of the time.

I'm 6'2" (188cm) and bought an XL and ride fairly upright due to the sizing (and reach) being more conservative than some other equivalent bikes. However, I'm not sure which size would suit you but the following review might help as the testers were near your height:

Orbea WIld FS Review - One of the best ebikes! | The Loam Wolf

It's xcellent bike which can handle way more than I can but in the end it's your choice.

Best of luck and let us know what you decide.

Tim

 

[ScuzzII]

Think of it this way , what do u NOT want to break down when your 10 km into the forest It is tyres first , then chain /running gear , then forks , then brakes . Motor - battery is the last thing on your list to worry about ( assuming u buy from a lbs - if on the other hand , u are buying on line - you want the most reliable motor - electric system as sending it away will be a hassle )
Cheaper bikes have cheaper tyres /rims /running gear . They are all the things that cause u probs on the trail .
Cheaper shocks and brakes cause handling problems
Every bike on the list has a motor that will get u up every hill .
Buy quality components

 

[Swissete]

Just had a quick look about and can't find the threads I was looking for. There are these two but I think both @arawa and @Jetpilot have both recently posted about their experiences in another thread - with mixed results, but on the whole suggesting an improving situation.

Beta testing a Flyon! - EMTB Forums

First impressions - Flyon Alltrail 6.0 - EMTB Forums

Thanks, Zimerframe. Checking them now!

 

[Swissete]

BTW. I'm shortening a bit more the list of options to the ones below with no order of preference. What do you guys think would be the best? anything speciall good or wrong with any?

1) Trek Rail 9.8: Carbon, RS Lyric, RS Deluxe RT3, Shimano SLX, SRAM GX Eagle, Bosh 625Wh.


2) Orbea Wild FS M10: Carbon, Fox 36 Float performance, Fox DPX2 performance, Shimano SLX, Shimano XT, Shimano XT, Bosh 625Wh


3) BH Atom: Carbon, Fox 36 float performance, Fox Float DPS performance, SLX, SLX, XT, Brose 720Wh.


4) Cannondale Habit Neo 1: Carbon, RS Pike Ultimate 140, RS Super Deluxe Ultimate, SRAM X01/GX Eagle 12-speed drivetrain - Magura MT7, Bosh 625Wh


5) Haibike AllMtn 8.0: Carbon, Fox 36 Float Performance Elite, Fox Float performance elite, Flyon 630Wh

 

[Swissete]

January this year.

I know of a friend of a friend who also returned one for range issues, by all accounts he achieved less than me. Teething problems are one thing, inherent design flaws are a separate matter, unless they have rolled out a replacement larger battery, the range issue isnt changing.

As others have said though, its just my findings, if its what you want one go get one, or, see if you can get an extended demo to make up your own mind, if you can I suggest that for anything on your list.

Is it so short the range with he Haibike? From some other reviews I read that in the end, the level of assistance a Flyon gives you in ECO is only comparable in % to the assistance of the others in 2nd or 3rd level hence cannot really compare Eco vs Eco range.

 

[OldGoatMTB]

Shimano ebike systems are the most reliable and will give you the best ride for your buck!

 

[arawa]

Is it so short the range with he Haibike? From some other reviews I read that in the end, the level of assistance a Flyon gives you in ECO is only comparable in % to the assistance of the others in 2nd or 3rd level hence cannot really compare Eco vs Eco range.

Under lockdown I am only doing about 7 mile runs with a total ascent of 820 ft. I can easily manage 4 such trips on one charge with my Alltrail 6.0.
My friend with the same bike (age 71, quite heavy and not especially fit) manages 23 miles with some decent climbs on 70% of his battery.

 

[simonk]

Shimano ebike systems are the most reliable and will give you the best ride for your buck!

Bold statement! Got anything to back that up?

 

[simonk]

FWIW I’d be drawn to the Trek most if that were my shortlist.

 

[Swissete]

FWIW I’d be drawn to the Trek most if that were my shortlist.

Is that based on what pls? components? looks? warranty?

