Interesting experiment with chain life

[lightning]

l am on my third chain on my Ebike.

The first chain was regularly oiled and reached the wear limit at around 700 miles. l replaced the chain and looked after the new one better, used the expensive posh oil, regular chain cleaning with an immersion chain cleaner.

Chain was done for after 700 miles.

So, with the third chain (at 1,400 miles) l had to replace the cassette as it jumped in the high gears.

So this time l tried something different. l didn't oil the chain at all !!
Apart from an occasional spray with GT-85 to banish surface rust (l've ridden in torrential rain and mud more than once)

Now, with 2,100 miles (700 miles on this chain) the chain is showing no wear at all, it's still at 0.25 on the chain checker.

ln addition the drivetrain is still as clean as when l fitted it, usually by now the cassette is black with oil and the jockey wheels have a ridge of gunge on them. (regularly cleaned off as best as l can)

This is the drivetrain tonight, just after getting back from a wet 30 mile on/off road ride hence the spray of mud.

 

[RustyIron]

Oil attracts fine dirt particles, creating an abrasive grinding compound. I use wax-based lubricants, but it never occurred to be to go dry. The wax fills the voids and gaps within the chain plates and pins, sealing out the area from dirt intrusion.

 

[Hobo Mikey]

I replaced my chain and rear cassette this year after 650 miles when it went in for a service. I am still using oil on the new one but will see how it wears. Years ago all I put in my bike chains was GT 85, washed down after each ride and re lubed and re lubed when I went out on the next ride. The chain lasted for hundreds of miles.

 

[anfos]

Chains have this factory treatment so what you might be experiencing is that. Others recommend to degrease before using a new chain and re-oiling it, while others claim that the factory treatment works better, although it's weird if lasted for that long.

 

[aviserated]

Thank you Lightning that does sound interesting. I remember my old 10 speed road bike years ago I never oiled the chain. Rode it for 5 years I know. My driver's licence was suspended 5 years.

 

[Mr President]

very interesting.
I'm going through a chain every 450 miles. 5 chains so far, but cassette is still OK. I've been using muc off dry lube in summer and wet lube in winter. The wet lube especially attracts the dirt and drive train needs a lot of cleaning.
definitely keep us posted on how this progresses, especially the cassette life.

 

[lightning]

l will.

After 1,000 miles l will be replacing the chain to see if the cassette has worn. lf the cassette is okay, l will refit the chain and carry on using it, and will try a new chain after 1,400 miles (which is when l had to replace my original cassette)

 

[Mteam]

l will.

After 1,000 miles l will be replacing the chain to see if the cassette has worn. lf the cassette is okay, l will refit the chain and carry on using it, and will try a new chain after 1,400 miles (which is when l had to replace my original cassette)

Do you put a bag over your brakes when you spray the chain with gt85 ? to stop them getting contaminated with it.

 

[aviserated]

Since I started hot waxing my chain I have not had any chain skipping problems...yet. I remember when bike was new I used wet lubes and chain skipped on smallest cog often...especially after cleaning and relubing. When chain started drying out the skipping was much less. I now hate wet lubes and do not use them on chain.

 

[pampmyride]

Years ago I did a similar experiment on my trials motorcycle. A budget chain/sprox would last a year. I switched to WD40 only lube-ing & that chain lasted one year too. Not sure I'd try it on the fragile & expensive ebike kit though. Happy enough with the wax/puto methods.

 

[Peaky Rider]

Since I started hot waxing my chain I have not had any chain skipping problems...yet. I remember when bike was new I used wet lubes and chain skipped on smallest cog often...especially after cleaning and relubing. When chain started drying out the skipping was much less. I now hate wet lubes and do not use them on chain.

What's with all this 'chain skipping'? Are you saying that even when the cassette and chain are in good condition you would get skipping?
The only times I have experienced chain slip has been because of worn components or poor indexing.

 

[aviserated]

Maybe poor indexing did cause the smallest cog to wear prematurely. Good point.

I still dislike wet lubes and all the dirt and grime it collects.

