Just picked up a 2021 Trek Rail 7...first ride and big concern

[GrantMeThePower]

The only calliper fault i can think of that would make that sort of noise is one of the mounting bolts coming out. The calliper would then rattle on top of the mount when braking. So why not take a look at it and see if it is just a bolt missing. I suppose an alternative could be that the bolt is still there but the thread is stripped due to overtightening....the thread is in the calliper mount/post so not a calliper fault at all in that case...just needs a new mount/post. DIY seems the best solution to me....do you really want to take it back to a dealer that sold the bike to you with that sort of fault and risk them fixing it?!!

Hi...I can show you a picture of what broke. It isn’t fixable. It’s clear that the housing broke. That’s why I’m not sure if it was installed wrong (ie over tightened or something) or a manufacturing defect (idk-air in the composite?)

I’m trying to attach the picture so you can see where it’s simply snapped. It’s on the bottom and it wasn’t until really examining very closely where they told me to over the phone that I could find it.

 

[Mikerb]

ah ok...close but no cigar! I notice the post is not sitting on the frame..there is a gap. Check to see if the bolt will hold in that thread to see whether the thread in the frame has been stripped. If not I would suggest the calliper bolt was not tightened down, rattled loose and then as the calliper was pulled up by the pads it has snapped that part of the calliper. So it is a new calliper, provided the thread in the frame is OK. I would buy a new one and send the LBS the bill!

 

[GrantMeThePower]

ah ok...close but no cigar! I notice the post is not sitting on the frame..there is a gap. Check to see if the bolt will hold in that thread to see whether the thread in the frame has been stripped. If not I would suggest the calliper bolt was not tightened down, rattled loose and then as the calliper was pulled up by the pads it has snapped that part of the calliper. So it is a new calliper, provided the thread in the frame is OK. I would buy a new one and send the LBS the bill!

I gotta say, though- MAD PROPS to you for guessing based on the sound! You were spot on. Color me impressed!

 

[Jamescoughlan]

Hi...I can show you a picture of what broke. It isn’t fixable. It’s clear that the housing broke. That’s why I’m not sure if it was installed wrong (ie over tightened or something) or a manufacturing defect (idk-air in the composite?)

I’m trying to attach the picture so you can see where it’s simply snapped. It’s on the bottom and it wasn’t until really examining very closely where they told me to over the phone that I could find it.

View attachment 51948

That’s an impressive failure!! If the shop is hours away I would buy a replacement calliper and fit it myself or use an LBS if you’re not confident to do.
minimal cost and hassle plus the quickest solution. You can’t put a price on riding more!

I’m very surprised at the original shops response about it being a Shimano issue. 100% here in the UK it would be the shop.

good luck though mate!

 

[Marley]

I'm also very surprised and would be disappointed that the shop is pointing fingers rather than satisfying a customer whose spent quite a bit of change.

My LBS would replaced the entire rear brake on spot and sent me out the door.

Hope your back out riding soon.

 

[Kernow]

Just check the bolts holding the caliper Not sure on the rear if one is longer than the other but it would be quite obvious if they somehow were in wrong positions , just that it looks like that bolt isn’t tight or fully seated so could be too long for the thread

 

[GrantMeThePower]

Just check the bolts holding the caliper Not sure on the rear if one is longer than the other but it would be quite obvious if they somehow were in wrong positions , just that it looks like that bolt isn’t tight or fully seated so could be too long for the thread

I think the reason it looks so long is because the part of the caliper housing that should be there on the bolt is broken off and missing. Just a guess but we’ll see once it’s fixed next week.

 

[>moto<]

Sorry to hear you've had a problem with your new bike. It's a bummer but at least it's an easy fix. I think if it was me I'd get a new caliper and chuck it on then get the broken one warrantied.

Blake bleeding is surprisingly easy once you've done it and a good skill to have. I bleed my brakes all the time as I hate a spongy brake. If you're not confident/can't be arsed, your LBS would be able to do it pretty cheaply for you.

Good luck with it.

