I Backed Out of New E-MTB Purchase

[Konanige]

One thing with the SL if it died and was non repairable as long as you could some bearings in the motor casing so it'll still pedal smoothly you could bin the battery and run it as a clockwork bike!!!

 

[B1rdie]

It's not really about planning financial issues in advance, it's about wanting to make the right choice initially & keep my toys running if possible in the future. If there's one thing I hate about the world today its the seemingly disposable society we live in. Conversely I love fixing things, no matter if it's electronics, cars, bikes, DIY etc.

So you can go with a bike with less propietary tech and state of the art parts, my choice for a shimano E8000 and easy to find online componentry is based on the same stakes you listed and I believe I can keep it running as today for the next five years. I Do already have a brand new motor at hand hoping that my own motor (heart) will outlast this two years old shimano I’m running.

 

[Konanige]

Plus the SL geometry is staying the same for 2021.

 

[Doomanic]

Why are you looking at 29ers if you want a snappy bike?

FWIW, at 2 years old and 2500 miles the Bosch battery in my Powerfly was at 94% according to the Bosch Service Centre that tested it. I was on my 4th motor by then though...

 

[KeithR]

Why are you looking at 29ers if you want a snappy bike?

My SL is the first 29 I've owned - and it's far and away the "snappiest" bike I've ever ridden, in direct comparison to my acoustic and electric 27.5s.

 

[Doomanic]

The Whyte is available as both a 27.5 and a 29er, if I was looking for snappy I'd choose the 27.5. My Rail is a 29er and is snappier than my Powerfly that was a 27.5, but the geo is 3 years further on and I often wonder how much better it would be as a 27.5. I rode my mate's Cube Action Team and it was snappier than my Rail.

What are your clockwork bikes?

 

[Sidepod]

Think tomorrow will be my 5th ride since this thread began! Life is passing you by.

 

[jimborae]

The Whyte is available as both a 27.5 and a 29er, if I was looking for snappy I'd choose the 27.5. My Rail is a 29er and is snappier than my Powerfly that was a 27.5, but the geo is 3 years further on and I often wonder how much better it would be as a 27.5. I rode my mate's Cube Action Team and it was snappier than my Rail.

What are your clockwork bikes?

Up until this year I rode an 09 Whyte E5, Dialled Bikes Prince Albert, Dialled Bikes Alpine & currently just left with a 2018 Orange Clockwork. Trouble is I'm getting old, overweight & arthritic at only 49yrs so I'm in a bit of a quandry, I still want to ride like I used to but find that I can't anymore. LBS recomended a 29er over 27.5 as my days of getting airbourne & hooning it around bike parks are becoming more of a distant memory, rather than a reality, so a they reckoned a 29er would more suit the local terrain and if I did want to liven things up a bit a 29er would still give me the option of going mullet. Seemed to make sense at the time.

 

[GMLS]

I think I need to try & find a Whyte stockist in Berkshire/Hampshire area that actually has demonstrators available and see if that can help me come to right decision.

I hired a Whyte at Bedgebury in Kent when I couldn't find a shop demo

 

[Doomanic]

Pedalabikeaway in the Forest of Dean have Whyte hire bikes and decent riding to try them on.

 

[Doomanic]

Ace in Monmouth have Whyte demo bikes too.

Demo - Ace Bicycles Monmouth

Ace Bicycles - Monmouth

acebicyclesmonmouth.co.uk

 

[steve_sordy]

I backed out of a threesome with Cheryl Cole and Sarah Harding.
Still regret the decision almost 20years later.

Life's too short for regrets ?

My wife was dead keen for a threesome. I was enthusiastic until I met him.

 

[Singletrackmind]

Just because you cant buy a replacement motor from chain reaction or wiggle like you might buy a new bottom bracket, doesnt mean that you wont be able to replace a broken motor in (say) 5 years time.


The motors may not be on open sale , but you'll be able to pay your local bosch/shimano/specialized dealer to fix it for you. Exactly the same as you would do if the motor expires when in warranty, except it will cost you.


There may also be a market in 'unofficial' reconditioned motors.

Batteries will just keep getting cheaper, So a bosch battery now is ~£650 - in a few years I'd expect them to be much cheaper (because the new bikes will be coming with 20mwh batteries or something).

I think you'll have no problem in keeping an old e bike going, but it probably does have a shorter life span than a normal bike (which could be still going in 50 years time)

Great points, articulated very well!

 

[Winger]

All these posts and only one touched on the untouchable subject...money, the beginning of this year my take on the Covid thing was ‘its all down hill’ i’m Into motorbikes and saw that going the same way swapped our 2 Lapierre’s for a Turbo Levo and a Whyte 150s, the Whyte got swapped that for a Cube 160 Stereo, been the best money we have ever spent, probably the only things that have keeper us sane.

Re these bikes being superseded, while all things electric are in their infancy, mountain bikes,cars,motorcycles, that’s the way it’s going to be for years to come till things level out, how long will that be???? More time time than we are prepared to wait, Jeeze it’s only money after all.

