I want to build my E-Bike, around a Shimano engine but I need guidance *SOLVED*

[Andrei_]

I apologize if this is not the appropiate section for this type of thread.

So i had a minimum experience with a KTM running on Bosch, a Merida running on Shimano and a Haibike running on Yamaha.

So I draw the following conclusion:

Merida on Shimano (STEPS E7000 Mittelmotor 250 Watt, 60Nm)
Is the only one that satisfied me the most from what i've personally tested, running flawless with absolutely no errors, and the person who owns that bike is washing it like a car in a wash station, that indicates its well protected.

Haibike on Yamaha(PW-ST System, 250 W, 70 Nm, 25 km/h)
Actually my first e-bike i bought, and sent it back within 14 days, the display was already faulty, not functioning well, couldnt turn the light off no'or shut down, and after a ride in the woods down at the engine, it made a constent noise for a few seconds while pedaling, almost as the bearing was not fitting correclty and was trying to adjust (sorry for my english not my 1st language)

KTM on Bosch (cant remember the system)
Almost 3 y/o bike, i think its the first generation, was running well, but if the display was catching any rain, it would stop functioning.


So I want to build my own E-Bike,

- at maximum 3.000€, i dont want anything extreme or top, but something reliable and/or decent
- i want an engine/battery, coated if necesary by me, but to be able to wash it properly like that merida
also im not aware of these websites from where to get the frame, id appreciate if someone points me some.

If you guys have any tips, suggestions, advices, sharing from exprience, im open and like to hear them all, thank you.

 

[Gary]

The Shimano motor, cranks, spider, chainring, battery, battery mounts, charging port, motor mounting bolts, charger, display, wiring. sensors and controllers amount to more than 2000Euros alone
even specing budget wheels, finishing kit, brakes and drivetrain you'd have nothing left for a frame and fork.

Just buy an off the shelf bike and seal any problematic areas.

 

[RickBullotta]

You generally will *NOT* be able to buy the motor and related components separately from a major supplier (Shimano, etc). There's just not enough supply for OEMs much less aftermarket.

 

[Andrei_]

You generally will *NOT* be able to buy the motor and related components separately from a major supplier (Shimano, etc). There's just not enough supply for OEMs much less aftermarket.

hi Rick, thank you for the reply

i've found these on Ebay

are these not accurate ?

 

[Andrei_]

The Shimano motor, cranks, battery, mounts, charger, display, wiring. sensors and controllers amount to more than 2000Euros alone
even specing budget wheels, finishing kit, brakes and drivetrain you'd have nothing left for a frame and fork.

Just buy an off the shelf bike and seal any problematic areas.

to be honest the Merida eOne forty 5000 XL is now at 4k€, pretty tempting, but i dont want to rush yet.

 

[RickBullotta]

hi Rick, thank you for the reply

i've found these on Ebay
View attachment 51505

are these not accurate ?

You're very luck! That's pretty rare to find them available. You'll also need the wiring harnesses of course.

 

[Andrei_]

You're very luck! That's pretty rare to find them available. You'll also need the wiring harnesses of course.

i dont know with the frames, is there a list of trusted sites from where you can get frames, on this forum ?

 

[RickBullotta]

i dont know with the frames, is there a list of trusted sites from where you can get frames, on this forum ?

It seems that most of the DIY projects are based on a Bafang or Brose motor. Here are some thread(s) on that topic including where they sourced their frames. I don't know of a source for a Shimano-capable frame.

My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread - EMTB Forums

Brose DIY build - EMTB Forums

 

[Gary]

hi Rick, thank you for the reply

i've found these on Ebay
View attachment 51505

are these not accurate ?

Yes. Those prices are correct. But you haven't sourced the prices of any of the rest of the parts I listed.
The motor and battery are useless to you on their own.

 

[Gary]

Who's Rick?

 

[markus datgloi]

You did not state any requirements wrt the use of the bike: downhill, enduro, mountain, trail, fat... ?
Dengfu, in their store at aliexpress and on their own websites at dengfubike(s).com , has an e-bike with Shimano E8000 US $3499.0 |DENGFU New Electric bike frame E 04 with 250W 36V motor frameset for hot sell Complete electric Bikes|Bicycle Frame| - AliExpress but the cheapest full build will probably already be over your budget.
Do you want to buy a new frame, motor and parts ? Maybe used parts ?

 

[KeithR]

You're very luck! That's pretty rare to find them available. You'll also need the wiring harnesses of course.

Also, the ability to firmware flash/update the motor/battery/controller, and to commission the overall system.

Can't see that being possible on a home-build.

 

[Andrei_]

It seems that most of the DIY projects are based on a Bafang or Brose motor. Here are some thread(s) on that topic including where they sourced their frames. I don't know of a source for a Shimano-capable frame.