 

[Jubby]

I had the same issue but on a much lesser scale. I was getting some minor chatter on my front brakes after second ride. Turns out either the factory or lbs put the bolts in backwards, as you can clearly see on my photo the spacer there has a thinner and thicker side. The side that had the shorter bolt with deeper threads backed off and caused minor chatter so I stopped riding it immediately and my mechanic found it in 5min. He said to me lucky the spacer didn't break on the longer bolt with shorter thread side.
Glad to hear its getting sorted, if trek or lbs wants to see you again then they should fix it with zero guilt trips period!

 

[Kernow]

I had the same issue but on a much lesser scale. I was getting some minor chatter on my front brakes after second ride. Turns out either the factory or lbs put the bolts in backwards, as you can clearly see on my photo the spacer there has a thinner and thicker side. The side that had the shorter bolt with deeper threads backed off and caused minor chatter so I stopped riding it immediately and my mechanic found it in 5min. He said to me lucky the spacer didn't break on the longer bolt with shorter thread side.
Glad to hear its getting sorted, if trek or lbs wants to see you again then they should fix it with zero guilt trips period!

View attachment 52123

That’s exactly what I was trying to describe above , it’s easily done , I guess

 

[Coolcmsc]

This is awful luck and your LBS being less than supportive is hateful at this stage of the pandemic.

Its also breaking their contract with you in the US.

I’m certain your consumer rights in your State (being in the US) mean your contract is with the entity that sold the bike and everything that the bike comprises. You bought a bike, not a frame and a bunch of components.

Consumer law recognises that. It’s the same for a washing machine. The only difference is that many in this forum are familiar with fixing their bike which makes us feel that the brakes, say, are kinda separate from the bike, being bolted on etc... Well, stop that thinking. The brakes on your new bike are no different to a bearin or whatever inside that washing machine.

Would you accept you had to negotiate with the bearing manufacturer for your broken new washing machine? No! And consumer law would be on your side.

Thats simply not up for debate and don’t trust anybody who disagree. Instead, just go and look it up on-line.

The other side of that coin means that you will break that contract if you do anything to fix it, especially with it being brand new. Just imagine if you took your new washing machine to bits to examine and possibly replace that busted bearing the day after you bought said washing machine. Absurd, right? The same with your bike.

This is another fact in the US and, btw, the U.K.

Your LBS made it’s profit when it sold you the bike. That’s probably why a bad LBS is lying to you.

From now on, all the warranty work costs them the labour time in the service area which they will not get back from you, nor from the brake manufacturer. The warrantied part is supplied free from the manufacturer warranty department to the LBS.

But the LBS has a longer term interest in you, in those you know and so forth. They make money from all that. So, it’s surprising they aren’t helping you. So, its a bad sign that they aren’t. So, take care not to break your side of the contract: you must let them fix this to achieve that, even though they are 4 hrs away....

If you choose to negotiate with them, get those negotiations in writing (email) before going ahead. Only you know your priorities — it sounds like you’re desperate to ride your new bike.

But make no mistake, deviation from insisting the problem is wholly the responsibility of the LBS that sold you the product gives the LBS and the brake supplier/importer/manufacturer a chance to say you broke the contract.

Dreadful, sorry....

 

[Cyclopath1000]

So I've actually seen something almost exactly like that on my buddies new specialized. Somehow the assembly d a 203 spacer instead of a 200 mm spacer. Look at the rotor and the spacer and make sure both are either 203 or 200 mm. That's my guess.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

This is awful luck and your LBS being less than supportive is hateful at this stage of the pandemic.

Its also breaking their contract with you in the US.

I’m certain your consumer rights in your State (being in the US) mean your contract is with the entity that sold the bike and everything that the bike comprises. You bought a bike, not a frame and a bunch of components.

Consumer law recognises that. It’s the same for a washing machine. The only difference is that many in this forum are familiar with fixing their bike which makes us feel that the brakes, say, are kinda separate from the bike, being bolted on etc... Well, stop that thinking. The brakes on your new bike are no different to a bearin or whatever inside that washing machine.

