How much difference does "better" suspension actually make?

[Defmech]

My bike, Whyte e-160s, came with fairly basic suspension. A Zeb with Charger R Damper and a RockShox Deluxe Select+. If I was to upgrade both to something "better" what would I actually notice? I'm by no means an advanced rider, intermediate at best, so not sure what improvements would bring. I've also not ridden any bike with better components either. I've watched a few YouTube vids on the subject but bit baffled by LS, HS compression and rebound etc. Doubt I'd be playing with these once set up. I'm more of a set it and forget it kinda person. Would be interested in the opinion of anyone who's gone from a basic fork/shock to an upgraded one.

Cheers!

 

[RustyIron]

I don't know if I'd call your existing setup "basic." It's not terrible. Maybe "intermediate level" would be more accurate. Earlier this year I upgraded my two year old "intermediate" Rockshox suspension, to their 2023 top-shelf components. There are distinct differences, but not so much that you'd confuse me with Brett Rheeder.

The biggest difference is when slamming the bike down hard. It just seems to feel more plush on those landings. It's really cool to feel the improvement. When ripping down really chunky rock gardens, the suspension eats up the harshness better than before. On flow, the tires stay planted a little better, to the point where unexpected traction loss is more controllable.

That's all stuff that you'd expect to hear from a fanboy or a magazine ad. Sorry, but that's my impression. The other thing that I didn't expect was that the suspension is doing all these wondrous things will riding higher in the travel. It feels smoother and better controlled, but not as much travel is being used. With the older suspension, there was some harshness, and I'd sometimes bottom out. With these newfangled components, I VERY rarely blow through all the travel. On most rides I come close, but there's always a few millimeters left.

So although new parts cost a ton of money, it wasn't a waste of money. So while you say you're an intermediate rider, perhaps having better components will help you when things get dicey. And no matter what level rider you are, there will be times when things get dicey.

 

[Lee c]

So I have just upgraded from the zeb charger r to a new 2023 zeb ultimate, and yea all of the above are noticeable differences however to get there I had to dial it in with changes to the rebound and lsc and hsc, personally if that isn’t something your that familiar with and would prefer the “least messing” I would stick with charger r zeb you have , the differences for you personally probably would not be night and day and the charger 3 would require more fiddling although not difficult to do, the new zeb does ride higher in its travel and is nice and smooth but the zeb you have is not a bad fork, also for me I ride with low pressures and 50 psi because I’m light but that means compression controls are definitely handy to stop break dive etc

 

[Defmech]

not so much that you'd confuse me with Brett Rheeder

Isn't he on Ohlins? But seriously thanks for the input.

Do you find yourself tinkering with the rebound/compression settings much or was it more of a get it dialled in then leave it.?

 

[RustyIron]

Do you find yourself tinkering with the rebound/compression settings much or was it more of a get it dialled in then leave it.?

I'm a weirdo in that I maintain spreadsheets for each bike. Maintenance and adjustments are all well documented. From Day 1, suspension adjustments are recorded. As ride and get a feel, future adjustments are also recorded. As you can imagine, initially there is a lot of experimentation. As I get a better feel, and everything dialed to where I want it, adjustments are less frequent. I try to do several rides for each adjustment, just to be certain of how things are performing. Usually it takes close to two months before I get things exact. After that, it's very rare that I change anything.

 

[steve_sordy]

I'm a weirdo in that I maintain spreadsheets for each bike. Maintenance and adjustments are all well documented. From Day 1, suspension adjustments are recorded. As ride and get a feel, future adjustments are also recorded. As you can imagine, initially there is a lot of experimentation. As I get a better feel, and everything dialed to where I want it, adjustments are less frequent. I try to do several rides for each adjustment, just to be certain of how things are performing. Usually it takes close to two months before I get things exact. After that, it's very rare that I change anything.

You are not a weirdo!

 

[steve_sordy]

@Defmech If you are unsure, the best thing would be to wait until you observe that something could be better and you know what it is. Don't buy in hope!
I believe in getting the best out of the new bike I have just bought before spending any money on it. I am excepting things like pedals, grips and saddle because I already know what I want. If the saddle is one that I have not come across before and is the right width I'll give it a go, but unless it is perfect it will be replaced and sold.

That leaves tyres and suspension. Tyres might take a while, or my like/dislike can be borne during the first ride. Suspension always takes longer. I have found the following guide to be excellent. Have a read through and follow what it says, it's really good. It contains more information than you may need currently.

