Unanswered How Does Shimano Know If You've Derestricted Your Bike?

[pollywaffle]

I can see how other manufacturers could tell because they have gps in their units and I suppose if Shimano printed a graph of usage they could tell (mainly for someone who is always derestricted and flogging their bike all the time). I frequently switch from restricted to derestricted.

I am wondering if anybody actually knows how they know?

 

[Gary]

They read this forum and find you via your IP address

 

[pollywaffle]

They read this forum and find you via your IP address

Hahaha lucky I’m behind a VPN

 

[Jamsxr]

I guess potentially if it throws up and stores an error... how are you derestricting?

 

[Doomanic]

How do you know they know?

 

[pollywaffle]

How do you know they know?

I don’t know they know. But those allegedly in the know say they know.

 

[Doomanic]

Have they offered any proof or is it

 

[pollywaffle]

I guess potentially if it throws up and stores an error... how are you derestricting?

Did the magnet on the pedals for 10kms until it threw an error. Then bought a badass doover. It’s cool because you just move the magnet an inch or two to switch from restricted to derestricted.

 

[pollywaffle]

Have they offered any proof or is it

Who knows? What i read (probably here) is that all warranty jobs have some sort of diagnostics from the motors usage sent to shimano. It’s probably bullshit but I’d be interested to know. Surely dealers could answer the question

 

[valium64]

Have they offered any proof or is it

Who knows? What i read (probably here) is that all warranty jobs have some sort of diagnostics from the motors usage sent to shimano. It’s probably bullshit but I’d be interested to know. Surely dealers could answer the question

Did you ever try them software? E-tube by PC with Shimano interface and the diagnosis tools?
Do you know that the results even not report the exact value of the assistance stored in the system?
Many people wrote just because they have a keyboard and finger but without knowing anything about what they wrote about!

 

[Jamsxr]

Did the magnet on the pedals for 10kms until it threw an error. Then bought a badass doover. It’s cool because you just move the magnet an inch or two to switch from restricted to derestricted.

Expensive for a bit of plastic and a magnet but looks like the best option!

 

[R120]

The advantage of the bad ass box is that you don't have to open the motor casing etc, so no visible evidence that it has been derestricted if taken in to a dealer and the BAB has been removed. The only tell tale sign is if they can can somehow correlate the milage with the wear.

 

[Kaneophoto]

They can get a quick idea by how many charge cycles to kms the bike has done and the battery stores complex information like load draw and discharge rate that can easily give you up. Also the wiring harness that can show signs of excess heat like melted plastic and burnt terminals. Most ebike wiring is only just good enough for standard operation. Deresticting is a recipe for failure eventually

 

[Kaneophoto]

Also on bosch bikes, the updating program shows exactly how many times the bike has been hacked.

 

[R120]

Why? The motor is most under load when getting under way or on steep ascents, well below the limiter - the reality of riding derestricted is that you are actually using very little motor power/assitance over the limit, what derestricting does is eliminate the on off feeling on a lot of flow trails. My derestricted bike is no faster than it unrestricted, its just nicer to ride

What you are doing is using the motor more, but not putting it under more strain. The main downside is you are using the battery the whole time, meaning you range takes a hit, and also your battery life.

 

[Kaneophoto]

The motor isn’t the issue here. The battery and wiring will get drawn on much more , even at low pressure on the pedals over the speed limit than initial takeoff. The motors are easily capable of the derestriction its the other components that don’t like it.

 

[Eckythump]

Also the wiring harness that can show signs of excess heat like melted plastic and burnt terminals. Most ebike wiring is only just good enough for standard operation.

That’s a load of rubbish!

De-restricting a motor doesn’t magically increase its output, all it does is remove the speed limiter. Same watts and same amp draw. If anything the motor is under less strain as you are sat spinning and there is more cooling air going around the motor & battery.

 

[R120]

I would agree with you that the main negatives are on the other components.

 

[Kaneophoto]

That’s a load of rubbish!

De-restricting a motor doesn’t magically increase its output, all it does is remove the speed limiter. Same watts and same amp draw. If anything the motor is under less strain as you are sat spinning and there is more cooling air going around the motor & battery.

