How to break the bead off of the rim?

[Expidia]

Update II: I attempted it myself this afternoon to swap back to the OEM tires. I got the bead to pop off by hand probably because the other tires were only converted to tubeless just a few days ago. Got both tires back on and poured in 150 ml of Mucoff sealant inside tire before popping the final section of tire onto the rim. Problem now is I can't get the tires to seal. My new Cannondale pump is to weak to seal the beads. A 16 gm co2 cartridge was too weak also. I’ll Youtube around for some ideas for tips to get enough air into them to seal. I have a 100 an Electric 100 psi pancake compressor, but even with this presta adapter I can’t get the center post on the compressor wand to push in over the presta valve to release air. My LBS who I'm sure uses a big blast of air does not open till Tues.

 

[jonmat]

Presta valves are a legacy from narrow rim road bike wheels. Why we have to put up with this on MTB’s is beyond my comprehension. This has been a great thread with lots of useful information. Thank you all.

 

[Swiss Roll]

Update II: I attempted it myself this afternoon to swap back to the OEM tires. I got the bead to pop off by hand probably because the other tires were only converted to tubeless only a few days ago. Got both tires back on and poured in 150 ml of Mucoff sealant inside tire before popping the final section of tire onto the rim. Problem now is I cant get the tires to seal. My new Cannondale pump is to weak to seal the beads. A co2 cartridge was too weak also. I’ll youtube around for some ideas for tips to get enough air into them to seal. I have a 100 an Electric 100 psi pancake compressor but even with this presta adapter I can’t get the center post on the compressor wand to push in over the presta valve to release air. My LBS who Im sure uses a big blast of air does not open till Tues.

View attachment 94251

View attachment 94252

View attachment 94253

I had this problem, with a park tools pump, I live just above a petrol station, so I went down, and blasted them on there, with the adapter you have. I sprayed some bike cleaner onto the tire, to help it slip in, it took a few attempts.
The damn adapter kept on screwing the valve core out though, had to screw the cores up really tight, and put the adapter on to the absolute minimum.
My valve was leaking, so I held the wheel on its side, and sloshed the sealant around near the valve. I had to to this a few times over a couple of days, til it finally sealed properly.

 

[Swiss Roll]

Presta valves are a legacy from narrow rim road bike wheels. Why we have to put up with this on MTB’s is beyond my comprehension. This has been a great thread with lots of useful information. Thank you all.

I fucking hate them too, I always bend the ends, with the dumb clipon pump head. Isn't there a better solution than the clipon thing?

 

[Expidia]

Presta valves are a legacy from narrow rim road bike wheels. Why we have to put up with this on MTB’s is beyond my comprehension. This has been a great thread with lots of useful information. Thank you all.

Yes I agree. I don't know what the point is of using them. They are a pain in the ass IMO.

 

[Expidia]

When I worked in a gas station/auto repair shop . . . on the tire machine I would wrap the thin hose around the middle of the tire before inflating and seating the beads. Yo inflated the hose first and it squeezed the tire in the middle and both sides would press against the rim as your were filling the tire with air. I wonder if they make similar for narrow ETMB tires? When I watch a Youtube ETMB tire installation vid they use a jig that allows them to spin the wheel while a high pressure air hose is attached to the valve pumping air in and then they can coax the beads to seat while using two hands.

 

[MickS]

Hey @Expidia, as far as I understand you are trying to seat the tyre bead with the presta valve core installed? If yes, then try with the valve core removed. I always do it like that I had success even with non-tubeless, wire bead tyres used as tubeless. I don't have air compressor, just the cheap floor pump similar to yours does the job. Sometimes the tyre needs some "massage" in order to put the bead as close to the edge of the rim as possible. After that, fast pumping, and the tyre bead is seated. Then I slowly let the air out (just disconnecting will obviously deflate the tyre very fast, which can lead to releasing the bead). Having the tyre deflated (and still without the valve core) I put the sealant through the valve stem, then install the valve core and inflate again.