My Chinese frame and motor build. The CHEEB, V1.0 - Build Thread - EMTB Forums

Brose DIY build - EMTB Forums

Thank you, I will definitely need to check those out, a friend has a bafang motor and suggested it to me, so it's not excluded

 

[Andrei_]

Yes. Those prices are correct. But you haven't sourced the prices of any of the rest of the parts I listed.
The motor and battery are useless to you on their own.

I will do an extensive research tonight and see what I'll find, will certainly update shortly.

 

[Andrei_]

You did not state any requirements wrt the use of the bike: downhill, enduro, mountain, trail, fat... ?
Dengfu, in their store at aliexpress and on their own websites at dengfubike(s).com , has an e-bike with Shimano E8000 US $3499.0 |DENGFU New Electric bike frame E 04 with 250W 36V motor frameset for hot sell Complete electric Bikes|Bicycle Frame| - AliExpress but the cheapest full build will probably already be over your budget.
Do you want to buy a new frame, motor and parts ? Maybe used parts ?

Enduro, I would also consider used parts, mainly I want to find a good frame, because the other parts you can upgrade.

 

[Andrei_]

Also, the ability to firmware flash/update the motor/battery/controller, and to commission the overall system.

Can't see that being possible on a home-build.

Hmm haven't thought about that, are there manufacturers who makes that part easily to manipulate in such cases?

 

[Waynemarlow]

About the only engine that is totally open source firmware is the Tongseng TSDZ2 engine, it’s good for circa 700W‘s, has its detractors, mainly from those who are expecting more than the 300 Euro for the full kits costs. For the average rider in its modded form it’s far far better than you would expect with a full suite of modern displays or with the about to be released wireless version linking straight to the Garmins or Android phones or purely just a level shifting keypad.

From that base engine virtually any frame is feasible, either as a conventional analogue bike converted such as the Whyte T129’s and a host of others. The older early 27.5 bikes can get down to 17.5kgs complete with batteries such is the simplicity of the conversion.

 

[Andrei_]

The Shimano motor, cranks, battery, mounts, charger, display, wiring. sensors and controllers amount to more than 2000Euros alone
even specing budget wheels, finishing kit, brakes and drivetrain you'd have nothing left for a frame and fork.

Just buy an off the shelf bike and seal any problematic areas.

So I've looked up a little, I've found these on eBay

The problem is, I'm having a hard time finding a frame compatible with Shimano E8000 motor and 8035 Battery, I've found one a little limited as it's on 27.5 and with 2.35" tire limit and some other frame supporting 8000 but with a Darfon battery also limited on tire size and brakes.

But I'm not totally stuck to Shimano, I may look for Bafang as well.

 

[Gary]

So I've looked up a little, I've found these on eBay

You still haven't "looked up" the other items you need.
Please re-read my first reply.
Trust me, RRP for everything you require is over 2000 euros.
and you'll also more than likely also need the PC interface and shimano dealer software to set the motor up. The PC interface alone is almost 200euros.

 

[Andrei_]

You still haven't "looked up" the other items you need.
Please re-read my first reply.
Trust me, RRP for everything you require is over 2000 euros.
and you'll also more than likely also need the PC interface and shimano dealer software to set the motor up. The PC interface alone is almost 200euros.

Yeah, won't argue with you about that, but on top of that I can't even find variable frames...

 

[Waynemarlow]

Yeah, won't argue with you about that, but on top of that I can't even find variable frames...

Look on the Dengfu website, they do both full and hardtale, Aliexpress does a number of Ali frames suitable.

 

[R120]

I have looked into this multiple times, from a slightly different angle, in that I wanted to take the full E8000 system off of my hardtail and put it onto a FS frame.

Its easy enough to get the motor/battery parts etc but as @Gary has pointed out the prices dont stack up vs buying a complete bike.

The mains issue remains getting a decent frame, they just dont exist on the consumer direct marketplace, and those that do come up either as a parted out bike or similar don't offer great value and are often missing parts, and the ones you can get from China/Taiwan have rubbish geometry.

 

[Andrei_]

I have looked into this multiple times, from a slightly different angle, in that I wanted to take the full E8000 system off of my hardtail and put it onto a FS frame.

Its easy enough to get the motor/battery parts etc but as @Gary has pointed out the prices dont stack up vs buying a complete bike.

The mains issue remains getting a decent frame, they just dont exist on the consumer direct marketplace, and those that do come up either as a parted out bike or similar don't offer great value and are often missing parts, and the ones you can get from China/Taiwan have rubbish geometry.

I never knew it was this difficult to find a frame for an E Bike, I've looked for aluminium ones, for bafang as well and wasn't able to find what I'm looking for...

If this makes my life difficult I might consider one straight from a seller...

 

[Zimmerframe]

I never knew it was this difficult to find a frame for an E Bike, I've looked for aluminium ones, for bafang as well and wasn't able to find what I'm looking for...

If this makes my life difficult I might consider one straight from a seller...