Would you accept you had to negotiate with the bearing manufacturer for your broken new washing machine? No! And consumer law would be on your side.

Thats simply not up for debate and don’t trust anybody who disagree. Instead, just go and look it up on-line.

The other side of that coin means that you will break that contract if you do anything to fix it, especially with it being brand new. Just imagine if you took your new washing machine to bits to examine and possibly replace that busted bearing the day after you bought said washing machine. Absurd, right? The same with your bike.

This is another fact in the US and, btw, the U.K.

Your LBS made it’s profit when it sold you the bike. That’s probably why a bad LBS is lying to you.

From now on, all the warranty work costs them the labour time in the service area which they will not get back from you, nor from the brake manufacturer. The warrantied part is supplied free from the manufacturer warranty department to the LBS.

But the LBS has a longer term interest in you, in those you know and so forth. They make money from all that. So, it’s surprising they aren’t helping you. So, its a bad sign that they aren’t. So, take care not to break your side of the contract: you must let them fix this to achieve that, even though they are 4 hrs away....

If you choose to negotiate with them, get those negotiations in writing (email) before going ahead. Only you know your priorities — it sounds like you’re desperate to ride your new bike.

But make no mistake, deviation from insisting the problem is wholly the responsibility of the LBS that sold you the product gives the LBS and the brake supplier/importer/manufacturer a chance to say you broke the contract.

Dreadful, sorry....

You know what? Your post made me realize something that may be contributing to their choice of words. They realize that they, in all likelihood, won’t be getting return business from me for parts or service in the future due to my location. From their perspective, the “investment” they make into customers for warranty work (which costs them time in the hopes of return loyalty business) won’t be returning value with me because of my location. That’s likely why they wanted to get me to go to a local shop. They figure “that’s who he’ll go buy stuff from, let them do his freebie work”.
Obviously it’s conjecture and hopefully everything works out fine but your post did trigger that thought. Thanks for the support.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

So I've actually seen something almost exactly like that on my buddies new specialized. Somehow the assembly d a 203 spacer instead of a 200 mm spacer. Look at the rotor and the spacer and make sure both are either 203 or 200 mm. That's my guess.

ill have to double check. Thanks for the heads up. Would hate to have it happen again after they replace the caliper

edit-where is the spacer? lol. I can measure the rotor easily enough. But I’m not sure where the other part you’re referring to is.

 

[Jubby]

edit-where is the spacer? lol. I can measure the rotor easily enough. But I’m not sure where the other part you’re referring to is.
[/QUOTE")]

Look at my pic above, the spacer is the metal piece between the caliper and the shock. One side of where the bolts pass through is thicker than the other by almost double the width, which means one mounting bolt is longer than the other.

 

[Coolcmsc]

You know what? Your post made me realize something that may be contributing to their choice of words. They realize that they, in all likelihood, won’t be getting return business from me for parts or service in the future due to my location. From their perspective, the “investment” they make into customers for warranty work (which costs them time in the hopes of return loyalty business) won’t be returning value with me because of my location. That’s likely why they wanted to get me to go to a local shop. They figure “that’s who he’ll go buy stuff from, let them do his freebie work”.
Obviously it’s conjecture and hopefully everything works out fine but your post did trigger that thought. Thanks for the support.

Well, yes, that was my thinking. But I can’t say that, it’s your LBS.

I‘m in the middle of discussing a problem with my 2020 Levo that has taught me all this. I don’t feel it’s safe to give details here until it’s resolved. I’ll come back and explain once it is resolved (I feel sure this forum is looked at by many LBS’s and Specialized and don’t be fooled by a lack of posts by them).

But I know where this poster’s coming from, but the ‘concerns’ under discussion represent a far larger proportion of the value in the product.

 

[Forever Wild]

Thank you all for verifying that I'm not crazy for thinking this is wrong.

Just got off the phone with the bike shop I bought it from. we did some looking over FaceTime and found that the caliper is broken. It is impossible to say if it was a manufacturing defect that allowed it to brake under the first brake or if it was installed poorly (that's my take).

