Hub drive Vs mid drive

[fenwick458]

Ok this is not strictly EMTB, but I'm looking for a bike for my mum, one of the contenders is the Orbea Vibe H30. everything I can see about it looks ideal, only thing is it uses a rear hub drive system, not a mid drive.
How do they compare?

 

[apac]

There are two types of hubbies, direct drive and geared. Geared are more like mid drives in construction... they have moving planetary nylon gears inside and a clutch which make them more prone to wearing out or breaking. They are however lighter than the direct drive equivalent by a bit. Direct drive have no moving pets inside, they are very long lasting and simpler in construction. It's just an electromagnet stator as the core which has the axle on on it, and then the outer part of the hub which has permanent magnets going around the inner shell.

Middrive or hub will be fine For your mum if it's just for commuting and road use. If it's for doing black grade trails at bike park Wales the middrive keeps the bike more balanced as th motor is 'mid' in the bike. A hub is either on the front or back wheel so unbalances the bike.

once the bike is moving you cannot feel the hub in either wheel.

 

[apac]

It looks like a nice bike.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Direct drive have no moving pets inside,

Recent computer enhanced x-ray of a geared hub motor for reference :

 

[apac]

Recent computer enhanced x-ray of a geared hub motor for reference :

View attachment 55268

dooh! Haah!

 

[Nicho]

Recent computer enhanced x-ray of a geared hub motor for reference :

View attachment 55268

That's exactly what came into my head when I read his post.
It would probably run for longer than a Brose!

 

[Barbara_Reed]

Love the pet! If your mum fixes her own flat tyres either get her a mid drive or kevlar tyres. I've got one of those sausage shaped tubes for my hub drive folder, but if you don't want to take the wheel off you will have to cut the existing tube to use it. Or buy her enough tools to remove the rear wheel and either teach her to do that or suggest she practices her "now what do I do" act.

 

[steve_sordy]

Recent computer enhanced x-ray of a geared hub motor for reference :

View attachment 55268

That is the name of my next hamster, Brose!

 

[steve_sordy]

Love the pet! If your mum fixes her own flat tyres either get her a mid drive or kevlar tyres. I've got one of those sausage shaped tubes for my hub drive folder, but if you don't want to take the wheel off you will have to cut the existing tube to use it. Or buy her enough tools to remove the rear wheel and either teach her to do that or suggest she practices her "now what do I do" act.

Oh c'mon! There is no way Mum will be fixing flats if she has a child that can do it for her.

 

[Zimmerframe]

That is the name of my next hamster, Brose!

You're not really setting it on the road to an expected long lifespan !!

 

[steve_sordy]

You're not really setting it on the road to an expected long lifespan !!

I fully expect that it will last longer than a real Brose.

 

[fenwick458]

Love the pet! If your mum fixes her own flat tyres either get her a mid drive or kevlar tyres. I've got one of those sausage shaped tubes for my hub drive folder, but if you don't want to take the wheel off you will have to cut the existing tube to use it. Or buy her enough tools to remove the rear wheel and either teach her to do that or suggest she practices her "now what do I do" act.

I don't understand what you mean, can you clarify please?
is it not easy to remove a hub driven wheel?

 

[apac]

I don't understand what you mean, can you clarify please?
is it not easy to remove a hub driven wheel?

Its no different from a normal bike. it can be more of a pain if the electrical cable coming out of the hub cannot be disconnected. But this should have been thought about by the design and there Should be a plug somewhere along the main cable so you can separate the wheel from the bike without the umbilical cord still attached. I hope that make sense.?

 

[TrailBoB]

No pets were harmed in the making of this post??

