Is OFF the new ECO?

[Gyre]

"OFF" on my Orbea Wild is a hell of a slog. Fine on flat surfaces and descents, but the power-off effort is a hell of a lot, especially with 160mm cranks and 34/51 gearing. I'll use it from time to time to conserve battery or to pass other people without flaunting the extra power.

On the other hand, "Eco" does much more than make up for the extra weight and gearing. I certainly wish Bosch was user tunable with a phone app. If I had the power to make adjustments: I'd make "Eco" roughly normalized to an acoustic bike and make the range of "eMTB" go from "Eco" to "Tour". Right now, I just never use eMTB. The minimum level is just too much punch and battery drain.

Turn eco down then.
Turn all your settings down.

As suggested above, OP might be riding a Bosch.

 

[Gary]

34x51 gearing should be plenty low enough to (slowly) grind an Ebike up most climbs while switched off.
My lowest gear is 36x36

 

[thebarber]

I can only speak for the e8000 motor and I switch off when I can.
I use the power modes sparingly but doubt I'd ever ride mostly off.
I do keep thinking about going for a ride without the battery (the bonus of an external battery) but why would I ? I'm usually out with my mates, all e bikes.
I think most of the motors are too powerful and so turned mine down to sensible levels so they're usable and still know I've been out, boost is still redundant tho.
What ever floats your boat I rekon.
Most of all , Enjoy. ?

 

[PhilBaker]

From my perspective I like Zim's earlier comment about "resetting" riding with it off.

When I brought the bike I road Eco a lot, then fell in love with the extra power of Tour but thought "that's enough, plenty of power", then I got the 85nm Bosch update and read most of the benefits where in EMTB so boom, then I road in EMTB and started using a lot more battery pushing really hard.

I've now reading the last few rides back in Tour to get the longer battery life back and whilst it did seem hard at first, I'm now back to enjoying the power again.

Whenever I'm on a long ride and see I'm not going to have enough battery, I turn it off on the flat/downhill, then enjoy the AWESOME power boost of Eco on the hills ?

 

[Akiwi]

I think the best thing you can do, is to start a ride without any power. After a while you get used to it. Then when you hit Eco, it feels like Turbo.
I try to keep the motor off on the flats. For short uphill bits, like over bridges, or when starting at an intersection I briefly turn the Eco on.
What is nice is on a long tour (60 KM or so) when you are absolutely knackered, and just want to get home, you can up the assistance, and it all feels like downhill with a tail wind.

 

[Mteam]

"OFF" on my Orbea Wild is a hell of a slog. Fine on flat surfaces and descents, but the power-off effort is a hell of a lot, especially with 160mm cranks and 34/51 gearing. I'll use it from time to time to conserve battery or to pass other people without flaunting the extra power.

On the other hand, "Eco" does much more than make up for the extra weight and gearing. I certainly wish Bosch was user tunable with a phone app. If I had the power to make adjustments: I'd make "Eco" roughly normalized to an acoustic bike and make the range of "eMTB" go from "Eco" to "Tour". Right now, I just never use eMTB. The minimum level is just too much punch and battery drain.


As suggested above, OP might be riding a Bosch.

I dont find the wild fs that much of a slog, If I'm the only ebike on a ride, I'll often do the first hill with the motor switched off as a bit of a warm up.

It does help massively to flip the climb switch on the shock though, it bobs a lot without it.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I think the best thing you can do, is to start a ride without any power. After a while you get used to it. Then when you hit Eco, it feels like Turbo.

This is what I find my "re-calibration" rides are like ..

Afterwards :

Eco is like Trail.
Trail is like Turbo.
Turbo is like Warp speed Mr Sulu.

Now I'm re-calibrated, today I've done 43km's, 1800m (5900ft), 3.5 hours (though 2 hours/20km/1000m were with a guy on a Spesh Enduro, so our average speed was lower).

I think I might have to do a more regular re-calibration rides .. or try the KiwiQuicky at the start ..

The best thing is I don't feel tired at all ... (complete lie - I was hanging off the bike at the end)

 

[Gyre]

34x51 gearing should be plenty low enough to (slowly) grind an Ebike up most climbs while switched off.
My lowest gear is 36x36

Au contraire! I used to use 20/36 back in 2009. Regularly used 22 and 24/40 since then. I started using 28/50 in 2017. Now I'm using 26/51. All on acoustic bikes.

Speaking for myself, In my entire mountain biking career, there have been a few times that I thought "this gearing is just too high" (mostly when 29ers started to rise in popularity and 3x drivetrains were still common). On the flip side, I've never found a gear combo to be too low to use.

 

[Gary]

Maybe I should have stipulated I was talking about from a fairly strong in shape rider's perspective.

I too was around during the 20t/22t granny ring days. But only ever used 11-28 cassettes back then. 20x 36 would be pointlessly low for me on any bike. As are 50t cassette sprockets.

 

[Johneracer]

The only time I ride in off is on pavement with my kids. Perfectly acceptable that way. All my rides are big climbs, over 2000ft elevation weekend 4000ft. No way it’s doable in off. I have Cush core inserts and run the tires low for grip. I consider eco in my case equivalent to a gravel carbon bike. Not that it matters. I ride in eco 99%

 

[PetrD]

There could be four old bike dynamos installed on one wheel and recharging the battery. This could be ECO-logical training of iron man.

 

[RickBullotta]

I adjust my brakes so that they drag heavily - this helps make ECO the new OFF.

 

[B1rdie]

The only time I ride in off is on pavement with my kids. Perfectly acceptable that way. All my rides are big climbs, over 2000ft elevation weekend 4000ft. No way it’s doable in off. I have Cush core inserts and run the tires low for grip. I consider eco in my case equivalent to a gravel carbon bike. Not that it matters. I ride in eco 99%

I also used to favor riding in eco mode, but in rides in the 4000ft 33 km range I now use trail mode (shimano standard) because I noticed that if i keep the cadence above 80 rpm the difference in power consuming from echo to trail is small and the ramaining charge at the end is well within the “safety” range.