I'm a bit more tempted myself for the Haibike for the motor and looks but that's far from scientific

 

[simonk]

Is that based on what pls? components? looks? warranty?

I'm a bit more tempted myself for the Haibike for the motor and looks but that's far from scientific

Based on not much really, other than I like the Trek brand, I think it’s the best looking in that line up, I’ve liked every Trek I’ve ever ridden, and a good friend of mine (who’s also a manager for a small chain of bike shops in my part of the world) rates them very highly.

 

[Swissete]

Based on not much really, other than I like the Trek brand, I think it’s the best looking in that line up, I’ve liked every Trek I’ve ever ridden, and a good friend of mine (who’s also a manager for a small chain of bike shops in my part of the world) rates them very highly.

Good stuff, thanks

 

[Vfour800]

Is that based on what pls? components? looks? warranty?

I'm a bit more tempted myself for the Haibike for the motor and looks but that's far from scientific

Sounds like you have already made up your mind with the Haibike as The TQ motor is appealing.
working on your first post where you list your neck issue as one of Your parameters don’t forget the Haibike is up-to 6kg heavier than any of the others. If you are planning on lifting it onto/off a vehicle....

 

[MrBrownstone]

Bold statement! Got anything to back that up?

Google will tell that the man speaks the truth. 4 trek rails in my local area and all 4 guys are having problems with the Bosch motors and batteries after a couple months of use. One guy limped back to his truck yesterday after his motor shut off every time he hit a rock or root. 15 times it shut off and he headed home. The other guys are having to use big zip ties to keep the motors from shutting off. Then there’s the famous Bosch rattle....

 

[billp91311]

I like the new bosch motors reviews and specs but not have not tried one yet and the flyon is so new who knows what you maybe getting into and brose are nice but problematic from what I have read. Here is the Shimano site that lists all bike brands with their motors. Good luck in whatever you choose. List of all STEPS mountainbikes - SHIMANO STEPS MTB

 

[simonk]

Google will tell that the man speaks the truth. 4 trek rails in my local area and all 4 guys are having problems with the Bosch motors and batteries after a couple months of use. One guy limped back to his truck yesterday after his motor shut off every time he hit a rock or root. 15 times it shut off and he headed home. The other guys are having to use big zip ties to keep the motors from shutting off. Then there’s the famous Bosch rattle....

If you ask Google the right questions you’ll find all motors have their positives, negatives, and are capable of failing. As to what the other chap said - it read like opinion dressed up as fact to me, which is why I questioned it.

 

[Swissete]

Google will tell that the man speaks the truth. 4 trek rails in my local area and all 4 guys are having problems with the Bosch motors and batteries after a couple months of use. One guy limped back to his truck yesterday after his motor shut off every time he hit a rock or root. 15 times it shut off and he headed home. The other guys are having to use big zip ties to keep the motors from shutting off. Then there’s the famous Bosch rattle....

Is that due possibly to battery disconnecting? yesterday I mounted a Trek Rail 9.8 and saw the battery was not too firmly attached to the frame. Pressing it with your finger would move it so in a jump who knows what would happen.

The zip ties were for the motor or for the battery?

 

[MrBrownstone]

Is that due possibly to battery disconnecting? yesterday I mounted a Trek Rail 9.8 and saw the battery was not too firmly attached to the frame. Pressing it with your finger would move it so in a jump who knows what would happen.

The zip ties were for the motor or for the battery?

Yes exactly. Wonky battery to motor connection. Zip ties are used to stabilize the connection.

 

[MrBrownstone]

If you ask Google the right questions you’ll find all motors have their positives, negatives, and are capable of failing. As to what the other chap said - it read like opinion dressed up as fact to me, which is why I questioned it.

Fair enough?

 

[Jetpilot]

Is it so short the range with he Haibike? From some other reviews I read that in the end, the level of assistance a Flyon gives you in ECO is only comparable in % to the assistance of the others in 2nd or 3rd level hence cannot really compare Eco vs Eco range.