Because Shimano don't sell the complete Steps system for individual install, there's not really a market for people to make frames.

I looked into it to change an E8000 hardtail to an FS bike. I'd guess these are the main sales - existing bike owners looking to upgrade/change/replace their frame.

If you really want to go the DIY build, your better off moving to an eco system which is more orientated around people doing home builds like the Dengfu E10 with a Bafang motor.

DIY eBike Builds

www.emtbforums.com

 

[markus datgloi]

There is a Shimano Dengfu E08 hidden under www.dengfubikes.com -> Menu Products -> E-bike frame -> E02 Shimano and then scroll to the bottom of the page where there is a "E08 Shimano" frame listed. The frame travel is just enough, uses an 'old' spoke magnet, angles look ok, stack and reach (19.5) are almost identical to my YT Decoy 29 (L). I issued an inquiry about costs including frame, motor and battery (Wh ?). An EP8 compatible frame would be better but the E10 with Bafang m600 is still the best option (for me).

Added: Dengfu sells only the frame.

AM FULL SUSPENSION E-BIKE FRAME E08 FOR SHIMANO MOTOR
Use for: 27.5er Plus/29er Suspension E-Bike
Frame: E08 SHIMANO
Feature: Thru Axle (148mm)
Material: full Toray carbon
Finish: UD Matt/Clear coating
Headset: Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" (OD 51/62mm/ ID 44/56mm)
Frame travel: 135-152mm
Available sizes: 15.5"/17.5"/19.5"/21"
Tire size: 27.5er*2.6"/2.8"/3.0"
Configuration: Shimano motor and Darfon battery

 

[Rosemount]

Who's Rick?

 

[Andrei_]

Because Shimano don't sell the complete Steps system for individual install, there's not really a market for people to make frames.

I looked into it to change an E8000 hardtail to an FS bike. I'd guess these are the main sales - existing bike owners looking to upgrade/change/replace their frame.

If you really want to go the DIY build, your better off moving to an eco system which is more orientated around people doing home builds like the Dengfu E10 with a Bafang motor.

DIY eBike Builds

www.emtbforums.com

Thank you for reply, I've documented myself further and it's not an easy one, need to wait until April/May for the parts to come... And I have nothing against bafang but at 3K+ I can't pick bafang over Shimano.

 

[Andrei_]

There is a Shimano Dengfu E08 hidden under www.dengfubikes.com -> Menu Products -> E-bike frame -> E02 Shimano and then scroll to the bottom of the page where there is a "E08 Shimano" frame listed. The frame travel is just enough, uses an 'old' spoke magnet, angles look ok, stack and reach (19.5) are almost identical to my YT Decoy 29 (L). I issued an inquiry about costs including frame, motor and battery (Wh ?). An EP8 compatible frame would be better but the E10 with Bafang m600 is still the best option (for me).

Added: Dengfu sells only the frame.

AM FULL SUSPENSION E-BIKE FRAME E08 FOR SHIMANO MOTOR
Use for: 27.5er Plus/29er Suspension E-Bike
Frame: E08 SHIMANO
Feature: Thru Axle (148mm)
Material: full Toray carbon
Finish: UD Matt/Clear coating
Headset: Tapered 1-1/8" to 1-1/2" (OD 51/62mm/ ID 44/56mm)
Frame travel: 135-152mm
Available sizes: 15.5"/17.5"/19.5"/21"
Tire size: 27.5er*2.6"/2.8"/3.0"
Configuration: Shimano motor and Darfon battery

View attachment 51721

I've looked on their official website and I couldn't find these models e08 e10, I wonder why they hide stuff, the problem with this frame is there's not a cup support, I can't pay hundreds or a thousand+ for a frame without a cup holder support.

 

[markus datgloi]

The E10 was on their websites as frame and full build bike (E-AM) but isn't listed anymore (out of stock ?). I have read somewhere on this forum that they will make the E10 again somewhere in march/april.

Another source for e-mtb Shimano frames: Custom Full Carbon E-Bike Frames,MTB E-Bike Manufacturers - Lightcarbon.com but with the same problem wrt getting Shimano parts, and a Darfon battery (E-bike Battery-eMTB-Battery Pack-DARFON).

 

[Andrei_]

The E10 was on their websites as frame and full build bike (E-AM) but isn't listed anymore (out of stock ?). I have read somewhere on this forum that they will make the E10 again somewhere in march/april.

Another source for e-mtb Shimano frames: Custom Full Carbon E-Bike Frames,MTB E-Bike Manufacturers - Lightcarbon.com but with the same problem wrt getting Shimano parts, and a Darfon battery (E-bike Battery-eMTB-Battery Pack-DARFON).

I was actually considering this one

This frame is not bad at all, but I don't know about the battery...

This model i cannot find on eBay, while the darfon 504w variant I found on ebay, any idea of these batteries, how reliable are they?