Horrible clicking sound

[thenm8r]

Noticed a horrible clicking noise in the front a while ago, it would happen under brakes/ drops etc.
I took out the forks and gave the upper headset (bottom looked fine) so grease, sound continued.
Took to the bike shop where they ordered a new head set stack (they said the ICR compression ring was failing so they put a new one in,) - this tookIts been them 2 weeks to get the part and put it in.
The said they fixed it - I picked it up, and they handed me a bag of spares of the other headset parts, including upper and lower bearings and cups.
I took the bike out to car park, and the same horrible clicking sound was present. The mechanic basically shrugged and said to but a new head set and try that.
The video below is AFTER they told me bike was fixed. Bike upside down, feet on bars and pulling/ pushing forks back and forth. It appears to me that the sound is coming from the lower headset, and there looks to be quite a bit of movement there? I changed out the bearing and cup with the new one, and the same sound was still present, so I took the bike to another shop (same shop chain, different location as they are the dealer of the bike).
They pulled it apart and greased it, and again blamed the compression ring. I said it was brand new. They seem stumped and still have the bike.


Any idea what it could be? The forks are Zebs, the clicking sound doesnt happen when you twist the forks (so shouldnt be the stanchions), its only back and forward movement, not sure if its the crown? But the movement im seeing (maybe thats normal?) seems to be within the lower cup/ bearing?

I ordered an aftermarket upper headset bering/ compression cap etc to try as well.
Bike is a Cube Stereo Hybrid 160. Any ideas? Its been in the shop now over 3 weeks.

 

[wenna]

That´s not normal. Did they change the crown race also?

 

[thenm8r]

That´s not normal. Did they change the crown race also?

Im actually googling crown race now, I didnt know what it was called.
There was a new one in the kit, im going to call them tomorrow and ask about it.
To me, it almost sounds and looks like the crown race popping in and out of the groove ove the lower bearing.

 

[steve_sordy]

Just watched the video! That is very bad, there should be no movement like that.
It looks and sounds as though something is broken! Or something very loose inside.
I would not ride the bike until that is fixed.
I would strip it down, remove the fork and so forth, then examine every single component for signs of excessive wear or damage. I have no idea what you might find.

 

[ipe]

I'd be willing to bet the fork CSU is failing. The fork stanchions or the steerer tube are "loose"* in the fork crown itself. The stanchions and steerer tube are press fit into the crown itself, and one these tubes (or many of them) have developed play, and that's the creaking you're hearing. It has nothing to do with the headset. If you took the fork lowers off the stanchions and pushed/pulled on the stanchions, there's a good chance you'd replicate the noise.

* Loose as in its not going to fall apart in your hand, but as in, there's "play" where there shouldn't be

The solution is either replacing the CSU, hopefully under warranty (if possible), or having a competent suspension shop repress the tubes. A new CSU isn't very expensive, in the grand scheme of things, and the labor cost should be similar to doing a lower service on the fork.

Good luck

The Notch Cyclery on Instagram: "Sound on! Little before and after on a ZEB CSU de-creak. Trying to track down a creaky front end? It may not just be a headset issue! We've been seeing (and fixing) alot of longer travel single crowns with creaky CSU

116 likes, 0 comments - thenotchcyclery on August 24, 2023: "Sound on! Little before and after on a ZEB CSU de-creak. Trying to track down a creaky front end..."

www.instagram.com

 

[irie]

Noticed a horrible clicking noise in the front a while ago, it would happen under brakes/ drops etc.
I took out the forks and gave the upper headset (bottom looked fine) so grease, sound continued.
Took to the bike shop where they ordered a new head set stack (they said the ICR compression ring was failing so they put a new one in,) - this tookIts been them 2 weeks to get the part and put it in.
The said they fixed it - I picked it up, and they handed me a bag of spares of the other headset parts, including upper and lower bearings and cups.
I took the bike out to car park, and the same horrible clicking sound was present. The mechanic basically shrugged and said to but a new head set and try that.
The video below is AFTER they told me bike was fixed. Bike upside down, feet on bars and pulling/ pushing forks back and forth. It appears to me that the sound is coming from the lower headset, and there looks to be quite a bit of movement there? I changed out the bearing and cup with the new one, and the same sound was still present, so I took the bike to another shop (same shop chain, different location as they are the dealer of the bike).
They pulled it apart and greased it, and again blamed the compression ring. I said it was brand new. They seem stumped and still have the bike.


Any idea what it could be? The forks are Zebs, the clicking sound doesnt happen when you twist the forks (so shouldnt be the stanchions), its only back and forward movement, not sure if its the crown? But the movement im seeing (maybe thats normal?) seems to be within the lower cup/ bearing?

I ordered an aftermarket upper headset bering/ compression cap etc to try as well.
Bike is a Cube Stereo Hybrid 160. Any ideas? Its been in the shop now over 3 weeks.

That movement is seriously horrible. Wouldn't ride a bike like that - can you take it to another bike shop and show them that movement?

 

[RustyIron]

Took to the bike shop

Well there's your problem right there.

No one who knows anything about bikes would allow your bike to leave the shop in its current condition. The guy is an imbecile.

Now might be the time to delve into the intricacies of headsets yourself, so you can be SURE what's going on. My advice on headsets is to buy everything as a set. Never buy parts piecemeal. Get something from a top-tier company. Chris King makes the best headsets. If King isn't in your budget, Cane Creak and the other lesser brands are not terrible. ALWAYS slop everything up with more grease than you think is reasonable. Modern headset design is cheap and light, but imperfect. Grease will keep things quiet between servicing. It also keeps the water out.