 

[fenwick458]

Its no different from a normal bike. it can be more of a pain if the electrical cable coming out of the hub cannot be disconnected. But this should have been thought about by the design and there Should be a plug somewhere along the main cable so you can separate the wheel from the bike without the umbilical cord still attached. I hope that make sense.?

yeah thanks I actually googled it, it's not as simple as a QR but not rocket science either. Was just ab bit confused about the sausage shaped tube and the drive folder and cutting tubes

Ive been reading up on the Ebikemotion X35 specifically, seems ok. Yeah It's not as good as a mid drive, but the other bikes we are comparing are 500wh mid drives that weigh twice as much and cost more Scott lady bike
and I have found an even better bike I think the Ribble CGR AL e Step through
for 1-2 hour rides on gravel/tarmac I think it's perfect, and It seems to have a way better spec

 

[Barbara_Reed]

Re sausage shaped tubes... They are a cunning device to enable you to change a tube without removing the wheel. Instead of being circular they are straight, sealed at each end, and when you fit them the ends meet. Obviously if you don't remove the wheel (which avoids having to disconnect the electrics and the brakes) you will have to cut the old tube (assuming it's a normal one) to get it off. I have a folder which is handy to put in a car when going on holiday, but a pain to remove the rear wheel as the wiring is well hidden. Newer hub drives may well be more accessible. That one isn't, and twenty minutes less spent by the roadside sounds like a good plan to me.
Sorry if I wasn't clear.
You do realise that when you give a bike to most mothers you are also giving them the ongoing maintenance, don't you? At least that seemed to be how it worked in our family .

 

[Barbara_Reed]

Sorry can't see how to edit my post, just wanted to add
Folder=folding bike.
That Ribble bike looks really nice. Trying to convince myself I already have too many bikes.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Sorry can't see how to edit my post,

On a computer browser, you should see "Edit" below you post, you can click on that, make changes and then click save.

On a phone, just under your post you should see three tiny dots and a down arrow - click on that and the edit option is there.

 

[fenwick458]

Sorry can't see how to edit my post, just wanted to add
Folder=folding bike.
That Ribble bike looks really nice. Trying to convince myself I already have too many bikes.

Ah I understand now thanks for clariflying.
I will be doing the ongoing maintenance for her but things like changing a tube I'll just have to teach her as I won't be able to do that. The Ribble comes standard with tubeless wheels & tyres (good ones too)another reason to go for that.
But I'm all for trying to get something thats easy to use and maintain, which is why I'm trying to find her a decent one. a family friend is offering to convert one of her old bikes to electric using a conversion kit, but I actually considered this for a while for one of my bikes last year, but after joining a forum where they discuss the conversions I decided that they are not a good idea for someone who isn't mechanically and electrically minded. there was just so many posts about faults, motors sticking on and sensor faults it was just constant faults and solutions and tinkering and Heath Robinson bodges. I'm an electrician and have ridden bikes all my life and it put me off them, so for someone less skilled I think it'd be a recipe for disaster

 

[apac]

The Ribble step through looks like it has a 7amp hour battery which is quite small, but keeps the bike light. 7ah should get your mum at least 15 miles as a guesstimate With very little rider I put.

 

[fenwick458]

The Ribble step through looks like it has a 7amp hour battery which is quite small, but keeps the bike light. 7ah should get your mum at least 15 miles as a guesstimate With very little rider I put.

I thought the universal standard for measuring battery capacities was Wh!
I know, 250wh is basically half a battery, but she has ridden 1 hour rides for a good few years now and I can't see that changing, just doesn't like going up hills, thats where the ebike comes in!

 

[Barbara_Reed]

I like that bike. If I adopted you would you get one for me?
That's probably plenty enough battery for a nice light bike, I think your mother would be delighted.

 

[Neeko DeVinchi]

I feel that there are misconceptions when comparing hub motors to mid drive.
In the beginning, the argument revolved around 'the ease of removing a qr/bolt through wheel in case you get a puncture'. Then the argument shifted to torque but were now seeing emtb's which don't offer as much and more importantly, a market for these types of emtb's. Then the argument shifted to weight distribution as the hub motor can weight which ever wheel compared to a standard freehub.

My first ever ebike (which till this day is advertised as an emtb) was a NCM Moscow + 29. Hand on heart, it's my oldest ebike and still works and has never given me problems when in use and the bike has been upgraded with an air fork, better tyres and a dropper.

Granted, I transitioned to mid drive but I never thought about selling the Moscow as I did have some pretty decent adventures on it.

Needless to say, I'm not one to believe the short comings of hub motors just like I don't believe that full suspension is better than a hardtail. They're just different and both have their strengths and weaknesses.

If it helps, I can go into finer detail as I do have experience with Hub motors from Bafang and Das-kit which I can compare to mid drive motors like brose, bafang and Bosch.