 

[lightning]

Do you put a bag over your brakes when you spray the chain with gt85 ? to stop them getting contaminated with it.

l use the extension hose and spray it on the chain from a distance of about 3cm so there's no overspray

l have accidentally sprayed GT85 on the brake discs in the past and found that the brake was then somewhat inefficient for a while!

 

[Flyfisha]

There seems to be more than one chain price point when it comes to choosing new Shimano chains? Something not mentioned is the part number or brand names of the chains used in the previous posts?

In Australian dollars it’s $39 for a basic Shimano 10 speed narrow wide chain or $90 for an E bike specific Shimano 10 speed narrow wide chain. Plus or minus a few dollars from shop to shop.

I am getting an average of just under 3000 km /1860 miles from the cheap chains using a minimum amount of dry lube riding 98% of the time on clean bike paths or suburban streets in an extremely dry climate. Without wanting to point the finger at anyone’s cleaning routine I believe it’s where the chain is running and the climate it’s used in that makes the difference?

Surely a metal chain needs the smallest amount of oil residue to be left on after cleaning to stop it going rusty?

I have watched videos on using the wax method but have not tried it yet. It seems like a good idea.
Perhaps for the next cassette ?

 

[lightning]

l've tried various methods.

The climate here is hard on chains, it won't be dry conditions now until April or May next year.

 

[Rich-EMTB-UK]

have switched around over the years between dry wax and wet oils and to be honest have now gone back to lightly oiling, leave overnight then gently remove any excess with a cloth/kitchen towel seems to work fine. If I get a year out of a chain personally very happy but just changed the one on my T/Levo after 1,000 and 2 years. SRAM GX Eagle BTW.

 

[Alexbn921]

So the OP's advice is do nothing to your chain and it will last forever.

LOL

 

[lightning]

The O/P's advice is that he's done nothing to his chain except spray it with GT-85

Currently it appears to be lasting longer than his previous chains that were treated to various oils and cleaning products.

He's going to update the thread when he's done some more miles.

 

[Alexbn921]

How you treat your chain and the lube that you use will have a dramatic impact on your chain life. It only takes a ride with displaced lube to damage the sliding parts leading to premature wear. It's good that the OP has found dry Teflon lube works great for him. I agree and use finish line dry on all my chains.

If you want to get the maximum life out of a drive train, get 3 chains and rotate them every 200-300 or so miles. Clean, lube and store the chain coming off the bike so its ready for next time. They will all wear together and you will get thousands of extra miles out of the system. Then replace everything along with 3 new chains.

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[Bearing Man]

A mate and I generally always rode together, same track, same mileage, we even had the same bikes. He was fastidious with his chain lube. Most expensive snake oil in the shop, dry lube in the summer, wet in the winter. He regularly removed his chain, put it in his sonic bath etc. I on the other hand just used 3 in 1 (I should really use EP90 but too messy). We ride all year round in mostly water, gravel and sandy mud, and guess what? His chain and sprockets don't last a mile longer than mine. If you think about it, why would they? Without O-rings separating and sealing the chain plates and pins, no chain lube will make more that a mile or two difference because you could have the slipperiest substance known to man coating your chain but once the grit gets in between the chain plates and pins it's the beginning of the end. (This experiment was over conducted over 3 years and countless chains and sprockets).
As almost proven above, a bone dry chain will grind the grit up and spit it out, but at the sacrifice of friction. A dry chain can take up to 11 watts from your legs or your battery, so a little lube goes a long wat to help this
As we saw no difference in measured chain stretch or sprocket wear, I still only use 3in1 and ride to work and back off road every day. I first clean the chain with WD40 then apply the 3in1. It will wear out after 30 to 50 miles depending on conditions, but then so does most chain lubes.

I am only saying this so if you accidently run out of your favourite £30 bottle of snake oil, you can get the £3.50 mower oil out of the shed and go for a nice ride without worrying.