Here's the problem now: They say it is a Shimano problem, not a trek one. And that they would have to work with Shimano to get it "warrantied". To make the problem worse, they are about 4.5 hours away (the only place I could find that had one in stock) and they want me to go to the closest Trek dealer to get it fixed. But I sort of want this one week only, ridden only one time, bike fixed by the people that sold it to me. They just said that they will work on it and see what they can do but they really did encourage me to take it locally instead. In the end they sounded like they wanted to be helpful but it was off-putting to feel that they just didn't want to deal with it.

I bought my trek over an hour away because they had a bike I wanted. The trek store 10 minutes from me has done all of my warranty work for free(bent rim,Battery mis-aligned, new tire, etc). I think they’re giving you good advice. You need to establish a relationship with your lbs anyway.

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I bought my trek over an hour away because they had a bike I wanted. The trek store 10 minutes from me has done all of my warranty work for free(bent rim,Battery mis-aligned, new tire, etc). I think they’re giving you good advice. You need to establish a relationship with your lbs anyway.

Yes! I was talking to a mate who bought a brand new bike from the LBS I use for servicing (not the original purchase though) & he was grumbling over their non-plussed attitude towards chasing up on delivery dates etc. I reminded him that I foster relationships with them because even though I'm a 'customer' they are more valuable to me than I am to them.

 

[Coolcmsc]

Yes! I was talking to a mate who bought a brand new bike from the LBS I use for servicing (not the original purchase though) & he was grumbling over their non-plussed attitude towards chasing up on delivery dates etc. I reminded him that I foster relationships with them because even though I'm a 'customer' they are more valuable to me than I am to them.

A sad truth managed by a wise approach. Why is it like this?

 

[Rosemount]

 

[Rusty]

Hi...I can show you a picture of what broke. It isn’t fixable. It’s clear that the housing broke. That’s why I’m not sure if it was installed wrong (ie over tightened or something) or a manufacturing defect (idk-air in the composite?)

I’m trying to attach the picture so you can see where it’s simply snapped. It’s on the bottom and it wasn’t until really examining very closely where they told me to over the phone that I could find it.

View attachment 51948

I showed that pic to the owner of my LBS. He is positive that the cause is that it was badly put together.
He has a long history working for an importer andhas seen it several times. The front mount bolt was tightened up fully then the rear one was tightened loading up the front one - or vice versa.

 

[GrantMeThePower]

I showed that pic to the owner of my LBS. He is positive that the cause is that it was badly put together.
He has a long history working for an importer andhas seen it several times. The front mount bolt was tightened up fully then the rear one was tightened loading up the front one - or vice versa.

Interesting. Thanks for that feedback. What an amazing forum!

I wonder if I should do anything when I pick it up from repair to double check it was done correctly. It seems like a tough thing to tell visually.

 

[Kernow]

Interesting. Thanks for that feedback. What an amazing forum!

I wonder if I should do anything when I pick it up from repair to double check it was done correctly. It seems like a tough thing to tell visually.

It’s worth watching this vid. Aligning your brakes is an easy job and something you’ll need to do quite regularly . Just the bit where both bolts are just snugged up but allow the caliper to move is the most important bit . It will probably obvious what may have happened to yours when you see this . Although a bike shop that can’t do these very basic set ups is a pretty poor set up .

 

[High Rock Ruti]

Sounds like you have either some really weird resonance from air in the system, or an unseated calipers, warped disks, unattached disks, anal vibration, incorrectly bedded in pads to the extreme, wheels not attached correctly.

High Rock Ruti ?

Zimm easy on the new guy ?

Warm Regards

Ruti

 

[Mikerb]

Interesting. Thanks for that feedback. What an amazing forum!