Bikerumor Suspension Setup Series: Full Series PDF - Free Download!

The above link is also posted as a sticky in, I think, "suspension tuning tips"

 

[irie]

The most noticeable improvement I made to my bike was upgrading the rear suspension from the RockShox Deluxe Select+ to Ohlins TTX22m.2 coil shock. This not only improved the rear suspension, it also improved the performance of the forks. Why? Because this reduced 'pitching' of the bike which in turn allowed the front suspension, forks, to work more efficiently.

 

[Plummet]

I have learnt over the years that the best suspension is worth the money for me. I cant set the mid range suspension up to how I want. But I am a suspension whisperer. If it is slightly out from how I like it, I can feel it.

I have mates that just jump on bikes and ride them and cant tell if the suspension is good or bad.

So... you may or may no feel the difference.

Side note. Why buy the low end model with average suspension, then be surprised that the suspension is average and go about upgrading? that will cost you more than just buying the model with the good suspension in the first place.

 

[Defmech]

Why buy the low end model with average suspension, then be surprised that the suspension is average and go about upgrading? that will cost you more than just buying the model with the good suspension in the first place.

At the time I didn’t consider £5600 to be low end. I’m 18 months and 5500km in on this bike. Been thinking about new new shock at least as my current one is showing signs of wear. If there is a next bike for me then I’ll be looking further up the spec charts.

 

[dobbyhasfriends]

My bike, Whyte e-160s, came with fairly basic suspension. A Zeb with Charger R Damper and a RockShox Deluxe Select+. If I was to upgrade both to something "better" what would I actually notice? I'm by no means an advanced rider, intermediate at best, so not sure what improvements would bring. I've also not ridden any bike with better components either. I've watched a few YouTube vids on the subject but bit baffled by LS, HS compression and rebound etc. Doubt I'd be playing with these once set up. I'm more of a set it and forget it kinda person. Would be interested in the opinion of anyone who's gone from a basic fork/shock to an upgraded one.

Cheers!

depends what sort of stuff you ride. if you are doing long all mountain rides all the time, probably not, if you are bikeparking and taking on drops and jumps, its worth it.
I have a lyrik select+ that I upgraded air spring and damper to ultimate, its a far, far better fork in every way. I upgraded a similar rear shock to what you have and its an improvement but the fork was more of a drastic change

 

[Bones]

Well my bike has fox factory 38s on it and it rides crap!
Mainly due to them being faulty. After 3 returns and all the internals replaced, my first ride today was still crap.
I'm hoping because they need adjusting to suit my riding ability.
So what I'm saying is, if you don't like the idea of playing with the knobs and fine tuning then stick with what you have and save your money for important things like beer,

 

[#lazy]

Imo unless you’re racing the suspension is good if setup properly for you . I got mates who’ve spent tones on the best stuff and are no better !

 

[kipperkendall]

I was in the same situation as you recently. I just trail ride so not on the rough stuff that much. But I seemed to feel every bump, which made it less fun.

Put a post up on here, took advice to get my Fox forks upgraded and shock services and turned. Now is excellent!

By that I mean I don’t notice the suspension as it’s so much smoother and predictable. No sudden surprises.

Full Factory Suspension in Bradford On Avon are worth talking to.

 

[Goat]

If you don't have a good grasp of LSC, HSC, rebound etc maybe try renting a shockwiz. That should help you fine tune your current setup and the process might help you understand the tuning controls. Your current suspension is very capable when properly set up!

 

[ilostmypassword]

Don't under estimate tyre pressures. If I run at 18- 20PSI with tyre inserts and big tyres the bike is a dream. Makes sense given it's the first contact to the terrain! To firm you literally ping off stuff!

I'm sure the more expensive the suspension is the better the performance- but yeah I find my tyre pressures make the biggest difference in performance for me.

 

[Pazman]

I'm new to MTB in December 2022 and I'm a heavy rider. 114kG
I upgraded my rear shock from delux select to super delux ultimate rct2 2023 model only one month into owning the bike.
This came tuned by TFtuned for my weight and bike at the cost of £50 more than retail price.
So no messing with settings, it was fit it and forget it.
The difference was night and day, it felt like a different bike, no bobbing when pedling uphill, smooth yet stiff over very rough terain and amazing control over jumps and drops.
Well worth the £579 in my eyes.
Two weeks ago I upgraded the forks to 2023 170mm zeb ultimate.
This was not as easier swap due to buying from an online retailer and having figure out all the setup myself this time, plus the lowers needed removing and servicing to work as they should due to bucket of grease in the air spring.
It's taken weeks to get it dialed in, but it's again night and day difference in similar ways the shock was, very confidence inspiring making me do things I would never have done on the original suspension. It feels like I have so much more control over what the bike is doing.
Bike park Wales, jacobs ladder done and next week Tarland and Laggan all feel achievable now, this is coming from a total emtb noob says lots about what a great and well setup suspension can do for you.
If buying again I would buy direct from TF Tuned as they service the suspension and set it up to for your weight and bike for a small add cost of £50.