I know you already have the sealant in the tyres, but maybe (if you will be careful) you will be able to salvage it (or at least most of it).

 

[Expidia]

Hi Expedis
Have you thought of fitting, or getting fitted, foam inserts? I believe Rimpact are good but there are others and they may get you home if you are alone and deflated on the trail!

I learned that I can break a bead myself now, so on the trail . . . all I have to do is break one side and put a spare tube inside. Now that I know the LBS just puts a lot of muscle into breaking the bead, I finally was able to do it myself today. My rims are super light weight and I was afraid if I tried other methods I could damage them.

 

[Expidia]

Hey @Expidia, as far as I understand you are trying to seat the tyre bead with the presta valve core installed? If yes, then try with the valve core removed. I always do it like that I had success even with non-tubeless, wire bead tyres used as tubeless. I don't have air compressor, just the cheap floor pump similar to yours does the job. Sometimes the tyre needs some "massage" in order to put the bead as close to the edge of the rim as possible. After that, fast pumping, and the tyre bead is seated. Then I slowly let the air out (just disconnecting will obviously deflate the tyre very fast, which can lead to releasing the bead). Having the tyre deflated (and still without the valve core) I put the sealant through the valve stem, then install the valve core and inflate again.

I know you already have the sealant in the tyres, but maybe (if you will be careful) you will be able to salvage it (or at least most of it).

I thought of removing the Presta core, but since the LBS just installed these tubeless versions I did not want to attack it with a pliers and damage it. A Park Tool VC-1 arrived today.But even the package says not all Presta valves are removable. The sealant does not slosh out as I was trying to massage the side walls while pumping with my Cannondale floor pump. I need 4 hands!

 

[Expidia]

Found this vid:

 

[Expidia]

Or maybe one of these:

 

[Expidia]

Ya, removing Presta valve didn't help. It's the design of the tires. The side walls are so thin as soon as I massage one side partially onto the inner rim shoulder the other side pulls off. I'll have to take the wheels to my LBS when they open on Tues and have them use an air blast to pop them seated.

 

[KnollyBro]

Ya, removing Presta valve didn't help. It's the design of the tires. The side walls are so thin as soon as I massage one side partially onto the inner rim shoulder the other side pulls off. I'll have to take the wheels to my LBS when they open on Tues and have them use an air blast to pop them seated.

Next time you want to spend money, buy some better valve stems. The ones shown below use a poppet valve instead of those old fashioned presta valve. These stems allow for a higher volume of air to get in per pump stroke.

Reserve Wheels Fillmore Tubeless Valves | Jenson USA

 

[Expidia]

Next time you want to spend money, buy some better valve stems. The ones shown below use a poppet valve instead of those old fashioned presta valve. These stems allow for a higher volume of air to get in per pump stroke.

View attachment 94264

Reserve Wheels Fillmore Tubeless Valves | Jenson USA

Wow $50 bucks a set. Their description is exactly my issue. I don't plan to be removing the tires all that often after I get these seated. 3 times the air flow from these poppets is very good. I bet they come down in price as soon as the Chinese copy them.

 

[Expidia]

I had this problem, with a park tools pump, I live just above a petrol station, so I went down, and blasted them on there, with the adapter you have. I sprayed some bike cleaner onto the tire, to help it slip in, it took a few attempts.
The damn adapter kept on screwing the valve core out though, had to screw the cores up really tight, and put the adapter on to the absolute minimum.
My valve was leaking, so I held the wheel on its side, and sloshed the sealant around near the valve. I had to to this a few times over a couple of days, til it finally sealed properly.

I would need a blast with at least 160 psi. My compressor on does 100 psi. I don't know how how petrol stations compressors go. That adapter I had screwed onto the Presta valve, but the tip of the valve does not raise inside the adapter enough to press against the wand's actuator of the petrol station to release the air. Same thing for my electric compressor as the wand is the same. Maybe the adapter has to be screwed on more so the tip can press the air release?