Tbh I am not really interested in a review or debate on what you have read, I am relating from ownership, real world experience and trying to assist with the op's question. I wanted a flyon from when I first saw one, I couldnt wait to "upgrade" from my bosch haibike. I didnt reject it for no good reason, which the same can be said for the dealer who also rejected the whole flyon range from their shop due to so many owner issues.

P.s Eco on the Flyon was like riding my old bosch fat bike without any assistance, so that sounds utter nonsense.

 

[ScuzzII]

? Time for a new bike if zipties are required to hold key parts together

 

[MrBrownstone]

? Time for a new bike if zipties are required to hold key parts together

I haven’t seen the guy since but I’m sure I’ll run into him soon. He said there’s an adjustment recommended by Bosch to remedy the battery to motor connection and this guy is very mechanically inclined and he said that after making the recommended adjustment the problem only got worse. He was pissed.

 

[Swissete]

I haven’t seen the guy since but I’m sure I’ll run into him soon. He said there’s an adjustment recommended by Bosch to remedy the battery to motor connection and this guy is very mechanically inclined and he said that after making the recommended adjustment the problem only got worse. He was pissed.

It looks a bit weird (being polite) needing to put a zip tie one a 7,000USD new bike for the battery not to get disconnnected in jumps... That has been a showstopper for me

 

[Swissete]

Tbh I am not really interested in a review or debate on what you have read, I am relating from ownership, real world experience and trying to assist with the op's question. I wanted a flyon from when I first saw one, I couldnt wait to "upgrade" from my bosch haibike. I didnt reject it for no good reason, which the same can be said for the dealer who also rejected the whole flyon range from their shop due to so many owner issues.

P.s Eco on the Flyon was like riding my old bosch fat bike without any assistance, so that sounds utter nonsense.

The level of assistance and battery percentage drain consumed must be proportional. My logic says that a motor in Eco assisting a 130% will comsume less watts than another one in Eco asissting 150%. The point is that on all levels the Haibike assists more hence consumes more?

Today I tested the Haibike so I have direct experience. The power of the motor is much more noticeable than the BH Atom-x with Brose I tested on Monday. That difference impresses and it provides it still smoothly. The looks by the way are brutal. None of the bikes I've seen including Trek, Orbea and BH look in reality like in pictures but the Haibike is just another story.

Bearing in mind the Trek and the battery movement issues, the Orbea with a couple of bits I don't like and the Atom looking too spaceship and strange... i think I have a winner on the Haibike.

BTW dealer commented Haibike would be releasing a new battery close to 1,000Wh during 3rd quarter fitting in the same space. Take this with a grain of salt as I cannot confirm it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

The level of assistance and battery percentage drain consumed must be proportional. My logic says that a motor in Eco assisting a 130% will comsume less watts than another one in Eco asissting 150%. The point is that on all levels the Haibike assists more hence consumes more?

Today I tested the Haibike so I have direct experience. The power of the motor is much more noticeable than the BH Atom-x with Brose I tested on Monday. That difference impresses and it provides it still smoothly. The looks by the way are brutal. None of the bikes I've seen including Trek, Orbea and BH look in reality like in pictures but the Haibike is just another story.

Bearing in mind the Trek and the battery movement issues, the Orbea with a couple of bits I don't like and the Atom looking too spaceship and strange... i think I have a winner on the Haibike.

BTW dealer commented Haibike would be releasing a new battery close to 1,000Wh during 3rd quarter fitting in the same space. Take this with a grain of salt as I cannot confirm it.

Ignoring the space ship look, what did you think of the atom?

 

[arawa]

Well i can relate to ownership of a Flyon as well

when the flyon is off power it rides with no resistance i can feel so riding along the flat its easy to keep at 17mph or so with no head wind of course .

This puzzles me. When I first got my bike I would have completely agreed with your statement. After the bike went back to my LBS following a complete power failure (sensor problem) and for a software update (2.83), I now lose support at 13mph and it is really hard to pedal beyond this limit. Support cuts in and out very sharply. Below this speed, no problems at all.
When the lockdown is over here in Scotland I will ask my excellent LBS to have a look.