Lastly, maybe the fool at the shop didn't install it properly. If you're really averse to taking it apart, maybe you can loosen the stem, tighten the preload to whatever it's supposed to be, and then retighten the stem. Insufficient preload with look exactly as your video shows.

 

[Mikerb]

there is nothing in a head set regardless how knackered that would make that noise. The noise is the sound of 2 metals supposedly bonded together but with slight movement...............so the noise is most definitely the fork steerer loose in the fork crown.
It is easy enough to prove by replacing the fork
The movement in the headset should not be there but is not the source of the noise...........it is the result of not being properly assembled and adjusted.
It seems to me your bike shop has decided your headset is the problem and are left clueless when they replaced the headset ( badly) but the noise was still there. That suggests you need to get the bike back from that shop and take it somewhere that has a competent bike mechanic!!

 

[thenm8r]

Now might be the time to delve into the intricacies of headsets yourself, so you can be SURE what's going on. My advice on headsets is to buy everything as a set. Never buy parts piecemeal. Get something from a top-tier company. Chris King makes the best headsets. If King isn't in your budget, Cane Creak and the other lesser brands are not terrible. ALWAYS slop everything up with more grease than you think is reasonable. Modern headset design is cheap and light, but imperfect. Grease will keep things quiet between servicing. It also keeps the water out.

Lastly, maybe the fool at the shop didn't install it properly. If you're really averse to taking it apart, maybe you can loosen the stem, tighten the preload to whatever it's supposed to be, and then retighten the stem. Insufficient preload with look exactly as your video shows.

Not adverse in taking it apart, I did that several times trying to locate the sound before taking it in. I also took it apart and replaced bearings after he had it in shop (and before I took it to the next shop)
The headset is now all new, and I cant get chris king etc because this is an ICR unit, the only aftermarket company that makes headsets to fir size and ICR is acros components, which I have ordered from commencal who keep it in stock for their bikes.
I cant see how this could be a preload issue when its the forks fexing back and forth, not up/down? Its not the stanchions, but could possibly be the steerer tube.

 

[RustyIron]

I cant see how this could be a preload issue when its the forks fexing back and forth, not up/down

Ok.

 

[Mikerb]

there is nothing in a head set regardless how knackered that would make that noise. The noise is the sound of 2 metals supposedly bonded together but with slight movement...............so the noise is most definitely the fork steerer loose in the fork crown.
It is easy enough to prove by replacing the fork
The movement in the headset should not be there but is not the source of the noise...........it is the result of not being properly assembled and adjusted.
It seems to me your bike shop has decided your headset is the problem and are left clueless when they replaced the headset ( badly) but the noise was still there. That suggests you need to get the bike back from that shop and take it somewhere that has a competent bike mechanic!!

with hindsight I believe there is one scenario that might create such a noise in the head tube. If one of the bearing cups is no longer bonded to the headtube I guess it might make that sort of sound......I am sceptical however since the frame of your bike is carbon and the noise sounds like metal to metal to me...............the volume of the click may suggest however that it is inside the headtube and being amplified by the enclosed space in there. Worth checking?

 

[jackamo]

I don't get why they ordered a complete headset and only replaced 1 part.

I wouldn't be back there again.

But it does look like a lower race issue.

 

[Arminius]

Having checked in German forums by searching „ZEB Noise“ it looks like Creeking Crown, as mentioned by others before and explained here:

Burning Question: What Causes Some Fork Crowns to Creak? - Pinkbike

 

[Nick314]

Well there's your problem right there.

No one who knows anything about bikes would allow your bike to leave the shop in its current condition. The guy is an imbecile.

Now might be the time to delve into the intricacies of headsets yourself, so you can be SURE what's going on. My advice on headsets is to buy everything as a set. Never buy parts piecemeal. Get something from a top-tier company. Chris King makes the best headsets. If King isn't in your budget, Cane Creak and the other lesser brands are not terrible. ALWAYS slop everything up with more grease than you think is reasonable. Modern headset design is cheap and light, but imperfect. Grease will keep things quiet between servicing. It also keeps the water out.

Lastly, maybe the fool at the shop didn't install it properly. If you're really averse to taking it apart, maybe you can loosen the stem, tighten the preload to whatever it's supposed to be, and then retighten the stem. Insufficient preload with look exactly as your video shows.

I'd agree with all that. Should never leave the shop like that! Its almost like the preload isn't enough, then maybe the crown race isn't seated in the tube properly...but only way is to start again, really. One thing to double double check is the tensioner at the top is holding it tight when you seat it and then retorque the bars. I had a slightly dodgy crown that wouldn't let me tighten the stem up then would pop out a little.

 

[irie]

I wouldn't be back there again.

Absolutely not.

Years ago, after a bike had been in a shop for some work, not far from home noticed that there was a strange clicking sound every time I used the front brake. Gave the calliper a wiggle with my hand and it was loose on the bolts! Got home using only the rear brake. Never set foot inside that shop again, am lucky to have several LBS's.

 

[Hattori-Hanzo]

Maybe stating the obvious, but is the star nut installed correctly in the steerer tube and are you getting the correct pre load on the bearings and cups?
If not this would cause your symptoms.

If that's all correct then as said above the next likely thing could be the fitment of the steerer tube into the crown.