 

[Cb750stu]

Or maybe one of these:

View attachment 94256

I've got one of these , always seats the bead first time

 

[Expidia]

I've got one of these , always seats the bead first time

Thanks, I already posted that in #45 above. It looked like a good idea but too many 1,2,3 star reviews that say it didn't work for them. Canister too small to hold enough volume of air. Maybe works better for narrow road tires. But I'll ask my LBS's opinion when I bring him my two mounted tires for him to seat with his shops stronger compressor.

 

[Glenn]

It's too late now you've gone Tubeless but as previously stated I prefer inserts in my tyres.
I have Tannus Tyre Armour inserts in my tyres.
These have the double effect of preventing punctures and also if you do get a catastrophic rip in your tyre you can still ride home or back to the van without damaging your rims.
I know some people don't like them but i swear by them.

 

[Expidia]

It's too late now you've gone Tubeless but as previously stated I prefer inserts in my tyres.
I have Tannus Tyre Armour inserts in my tyres.
These have the double effect of preventing punctures and also if you do get a catastrophic rip in your tyre you can still ride home or back to the van without damaging your rims.
I know some people don't like them but i swear by them.

I’ve watched Youtubes on inserts. Inserts make me nervous. If they were that good why wouldn’t the bike manufacturers offer them aside from the added cost of a cheap piece of foam. I would think tubeless tires were designed to run with nothing inside other than air. Why don’t all auto tires run with inserts? All though I do have run flat tires on my SUV and they probably stuff them with foam.

 

[Binhill1]

I’ve watched Youtubes on inserts. Inserts make me nervous. If they were that good why wouldn’t the bike manufacturers offer them aside from the added cost of a cheap piece of foam. I would think tubeless tires were designed to run with nothing inside other than air. Why don’t all auto tires run with inserts? All though I do have run flat tires on my SUV and they probably stuff them with foam.

Yes i agree i really dont know what people expect from a tire and bike . Or is everyone doing mega extreme rock gardens , and ploughing through everything and thinking its a 7 grand Ebike it will be ok .

 

[Expidia]

Update: after I switched back to the OEM Trek tires and brought the tires on the wheels to have my LBS inflate them using his high volume air compressor. I took out the sealant as I did not want to splash him as he set the beads. He charged me $20 and added sealant too. But when I got home the front was losing air. He did say to spin the wheel horizontally for 20 min to allow the sealant to circulate and seal the system. And he said to ride it which is even better. Went home again and that didn't work as it was still oozing sealant in two places. Couldn't ride it as it was losing air too fast. Back again to the LBS this time with the bike and I said if you can't stop it form leaking just put the tubes back. When I go back to pick it up when it's ready, this will be 8 legs back an forth to the LBS just for converting the tires to tubeless. I only live 3 miles away, but this going tubeless debacle SUCKS!

Of note, when I watched him popping the beads one tire he was having trouble getting it to pop so he pulled out the strap and circled the center of the tire then snugged it up to push out the beads to the rim. I knew it! Above in another post I had said I used to use a strap to pop auto tire beads when I worked in a gas station as a kid ans wondered why they don't make them for bike tires.

Well, they do and I just ordered one off Amazon.

Now that the humidity has finally broken in my area and I don't want to put miles on the two ebikes I'm selling . . . I'm going to pump up tires and take a ride today on my accoustic Trek bike while I'm waiting for the call that my LBS finished my Powerfly ebike. I'm going back to "old school" this afternoon

I sure learned a lot from this thread and watching YouTubes. Thanks to all that responded. One thing I did not realize is I thought the sealant is used to seal up small punctures. But it is also used for sealing the bead. Hence the reason the LBS spins the wheel horizontally for a few minutes after popping the beads in place.

