pollywaffle
Member
2019 meta power 29. I've done about 1500 kms so far. I have been rotating three chains every 300 kms or so. Barely any chain stretch. No burs on cassette so all good so far
How long has your transmission lasted?
- Thread starter pollywaffle
- Start date
Levo Expert 950 miles got it July 400 miles first chain just about to change second one out. Wettest muddiest trails I have ever seen only managed about 3 runs without having to wash the beast.
Trail-Niels
E*POWAH Master
If it’s the GX/X01/XX1 chains it will last more a 1000 miles
Who knew that dusty, dry Arizona would be easy on chains. 3000 miles; 2000 commuting and 1000 trail with 1/32 inch of elongation over 12 inches. I’ll buy a new chain soon and probably change it when I get to 4000 miles.
I clean my chain only by applying excess lubricant and wiping it off and occasionally taking the time to wipe the grunge off of the side plates. I haven’t washed the bike even once.
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Trail-Niels
E*POWAH Master
Basically you should use a chain gauge like this one CC-3.2 Chain Checker (there a a variety of similar ones from various manufacturers) rotate 2-4 chains. First round of a chain - don’t let the gauge show wear of more than 0.5 mm - on the second round no more than 0.7 mm. You might need to change your jockey wheels on the derailleur after a while - I usually wear mine down on roughly 1500 - 2000 miles. Don’t be tempted to buy cheap chains, usually you get what you pay for. A low quality chain will wear down your driveline faster than a high quality one, and give you more rides with bad shiftin.
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Jealous as anything ive had 50 cycles since new
1000 miles and both chain and cassette kaput even with frequent cleaning and lubing .
one tip I was given was to start off in a low gear to reduce the torque going through the transmission .......OK if I remember to finish a ride in low..
Tyres will be the next to go.
one tip I was given was to start off in a low gear to reduce the torque going through the transmission .......OK if I remember to finish a ride in low..
Tyres will be the next to go.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
Only done 947 miles so far, no burring on the gears, no shifting problems, nothing!
The chain is below 0.5%.
This is on an 11-speed Shimano set up
Vs previous clockwork experience on 9 & 10 speed (Sram or Shimano, whatever was fitted), it is 50% further with 2/3 the wear. I could get 1400 miles out of this!
All original equipment. Chain kept clean, lubed before every ride, sympathetic shifting.
Mind you I was doing even better on Sram 12-speed! (On my clockwork bike).
The chain is below 0.5%.
This is on an 11-speed Shimano set up
Vs previous clockwork experience on 9 & 10 speed (Sram or Shimano, whatever was fitted), it is 50% further with 2/3 the wear. I could get 1400 miles out of this!
All original equipment. Chain kept clean, lubed before every ride, sympathetic shifting.
Mind you I was doing even better on Sram 12-speed! (On my clockwork bike).
Yes1000 miles and both chain and cassette kaput even with frequent cleaning and lubing .
one tip I was given was to start off in a low gear to reduce the torque going through the transmission .......OK if I remember to finish a ride in low..
Tyres will be the next to go.
I wish
Mcharza
E*POWAH BOSS
Done about 1500 kms so far. I have been rotating two chains every 400 km.
Basic Sram cassette 10-42 and chain SRAM PC X11
Basic Sram cassette 10-42 and chain SRAM PC X11
What's the benefits of rotating chains, apart from probably cleaning them better
JCB
Member
What is the advantage of rotating chains ?
Also, which chain do you recommend ?
Also, which chain do you recommend ?
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
I don't know for certain, but this is my explanation.
Typically you will get three chains out of one cassette without too much trouble, assuming that you change the chain before it gets to 0.75% Then the fourth new chain goes on and won't run properly, just skips under load. If you put the old chain back on it runs fine and it may run for quite a while!
Why is that then?