I wonder if I should do anything when I pick it up from repair to double check it was done correctly. It seems like a tough thing to tell visually.

unless you know the actual bike mechanic that did whatever work on your bike...and you trust him/her to do a good job.........yes. Check everything! It does appear to me that one area of knowledge/experience that is badly lacking in bike mechanics training is an understanding of fasteners. Given the materials our bikes are made from and the rigours the bike has to withstand that aspect is important. The other area more understandably is electronics.

 

[KCMitch]

Hi all- I would have considered just getting a new one and installing it, however, while my bike maintenance skills are not entirely zero, I haven't installed new calipers or bled lines before. I don't mind learning when the need arises but this bike is brand new. I want to make sure it is done perfectly to start.

As for the issue of Trek vs Shimano being responsible, I had another phone call with the service manager at the shop today and sort of pressed him about it. He said something to the extent of, "yeah, you'd think it would work that way, huh? Unfortunately the bike industry doesn't function like that. Trek would tell us to contact Shimano, which we did, and they will warranty it. They are shipping us a new part. The problem is that no one reimburses us for our labor and we don't feel right charging you."

But, like, that was kind of my point about taking it to my local dealer for the warranty too when I talked to him the first time. I was thinking, why would I make this THAT stores problem? They've got no skin in the game, they didn't make any money on selling me the bike, and I'm supposed to make a problem for them?

The whole thing is weird.

It doesn’t take but a few minutes to swap and bleed the system. Buy something from them and then go back a few times. They will appreciate it. Leave them a good review and tell ur riding buddies.

 

[Coolcmsc]

.... It does appear to me that one area of knowledge/experience that is badly lacking in bike mechanics training is an understanding of..... more understandably ....electronics.

Excellent! I think that when they came in, poor understanding of electronics was "more understandable".

But I don’t think that now. The price of an e-bike in the U.K. is enough to buy a recent second hand car stuffed full of far more electronics than any e-bike. And they have a bigger ‘frame’, brakes and wheels and dampers and springs on all four corners as well as the electrics.

Some of the top of the range e-bikes are the same price as a brand new completely electric car that can do 50mph and 50 miles like the Renault Twizzy below, spec’d today.

The battery in the Twizzy is 6.1kWhr — that‘s nearly 10 times more amps than the battery in similarly priced top spec e-mtbs.

When I take my Twizzy in for a service or a fix (no I don’t have one), what should be my attitude to the knowledge about electronics for this similarly priced vehicle? It has twice as many wheels, twice as much suspension, much more wiring, many more switches, a more complicated computer to plug that laptop into and, above all else a battery that alone, being 10 times bigger than the e-MTB equivalent would cost the same as the whole car in our world....

 

[Mikerb]

The electronic management on a car is far more sophisticated than our bikes with pretty detailed diagnostic records retained on the EMS and sensors everywhere, so a plug in to the EMS tells a mechanic where the fault is. Add to that ( more especially a dealership) mechanics have to attend/pass specific training courses to work on various models.
Very little access is provided to bike mechs on the electrical components of our bikes and I doubt if any of them are capable of even simple electrical testing to find a disconnection or short circuit. So fixes are best guess using replacement components when most of the time electrical faults are due to connections.

 

[Coolcmsc]

The electronic management on a car is far more sophisticated than our bikes with pretty detailed diagnostic records retained on the EMS and sensors everywhere, so a plug in to the EMS tells a mechanic where the fault is. Add to that ( more especially a dealership) mechanics have to attend/pass specific training courses to work on various models.
Very little access is provided to bike mechs on the electrical components of our bikes and I doubt if any of them are capable of even simple electrical testing to find a disconnection or short circuit. So fixes are best guess using replacement components when most of the time electrical faults are due to connections.

And what do you think about the money each bike costs as an indicator of how much money bike manufacturers should invest in their dealerships?

 

[GrantMeThePower]

Hi all,

I figured this thread needed some closure. Thanks to all that helped provide original feedback before we figured out the issue.

I took the bike to the shop I bought it from and they installed the new caliper in about 30 min and away I went. So far so good. I’ll be giving it it’s first real ride today.

It feels a bit anticlimactic after all of the discussion on it, but I’m grateful to the community for its support and advice!