* I just ordered this bead strap:

 

[Expidia]

Damn, yet another update: LBS called and said they can't get the small leaks to stop because this is a wire bead tire.
So they put the tubes back in.
They recommended if I want to still go tubeless to buy from them Goodyear Connector S4 Ultimate at $79.98 each as these were the closest he came up with to the tread pattern I'm looking for. But now I see 50 mm is too small for my liking in width as I'm running 2.4 inches now. 2.25 inches then maybe.

I called Trek C/S as I thought it strange that Trek would sell a $6,200 Emtb with tubeless ready rims yet the Bontrager LT4 Expert tires it came with were not tubeless compatible? C/S rep said the bike shop was correct as they are not tubeless compatible

I'm in no rush, so when these wear out, I'll upgrade the tires to tubeless ones. Or if I get a few flats, I'll change to tubeless earlier.

Anyone have an experience with these Goodyear Connectors? A check on Amazon they are going for $68 or $11 less each than the LBS. I'm fine with throwing support to my LBS and even better if they cut me some slack on the install fee, if I buy them from their shop.

 

[mcboab]

Damn, yet another update: LBS called and said they can't get the small leaks to stop because this is a wire bead tire.
So they put the tubes back in.
They recommended if I want to still go tubeless to buy from them Goodyear Connector S4 Ultimate at $79.98 each as these were the closest he came up with to the tread pattern I'm looking for. But now I see 50 mm is too small for my liking in width as I'm running 2.4 inches now. 2.25 inches then maybe.

I called Trek C/S as I thought it strange that Trek would sell a $6,200 Emtb with tubeless ready rims yet the Bontrager LT4 Expert tires it came with were not tubeless compatible? C/S rep said the bike shop was correct as they are not tubeless compatible

I'm in no rush, so when these wear out, I'll upgrade the tires to tubeless ones. Or if I get a few flats, I'll change to tubeless earlier.

Anyone have an experience with these Goodyear Connectors? A check on Amazon they are going for $68 or $11 less each than the LBS. I'm fine with throwing support to my LBS and even better if they cut me some slack on the install fee, if I buy them from their shop.

You're probably (maybe) better off starting a new thread on tyres but you'll need to be clear on the intended use cases local Trail? conditions your planning on riding on. As an aside those Connectors are gravel tyres. not MTB ones hence the narrow fitting. PS be prepared for differing opinions and ultimately you need to understand the tyres intended use (often listed on the manufactures web site / industry reviews) and map that to your intended use case.

 

[Expidia]

You're probably (maybe) better off starting a new thread on tyres but you'll need to be clear on the intended use cases local Trail? conditions your planning on riding on. As an aside those Connectors are gravel tyres. not MTB ones hence the narrow fitting. PS be prepared for differing opinions and ultimately you need to understand the tyres intended use (often listed on the manufactures web site / industry reviews) and map that to your intended use case.

Thanks for your response. Yes, after I posted the above I did notice they were a gravel style. When I googled those tires the Goodyear linked pics were all the same shot of the tread pattern and were really dark and hard to see the center line of the tire. 50 mm wide are too narrow for me anyway. Rob the site owner has a good Youtube vid on emtb tire comparisons. I really don’t know what I need as I’m still too new to emtb’ing and need more experience on single tracks before I have a better idea. The shop’s suggestion was only basing their recommendation on feedback from me. If I were to go tubeless and since the OEM tires were not tubeless compatible . . . since they had the tires apart already they were trying to get a decision from me to put it back together with new tubeless tires. I said to put the tubes back in and I’ll make a decision later on after these wear out or if I’m getting too many flats. I know I don’t want to go knobbier than what is on there now and I’m not up for spending $80 per tire plus installation. Luckily, the first tires I installed that were way off base I was able to wash off the sealant (water soluble) and return to Amazon. And they were 1/2 the price! From the bike store there are no returns and upwards of $300 with installation down the drain (I’ve already flushed $160 away with my first round of tubeless in labor with the LBS) if they don’t work out. I’ve learned emtb (as you pointed out) are certainly subjective to each riders style and intended use from watching vids. And I don’t have a style yet or know my use yet