As the chain wears it wears the cassette. The second chain adapts itself to the partially worn cassette. It won't run as perfectly as the first chain did, but you didn't notice. Ditto the third chain. It too didn't run as well as the previous chain, you may have noticed something but it wasn't serious and it soon passed. Meanwhile the cassette tooth form has continued to wear. The third chain won't have lasted as long as the second and the second wouldn't have lasted as long as the first. By the time the third chain is ready for replacement, the cassette tooth form has changed so much that not even a new chain (especially a new chain) will run on it.
As the cassette has worn, the chain rollers no longer all drop in to all the gaps. The new chain has a shorter pitch than the old cassette and you get fewer and fewer rollers in contact with the cassette gear tooth faces. This increases the load on each tooth and starts to not only wear the tooth face even faster, but starts to push metal aside to form burrs. Burrs are a clear sign that the cassette is on the way out. Burrs can get large enough to catch on the chain and impede clean shifting. On the front ring, this can cause "chain-suck" where the chain is carried around instead of releasing to makes its way towards the back of the bike.
Edit: This may also be caused by "sharkfinning" of the teeth hooking the chain and carrying it around. (I have pictures of sharkfinning and burrs if anyone wants to see them).
So current practice is to keep fitting new chains until the difference between the new chain and the old cassette is too big to run under load.
The rotating chains theory is to change each chain early and rotate them so that the difference between the chain and the cassette never gets so different that they won't run together. Keep rotating the same three chains until eventually you have to stop. But don't forget that the front ring will be wearing too, so keep your eye on that as well!
I once tried the rotating chains idea but I sold the bike before I could complete the experiment! It should work in theory though (and in practice according to many).
But I have discovered that 11 and 12-speed gear seems to be made differently because I get much better life than ever I did with 9 or 10-speed kit. So I have no motivation to re-run the experiment.
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Makes sense hopefully I'm not too late I'm about to put on 3rd it's not quite 0.75 yet. What I used to notice on normal bike if a new chain did jump on olld cassette it would bed itself in after a few rides as usually it only jumped on a few gears . Will certainly experiment if it starts jumping , just pedal a bit easier , but might not work with motor assist. I'm finding down shifting not good on 4 to 5 sometimes having to go to 6 so multi shifts when it goes. Been horrible wet trails where I have been since i got bike July.I don't know for certain, but this is my explanation.
Typically you will get three chains out of one cassette without too much trouble, assuming that you change the chain before it gets to 0.75% Then the fourth new chain goes on and won't run properly, just skips under load. If you put the old chain back on it runs fine and it may run for quite a while!
Why is that then?
As the chain wears it wears the cassette. The second chain adapts itself to the partially worn cassette. It won't run as perfectly as the first chain did, but you didn't notice. Ditto the third chain. It too didn't run as well as the previous chain, you may have noticed something but it wasn't serious and it soon passed. Meanwhile the cassette tooth form has continued to wear. The third chain won't have lasted as long as the second and the second wouldn't have lasted as long as the first. By the time the third chain is ready for replacement, the cassette tooth form has changed so much that not even a new chain (especially a new chain) will run on it.
As the cassette has worn, the chain rollers no longer all drop in to all the gaps. The new chain has a shorter pitch than the old cassette and you get fewer and fewer rollers in contact with the cassette gear tooth faces. This increases the load on each tooth and starts to not only wear the tooth face even faster, but starts to push metal aside to form burrs. Burrs are a clear sign that the cassette is on the way out. Burrs can get large enough to catch on the chain and impede clean shifting. On the front ring, this can cause "chain-suck" where the chain is carried around instead of releasing to makes its way towards the back of the bike.
So current practice is to keep fitting new chains until the difference between the new chain and the old cassette is too big to run under load.
The rotating chains theory is to change each chain early and rotate them so that the difference between the chain and the cassette never gets so different that they won't run together. Keep rotating the same three chains until eventually you have to stop. But don't forget that the front ring will be wearing too, so keep your eye on that as well!
I once tried the rotating chains idea but I sold the bike before I could complete the experiment! It should work in theory though (and in practice according to many).
But I have discovered that 11 and 12-speed gear seems to be made differently because I get much better life than ever I did with 9 or 10-speed kit. So I have no motivation to re-run the experiment.