 

[Defmech]

next week Tarland and Laggan

Thanks for that. Enjoy Tarland and Laggan. Two of my fav places. Maybe worth looking in on Glen Livet. Halfway between the two.

 

[beutelfuchs]

My advice in case you have little experience with suspension and no one to help out: Get a shockwiz device and dial it in with that. Start with back, then front, then back again.
Cheaper suspension often misses setting options (HSC, LSC, HSR, LSR, pressure, tokens, HBO) so you might end up not getting close to the optimum. At that point you either bring your bike to a tuner and let them adjust the internals as indicated, or you buy parts offering all settings and do it yourself. If you are unlucky you might have the settings but some of them could miss adjust range, thats where you are back at your local tuner.

Just buying expensive parts will not improve anything for you until you know out how to set things up. You can be lucky and with your frame, weight and riding style you get your cheap stuff dialed to the optimum easily. And you could as well be unlucky and buy the most expensive parts with all the settings available, but not the right range for you.

In short, its not about the parts and their price range, its if you can get things dialed in for you or not.

 

[kbass24emtp]

Since you have a Zeb you can easily upgrade it to an ultimate. Get the Rockshox Trail Head app, put in the fork’s serial number and go to up grades on the app. It will tell you the part numbers you need.

 

[irie]

Since you have a Zeb you can easily upgrade it to an ultimate. Get the Rockshox Trail Head app, put in the fork’s serial number and go to up grades on the app. It will tell you the part numbers you need.

Can do this online.

RockShox TrailHead

A suspension specialist, in your pocket.

trailhead.rockshox.com

 

[emtbPhil]

I swapped out the basic Fox shock and 34 fork on my bike to factory float X and factory 36

It was a massive improvement, plush is a term used a lot but man they're so buttery smooth
For me though I have wrist problems (25 years sat at a desk coding) and any more comfort I could get up front was worth it, if you're a more normal rider I'm not sure the cost justifies the improvement.

They're much better on big drops and jumps but the most noticeable place for me is blasting over roots and rocks - much less chatter.

 

[Defmech]

Well. I’ve managed to save thousands of pounds by actually bothering to set up what I have. Went to the RockShox Trailhead site and plugged in my data. I’ve set the pressures and rebound as advised and shockingly they do feel a lot better. Kinda embarrassed that I didn’t do this sooner. My fork was pretty much spot on for pressure. Not sure how many clicks it was off but it’s dialled in now. Shock needed more pressure than I had. Again, not sure how much rebound I had it set it but have set as recommended now. Bike definitely feels better. Smoother on drops and jumps. Feels better over roots etc.

So thanks for all the advice. Don’t feel I need anything better now just yet. But I do have my eye on an Öhlins air shock.

 

[Lee c]

Well. I’ve managed to save thousands of pounds by actually bothering to set up what I have. Went to the RockShox Trailhead site and plugged in my data. I’ve set the pressures and rebound as advised and shockingly they do feel a lot better. Kinda embarrassed that I didn’t do this sooner. My fork was pretty much spot on for pressure. Not sure how many clicks it was off but it’s dialled in now. Shock needed more pressure than I had. Again, not sure how much rebound I had it set it but have set as recommended now. Bike definitely feels better. Smoother on drops and jumps. Feels better over roots etc.

So thanks for all the advice. Don’t feel I need anything better now just yet. But I do have my eye on an Öhlins air shock.

Nothing to be embarrassed about mate, everyone has done exactly the same atleast once and probably more than once

 

[Mr President]

My bike, Whyte e-160s, came with fairly basic suspension. A Zeb with Charger R Damper and a RockShox Deluxe Select+. If I was to upgrade both to something "better" what would I actually notice? I'm by no means an advanced rider, intermediate at best, so not sure what improvements would bring. I've also not ridden any bike with better components either. I've watched a few YouTube vids on the subject but bit baffled by LS, HS compression and rebound etc. Doubt I'd be playing with these once set up. I'm more of a set it and forget it kinda person. Would be interested in the opinion of anyone who's gone from a basic fork/shock to an upgraded one.