 

[Jackware]

A mate and I generally always rode together, same track, same mileage, we even had the same bikes. He was fastidious with his chain lube. Most expensive snake oil in the shop, dry lube in the summer, wet in the winter. He regularly removed his chain, put it in his sonic bath etc. I on the other hand just used 3 in 1 (I should really use EP90 but too messy). We ride all year round in mostly water, gravel and sandy mud, and guess what? His chain and sprockets don't last a mile longer than mine. If you think about it, why would they? Without O-rings separating and sealing the chain plates and pins, no chain lube will make more that a mile or two difference because you could have the slipperiest substance known to man coating your chain but once the grit gets in between the chain plates and pins it's the beginning of the end. (This experiment was over conducted over 3 years and countless chains and sprockets).
As almost proven above, a bone dry chain will grind the grit up and spit it out, but at the sacrifice of friction. A dry chain can take up to 11 watts from your legs or your battery, so a little lube goes a long wat to help this
As we saw no difference in measured chain stretch or sprocket wear, I still only use 3in1 and ride to work and back off road every day. I first clean the chain with WD40 then apply the 3in1. It will wear out after 30 to 50 miles depending on conditions, but then so does most chain lubes.

I am only saying this so if you accidently run out of your favourite £30 bottle of snake oil, you can get the £3.50 mower oil out of the shed and go for a nice ride without worrying.

 

[1oldfart]

At 64 riding daily these last 21 years i never have chain problems.
OK, 3 days ago i had to adjust my cable to have perfect shifting.
I never bought any tiny bottle for big $$$.
My solution for lasting chains, i never broke one, is ....
140 pounds and never shift under load.
I have a 9S HT bike
a 11S HT
and my Ebike is a 10S FS.
All my bikes go out in Canadian winter with ice, snow, salt.
Looking at my chain i add a little oil as needed.
My cassettes last a long time but get replaced when needed
just like my chains.
I am planning on staying away from 12S.
If an 11S 11-50 does not cover the range you need just get a 20S.
Most riders would be happy with a 10S 11-46.

 

[lightning]

Can someone tell me what lubricating effect GT-85 has on a chain.

ls it any use at all as a chain lubricant? Or is it just stopping the chain from going rusty

 

[Troutwrestler]

I use Putolene, and rotate 3 chains, swapping every 100km. After 300km, they all go in the wax for a refresh. I get through more motors than chains.

 

[1oldfart]

I use Putolene, and rotate 3 chains, swapping every 100km. After 300km, they all go in the wax for a refresh. I get through more motors than chains.

What are those cheaps motors a should stay away?

 

[Slapbassmunky]

I'm a lazy *astard, so.

I use candle wax and a very good glug of EP90 in a slow cooker. Wash Chain off with water. Chuck the chain in the pot, cook until done. Put back on bike. I do this whenever it 'needs' it.

My chains last at least 1000 miles in god awful UK slop. I get through ABP bearings every 500 miles or so, so I consider this decent enough. I used to use GT85 to clean and lube in super dry weather, but it's not robust enough to rely on.

Funnily enough in the service manuals for all the motorcycles I've had they say to lubricate the chain with plain engine or gearbox oil. Not the latest and greatest miracle motorcycle chain guff....

 

[118]

I use Putolene, and rotate 3 chains, swapping every 100km. After 300km, they all go in the wax for a refresh. I get through more motors than chains.

What type of riding are you doing? a 'freshly' waxed chain every 100k would only work, terrain dependant surely..

 

[118]

I'm a lazy *astard, so.

I use candle wax

what do you do with all the wicks?

 

[Ymersmoelf]

Degrease the new chain and just spray with Innobike 106 now and then.
Its a polymer that hardens so it does not attract any dirt and last a LONG time.
Works for trails and commuting.
Try it ;-)

 

[Slymobi]

I'm a lazy *astard, so.



Funnily enough in the service manuals for all the motorcycles I've had they say to lubricate the chain with plain engine or gearbox oil. Not the latest and greatest miracle motorcycle chain guff....

Plus 1 for motor oil . I'm now 1500 miles on my original chainset etc, no slip or skips but the chain has started to wear. All I've ever used on my chain is motor oil applied with a paintbrush during rotation, this gives a thin but even application.