 

[B1rdie]

I adjust my brakes so that they drag heavily - this helps make ECO the new OFF.

I actually do feather the rear brake on climbs where the turbo mode is a must but control of traction demands that.
Like today, on a 30% grade up where the soil changes fro yellow clay to red mud and it is not possible to simply monster truck over it.

 

[Merthyr Martyn]

30k loop today. Wherever I could I switched off. Surprisingly ok. Nothing to extreme obvs, makes ECO feel like turbo when you switch back on again. Good for fitness.

Anyone who rides in eco is a fool

 

[Slapbassmunky]

Anyone who rides in eco is a fool

Why?

 

[markfitton]

Errr..No! ?
Did a 28 mile loop yesterday mainly in tour (approx 3000ft climbing) ... only switching to eco on the downs ..so unless you had a massive amount of climbing I can't see why you would want to switch off at all ..on a ride which is just over 18.6miles..

He said ... its good for fitness, I do it all the time .

 

[Johneracer]

If you are riding In “off” you need to hit some mountains. That would end this topic right away. It’s called a “mountain” bike for a reason

 

[Gary]

 

[jimbob]

The only time I ride with it off is when out with people on non Ebikes.

Personal preference, but to me its more fun with the motor on, so I use it. I can still get a good workout if I want, I just go faster.

 

[nasamorpheus]

I can't ride my cube stereo hybrid 140 in "off mode", much heavier (resistance is noticeable..) than my regular bike. But when I ride it in "eco mode" it's easier until the bike hit speed limit, then it's much harder again. Actually it's not comparable. On normal flat ride regular bike is much more pleasant to ride, ebike has that strange feeling , it's hard to pedal when motor is off, when it's on its pulling too strong.. I believe eco is good compromise but on the latest Bosch update eco mode is stronger, dunno why. I miss costumization on Bosch ebikes.. I always drive at least eco on ebike, that is what you supposed to do on ebike.

 

[EebStrider]

I can't ride my cube stereo hybrid 140 in "off mode", much heavier (resistance is noticeable..) than my regular bike. But when I ride it in "eco mode" it's easier until the bike hit speed limit, then it's much harder again. Actually it's not comparable. On normal flat ride regular bike is much more pleasant to ride, ebike has that strange feeling , it's hard to pedal when motor is off, when it's on its pulling too strong.. I believe eco is good compromise but on the latest Bosch update eco mode is stronger, dunno why. I miss costumization on Bosch ebikes.. I always drive at least eco on ebike, that is what you supposed to do on ebike.

I find my Cube Stereo Hybrid 140 easy to ride switched off, compared to my Whyte, which is much harder to ride switched off, with more resistance.

I still try and ride it switched off as much as possible though. Maybe it’s the 29” vs 27.5” wheels.

 

[RoktMyDog]

Interesting discussion. I've always noticed some that seem to want the hardest option, ie. single speed, fixie or single speed ridgid, the ultimate 'i hate myself' bike.
It's all for fun right?

 

[Marley]

If you are riding In “off” you need to hit some mountains. That would end this topic right away. It’s called a “mountain” bike for a reason

That's it in a nut shell.

We have steep mountainous terrain where I've often pushed a 21lb XC bike.......off is not an option.

 

[RickBullotta]

On my Orbea Rise today (internal 360 WH battery only), I did a 13 mile ride today on very technical terrain, with 1600 feet of climbing, and finished with 80% of my battery remaining. I think that's pretty insanely good. I did ride in "OFF" a good bit (flats and climbs), "ECO" a good bit, and "TRAIL" a tiny bit. I got a good workout. There's NO WAY I could have ridden my Pivot Shuttle in OFF on these trails. The 11 pound weight difference it very noticable. I think the design of the Rise is perfect for a reasonably fit person who wants an eMTB as a "range extender" to ride longer and faster or to add another day or two a week.

 

[Sidepod]

When people quote their ride lengths/amount of climbing would it not be better if a gradient as well as vertical gain was included otherwise it’s meaningless? Also with range, I assume 99% of rides are circular so 50% of that is down hill which makes the battery capacity half of what is quoted? Am I missing something?

 

[Tubby G]

When people quote their ride lengths/amount of climbing would it not be better if a gradient as well as vertical gain was included otherwise it’s meaningless? Also with range, I assume 99% of rides are circular so 50% of that is down hill which makes the battery capacity half of what is quoted? Am I missing something?

Yes you’re right: Take my last ride as an example, 32 miles, 2800 ft elevation, finished on one bar of battery and one mile range. Half of that was an ascent so in theory only 16 miles of battery assist. Either Strava or Garmin don’t have average gradient values so we don’t know what that is but it would be a useful stat to know

 

[Sidepod]

I guess do the same ride in both directions and average it out?

 

[Tubby G]

This climb is demanding enough and it’s all made worthwhile for the huge descent, but I wouldn’t fancy it the other way round!

At present, due to lockdown, all rides are done from my front door and it’s a good 6-10 mile ride (depending upon where I go) uphill on tarmac to get to the trails. Once we can drive further I’ll be getting more trail time off a battery rather than journey time on tarmac

 

[Zimmerframe]

I guess do the same ride in both directions and average it out?

Not that easy on all rides ? My challenge this afternoon is to try to ride up a segment near here called "Jaws" .. averages 28% but it has several nice flat horizontal recovery sections where I hope I can get my breath back.

Sadly the picture doesn't do it justice .. but we like a challenge and if it helps your stats