Like i said. It doesn’t effect the motor. It will draw more current from the battery though. Wondering how many derestricted ebikes you have had to fix. A lot less than me it would seem.

 

[Eckythump]

If you are finding melted wires and terminals the issue is not with a speed de-restrictor.......

 

[khorn]

Like i said. It doesn’t effect the motor. It will draw more current from the battery though. Wondering how many derestricted ebikes you have had to fix. A lot less than me it would seem.

That is simply not true, the BMS within the battery controls the power output to the motor and has absolutely nothing to do with speed/restricted/de-restricted. I can put much more load on a bike that’s restricted going up a 20 km 6000ft climb than doing 40 kmh on a flat road....

Karsten

 

[valium64]

Exactly! You can melt cables and components not if you use higher assistance rates or higher speeds but if you raise the power peaks and the maximum power, there that if the motor and the rest of the system is not very oversized you risk having nasty surprises, as a matter of fact it has already happened to a careless user.

 

[Kaneophoto]

If you are finding melted wires and terminals the issue is not with a speed de-restrictor.......

So lets get this straight. You are saying that if i have two identical bikes, one sitting on 24km/h and one sitting on 30km/h, the battery will last exactly the same time? No. The faster one will flatten quicker. More stress on the battery. Simple and a fact.

 

[Eckythump]

Like i said. It doesn’t effect the motor. It will draw more current from the battery though.

No it won’t. Unless the power rating of the motor is increased it cannot draw more current.
Virtually all the motors are available in the US with a 20mph speed limit. A number are available as S-pedelec 28mph so they are more than capable along with the batteries, wiring & connectors.
More strain is placed on motor & battery on long slow climbs. Motors back off assistance as heat increases which can be felt.

 

[Eckythump]

So lets get this straight. You are saying that if i have two identical bikes, one sitting on 24km/h and one sitting on 30km/h, the battery will last exactly the same time?

If the motors are under the same load (watts) at those speeds then yes.

 

[khorn]

Exactly! You can melt cables and components not if you use higher assistance rates or higher speeds but if you raise the power peaks and the maximum power, there that if the motor and the rest of the system is not very oversized you risk having nasty surprises, as a matter of fact it has already happened to a careless user.

It seems like people here does not understand how a BMS work inside a battery - That is the part of the system that controls how many Ah a motor is able to draw from the battery and that has NOTHING to do with de-restricting a EMTB. You will not get any more power out of your motor by de-restricting and btw you can easily put more load on a restricted bike than a de-restricted bike depending on the environment you ride in.

the only real negative about de-restricting is consumption of power as motor will always give support no matter how fast you go and again - It is not because the power output is higher!!

Karsten

 

[Kaneophoto]

That is simply not true, the BMS within the battery controls the power output to the motor and has absolutely nothing to do with speed/restricted/de-restricted. I can put much more load on a bike that’s restricted going up a 20 km 6000ft climb than doing 40 kmh on a flat road....

Karsten

No it won’t. Unless the power rating of the motor is increased it cannot draw more current.
Virtually all the motors are available in the US with a 20mph speed limit. A number are available as S-pedelec 28mph so they are more than capable along with the batteries, wiring & connectors.
More strain is placed on motor & battery on long slow climbs. Motors back off assistance as heat increases which can be felt.

wrong. But I suppose its up to you. I don’t have a problem with people deresricting their bikes. Just saying we can tell they have been and goodluck getting warranty.

If the motors are under the same load (watts) at those speeds then yes.

but they cant be

 

[Eckythump]

but they cant be

Of course they can, going up a hill, heavier rider, whatever.
The point is the motor will not draw more than its design ratings with the speed restrictor disabled so cannot place more load on the battery.

As @khorn explained, the battery will be consumed sooner as it is in use more on an identical ride where the are sections with speed in excess of the limiter but no more load will be placed on the system than any other section of the ride.

 

[khorn]

wrong. But I suppose its up to you. I don’t have a problem with people deresricting their bikes. Just saying we can tell they have been and goodluck getting warranty.

but they cant be

What is wrong?

I can assure none of my statements are wrong and if you indeed still think so please provide proof.

Karsten

 

[Doomanic]

We need to see photographs showing proof a bike has been derestricted before this gets out of hand.