I know someone who has died of Covid now that is something to worry about.

 

[Rotwilder]

When I bought my Rotwild ebike I’m pretty sure it was the lightest(18K) powerful (Brose) bike on the market back in 2016. Only supplier in the UK was in Leicester, about 80 miles away. I was overweight, bad knee and 65 but reasonably fit due to hiking.
I’ve always been a road cyclist up until my mid 50’s, and just knew I’d enjoy an ebike rather than struggle on with my vintage but perfect road bike at my age! I’ve done rides I could never have done before, and 10000 miles on, I have had 3 motors; a complete drive chain and 3 sets of tyres; and now I have a battery on order For January. I’m 3 stone lighter which compensates for battery wearing out, and at 69 would probably be okay without electric assistance. Why spoil the fun? I just love my ebike. It’s like owning a poor mans Ferrari ?

 

[GDAS]

One thing that puts me off Whyte is the fact that their warranty is not transferable to a second owner. I quite fancy buying the E150 29er to replace my 3 year old Levo, it's got great geometry and I'm not that bothered about the relative difficulty of taking the battery out - but, suppose after 6 months or a year I regret buying it and fancy something else, what sort of resale value is it going to have if the warranty isn't transferable? I think I'll stick with Spesh, safe in the knowledge that if my bike ever goes wrong (and it will) I can simply take it to Berkshire Bikes (about 40 minutes drive for me) and have them fix it whilst I go for a coffee. I don't think any Bosch-motored bike dealers can do same day motor swap.

 

[d4voh]

It would be nice if they'd standardise something on these motors so you could upgrade to a newer motor of the same brand if needed. I assume this currently isn't the case.

 

[Gary]

you'd assume wrong

 

[Zimmerframe]

It would be nice if they'd standardise something on these motors so you could upgrade to a newer motor of the same brand if needed. I assume this currently isn't the case.

Unfortunately all the technology is so new that generally, when a new motor is released, they're not able to compromise themselves with the existing fittings. Maybe in the future .

 

[Rosemount]

I backed out of a threesome with Cheryl Cole and Sarah Harding.
Still regret the decision almost 20years later.

Life's too short for regrets ?

And then you woke up with your hand on the mast and the spray in your face . LOL .

 

[GrandPaBrogan]

Unfortunately all the technology is so new that generally, when a new motor is released, they're not able to compromise themselves with the existing fittings. Maybe in the future .

Not only that, manufacturers usually don’t allow direct-to-customer sales for new motors. I tried to get a Bosch motor sample for prototype testing years ago and was asked to fill-in a form stating your company’s worth plus past and projected future bike sales figures (there is a minimum). Passing that, you’re then required to submit engineering plans of your frame design for their evaluation. So motors aren’t likely going to be off-the-shelf items. After all they have a reputation and a badge to protect (which ironically keeps falling off their motors ).

Perhaps one way to future proof bikes - and to even do cross-brand motor upgrades is for an independent frame manufacturer to produce a frame with an intermediary bayonet member that works as the motor mount. If you want/need to change/upgrade a motor, you just change to the corresponding bayonet mount.

But I doubt new motors will be made available that way. There are exclusivity contracts to maintain with big frame companies. Plus the battery system is yet another layer of complication...

 

[jooles]

I’ve rarely had an opportunity to fully test a new bike. It’s tough to fully emulate the total environment you will use the bike in both now and in the future.

Over a few bikes I’ve regretted only one, which was a bike of the year that drew me to it. Not an Ebike.

The other issue is sheer volume of choice. Before all the online brands there we re only really a few so you went for something nearest what you ride and the biggest factor, fit.

With regard to Ebikes. I agree they are very expensive now. And not a light decision. Good used Car prices, but unable to as you say really test.

But, it’s like iPads, phones, computers. There will always be a “better” version out. so at some point you need to pull the trigger if that’s the direction you want to go in.

Perhaps ask yourself do you need an Ebike? Ebike s are great, addictive but I fear some buy them and don’t really need them. Just following a trend. To me the real gem hiding within Ebike s is their ability to open up technical, fun, challenging climbs. Making the climbing as hard as the DH. Some use the Ebike as a shuttle, literally get up fast, come down faster and repeat...

If you live somewhere pretty flat, with fire roads and gentle winding single track an Ebike may be overkill unless you physically will benefit from it.

In terms of longevity. This is still very unproven all I’d say is you won’t get 26;years out of the same battery and motor. For future proofing as mentioned above I’d go with a brand that will do just that. This brand isn’t just the frame manufacturer but also the motor. A Shimano EP8 has identical form factor to e8000, as an example. Spesh are now supporting a transferable warranty of 4 years from, I think 2019 bikes. Bike manufacturers are concious of this, I’m sure. when the huge bubble in demand abates, and it will, they will need to focus on this andthe customer even more.

Back to Ebikes. They are very different to your analog version. Heavier. Longer. Feel more damped. Often less poppy. But in the gnar feel much more planted, the weight being low down gives great cornering traction when you dial in. They are much faster than you think due to momentum meaning you need better brakes, better braking technique and better line choice as for sure you go in hotter. Jumping in dry is great they really travel. When soggier bog down a bit.