Cheers!

So you have same bike as me. Now 3 years old. Yes the components are quite basic and I have made minor upgrades to mine - meg neg can and shape-it link on the shock and 170mm air spring shaft on the Zeb. Both were cost effective and positive upgrades for my with my admittedly heavy weight 95Kg naked. I run the Zeb with 3 x volume spacers and 50psi, which seems to work well for me, although the suspension service company that does the 200 hour checks for me were a bit surprised.

those changes were cheap and effective. I am intermediate rider. Would I love a a better shock and fork - yes. Am I prepared to pay for them - no.

In all honesty the BIGGEST improvement i see on my set-up is each time I do a lower leg service on the fork for 20 quid.

 

[DirtFarmer]

Well my bike has fox factory 38s on it and it rides crap!
Mainly due to them being faulty. After 3 returns and all the internals replaced, my first ride today was still crap.
I'm hoping because they need adjusting to suit my riding ability.
So what I'm saying is, if you don't like the idea of playing with the knobs and fine tuning then stick with what you have and save your money for important things like beer,

If you don't have a good grasp of LSC, HSC, rebound etc maybe try renting a shockwiz. That should help you fine tune your current setup and the process might help you understand the tuning controls. Your current suspension is very capable when properly set up!

For me the ShockWiz is a great investment.
I bought one and have used it for multiple set ups.
You can try different types of “tunes”, add and remove tokens and dial in after a lap or two.
I only wish I had two.

 

[mike156]

At the time I didn’t consider £5600 to be low end. I’m 18 months and 5500km in on this bike. Been thinking about new new shock at least as my current one is showing signs of wear. If there is a next bike for me then I’ll be looking further up the spec charts.

Have you had the proper maintenance done routinely during that time? As was mentioned, the single most noticable thing you'll do is simply a lowers service if it hasn't been done in the last few months.

Low friction seals, good lube, and if you got somebody around to do it for cheap, burnish the bushings. These things will make a significant improvement on any fork.

After doing that, a third air chamber in the fork or a coil conversion will be the next best change. The damper will make for noticable gains, but even a crap damper can work pretty well if you have low friction and the air spring well done.

As for the rear shock, there are gains to be had but it's more trial and error on finding out what works for you and the bike. I'd get the front sorted out first though.

 

[2WheelsNot4]

BITD professional racers and teams were winning whatever the trophy was at the time on forks that had little more than preload and rebound. Not low speed this and high speed that, but simple as simple gets

Today professional racers and team,s are winning the same trophies.

What has changed ? For them nothing, but for the general bike buying public a huge range of infinite adjustments costing hundreds and hundreds of pounds/dollars.

Ever get the feeling you've been suckered in ?

 

[Mr President]

So you have same bike as me. Now 3 years old. Yes the components are quite basic and I have made minor upgrades to mine - meg neg can and shape-it link on the shock and 170mm air spring shaft on the Zeb. Both were cost effective and positive upgrades for my with my admittedly heavy weight 95Kg naked. I run the Zeb with 3 x volume spacers and 50psi, which seems to work well for me, although the suspension service company that does the 200 hour checks for me were a bit surprised.

those changes were cheap and effective. I am intermediate rider. Would I love a a better shock and fork - yes. Am I prepared to pay for them - no.

In all honesty the BIGGEST improvement i see on my set-up is each time I do a lower leg service on the fork for 20 quid.

Turns out I’m full of sh*t. Well sort of. Having told you all I wasn’t prepared to pay for upgraded specs I
saw a Smashpot coil conversion for Zeb 170mm on eBay and bought it.
Only done a few very muddy rides so far, but liking the change.
The spring I’ve installed is maybe a bit too stiff as I’m not wowed by the suppleness, but the mid stroke support is much better than when it was as an air shock. Heavier of course, but I haven’t really noticed that on the eeeeb and do limited jumping and dropping.
Main test to date was going down the new red (twisted sister) at Forest of Dean on a slippery day and feeling happily in control, which wouldn’t have the been the case previously I believe.
keep you posted

 

[Jake From State Farm]

Suspension is probably the best thing to upgrade. Although, I'd say that it isn't the biggest deal if you're fairly new to the sport. It will feel better, no doubt. Question is will the cost benefit you? Once you're actively looking for certain characteristics in your suspension platform you'll know it's time to upgrade. If you have the income though, it's probably the most noticeable...