I experienced this kind of skipping even after changing a chain at a half percent of chain elongation but it usually goes away after a few miles; I suppose that the strategy of periodically rotating several chains would avoid this but that’s way too much attention to bike maintenance than I’m capable of.
I finally got around to changing the oil in my fork lowers after several years; I’m more of an if it works don’t fix it kind of guy except that I do check for chain wear every few weeks when I lube the chain.
Yes don't do much more than I have too as well. Then again some folk love maintenance. Back in the day you could turn a front chainring the opposite way round and get another 2 years out of it.
Mcharza
E*POWAH BOSS
You can use the same cassette longer. Chains are cheaper than cassette
Trail-Niels
E*POWAH Master
@steve_sordy explained thoroughly i must say
My experience (from my analogue bike) is as follows. I found the sweet spot 800 kms (500 miles) between rotation of 3 chains. I run SRAM Eagle X01 cassette and chain. I've never seen any drivetrain last as long as the Eagle. The front chainring wears out much faster than the cassette (well there is only one - and rear there are 12 to share the load).
My drivetrain has currently run 7500 kms (4700 miles), I'm on the third chain ring in front, just mounted a new rear derailleur since the old one after two sets of jockey wheels now also suffered from a worn down spring. The cassette will probably have at least 2500 kms back as far as I can see.
My experience (from my analogue bike) is as follows. I found the sweet spot 800 kms (500 miles) between rotation of 3 chains. I run SRAM Eagle X01 cassette and chain. I've never seen any drivetrain last as long as the Eagle. The front chainring wears out much faster than the cassette (well there is only one - and rear there are 12 to share the load).
My drivetrain has currently run 7500 kms (4700 miles), I'm on the third chain ring in front, just mounted a new rear derailleur since the old one after two sets of jockey wheels now also suffered from a worn down spring. The cassette will probably have at least 2500 kms back as far as I can see.
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Glen
Member
6000km turbo levo, thinking about new set now.
Will try tomorrow with new chain but will replace if it keeps skipping.
Will try tomorrow with new chain but will replace if it keeps skipping.
Give it a few gentler runs Glen it may bed in .
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
The cassette looks well worn to me. Burrs everywhere and elongation of the root of the teeth.
The ring looks OK, but after 6000 km it has earned its coin, so you may as well replace it if all else will be new. Then you are good for another 6000 km.
The ring looks OK, but after 6000 km it has earned its coin, so you may as well replace it if all else will be new. Then you are good for another 6000 km.
Al-Rider
Member
So, if I understood well, one should have 3 chains. Use the first for 800km, swap for the second until the odo reaches 1600km, use the 3rd chain until the odo reaches 2400, then install the first chain again and do the cycle again. Is that correct?
No no no you misunderstood change chains every 3 km ask Zimmermann he is the chain expert
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
I would run to 0.5% length extension on the first three chains, then run all three to 0.75%. If you get that far and still have no shifting problems then your bike has earned a new transmission. But you will probably carry on to 1% on each chain until something unpleasant happens.
Let us know what happens as the years go by.
Trail-Niels
E*POWAH Master
That ii correctly understood and is the way I do it, and it works well for me. A suggestion could be to shorten the first round to 500 km per chain.
steve_sordy
Wedding Crasher
The reason that I used 0.5% length extension instead of a distance, is that what happens during that distance is a variable. If you ride wet and gritty over the Winter, that will have a different affect to merely damp and grippy during the Spring. It is the wear that does the damage, not the distance per se. For example, the roadies can get thousands of miles out of a chain.
pollywaffle
Member
- Thread starter
- #29
Lots of burs on cassette, I usually file them off on my commuter ebike and skipping stops. But it's an 8 speed and 1000 watt beast with ridiculous amounts of torque. New chain and cassette every couple of months, hence the cheap 8 speed.
3rd chain on yesterday and 3rd set rear pads fitted.. Will wait till cassette goes then try the chain rotation routine. 1000 miles of very wet and muddy riding considering it was summer . But oh the enjoyment and amount of effortless climbing.
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