Like you I was nervous after many decades on a non Ebike. So started with a £2500 Ebike by diamondback but was an OEM frame that I knew ( mondraker kinematics) and good components...e8000, yari, XT etc. I did some choice upgrades that cost me net a few hundred quid and now love the bike. It’s opened new ventures, routes and plugs the winter crud so well.

Dont dive in however don’t expect to be able to fully test unless you go to a bike park that hires them. I see a lot of Spesh Levo SL used for sale. used Spesh are good as warranty goes with bike. Spesh kinematics imho have always been good. Far better than I am.

All I can say is when I’m out on my Enduro 29er ...which I do love...I also hanker for my Ebike as see so many climbs that I’d do on that but not on the E29 as I’d be pushing....

sorry a bit long winded but totally understand your hesitation....

 

[Zimmerframe]

Perhaps one way to future proof bikes - and to even do cross-brand motor upgrades is for an independent frame manufacturer to produce a frame with an intermediary bayonet member that works as the motor mount. If you want/need to change/upgrade a motor, you just change to the corresponding bayonet mount.

The Husqvarna looks like it's made a little like this ... ?!

 

[jimborae]

I’ve rarely had an opportunity to fully test a new bike. It’s tough to fully emulate the total environment you will use the bike in both now and in the future.....


..........sorry a bit long winded but totally understand your hesitation....

Long winded maybe, but certainly a worthy read. You raise some great points & ideas.

Having read all the replies and considering the type of riding round here (West Berkshire) and all the things I didn’t like about the Levo, maybe a Levo SL is something I should try out. The Specialized Concept store near me should have a loaner I would hope so I think I’ll go speak to them again.

I guess what I’m looking for in terms of ride is something that’s more like an analogue Trail bike but gives me a bit of a boost to take the pressure/torque load of my dodgy knee.

My longevity concerns still remain but as others have said life’s too short and the warranty on Specialized bikes seem pretty good.

 

[jooles]

That’s definitely a plan.

however don’t fully discount a “full fat” Ebike. They actually start to feel a lot lighter than they actually are and you can fine tune power output to overcome weight etc.

ive Had it on authority that the SL lower output motor is pretty bomber...very few if any issues. The Brose has been a little err..random..

good luck with the hunt. Do take time. However Spesh are imho a super brand and I’ve had great support in past from them. They would be top of my list for next Ebike...

 

[Gary]

Super heavy bikes actually NEVER feel any lighter than they are. It's a complete myth. If you begin to think they do you simply don't ride normal bikes enough anymore.
If you want a light Emtb there are options out there but a full power motor AND large battery aren't in that mix at all.

I guess what I’m looking for in terms of ride is something that’s more like an analogue Trail bike but gives me a bit of a boost to take the pressure/torque load of my dodgy knee.

Be careful with that train of thought. A motor isn't necessarily going to help your dodgy knee.
I started getting daily almost debilitating knee pain from riding my Emtb too much (commuting). I've ended up switching back to my road bike to commute and riding my normal mtbs way more than the Emtb re-building muscle strength/stability lost from the reduced exercise levels/duration of an Ebike.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Super heavy bikes actually NEVER feel any lighter than they are. It's a complete myth.

This isn't quite true .. I once had to stop to move several hundred kilo's of fallen tree off a trail and my Kenevo definitely FELT lighter than it had before..

 

[jimborae]

I have my Orange hard tail that I use for commuting. And it seems the Levo SL range isn’t too bad due to a low torque motor so a big battery may not be a requirement.

 

[Velociraptor]

That is the one huge downside to eMTB right now. If you want a newer better motor you usually have to buy a new bike and the bikes are expensive. Exactly my case. I have to admit I jumped into the eMTB fray pretty clueless and bought a Santa Cruz Heckler. Nice bike but the Shimano E8000 is pretty old tech and the 500wh battery is too small for my weight and use. The Heckler is OK and great as a mullet. I just ordered a Santa Cruz Bullit but this time with my eyes open. Shimano E8 motor and 630wh battery. Hopefully that will be good for awhile. I saw a youtube video speculating on increased battery capacity and 800wh looks like it for the next few years. It seems to me that eMTB advancements will be more incremental now. Probably the push will be to get lighter bikes but with good power and range. Not sure how well these lighter lower power bikes will do. I saw a lot of the Specialized ones for sale used. Assuming I really like the Bullit I plan to keep it long term and repair/replace the motor as needed. I will probably still need and extra battery for mega-rides. Just more money!

 

[Gary]

That is the one huge downside to eMTB right now. If you want a newer better motor you usually have to buy a new bike and the bikes are expensive.

How is that any different than the hordes of folk who aspire to owning "better" normal mtbs?

all the current popular motors are very good. (when working) just like there are very few bad normal mtbs anymore.

point in question:

Nice bike but the Shimano E8000 is pretty old tech and the 500wh battery is too small for my weight and use

This is actually pretty hilarious