Hit the limiter...strange drag?

[EchoLima21]

Hi all,
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I have an ex-demo Whyte E-160 S with nigh-on 200 miles on the motor, of which I've added approx 30.
My first ride was post-Covid so my brain wasn't at its most incisive when it came to assessing the ride, so we'll put that to one side.
The second, today, there was a feeling of real drag through the cranks as soon as I exceeded the limit of motor support.
Is this usual, just me and my bike, just Whyte or just Bosch?
Thanks guys and I have really appreciated all your posts and insights that have helped me choose the bike.
For what it's worth the grip is unworldly compared to my Orbea acoustic although there is clearly a great deal of re-learning ahead of me.
All the best,
David

PS Does anyone else crash through the full extent of the travel at both ends on pretty modest trails? (Sag set OK, one token in the rear.)

 

[steve_sordy]

That drag may well just be a big heavy bike on big fat soft tyres, ie normal.

 

[EchoLima21]

Roger, although it appears to manifest itself on descents, too, which seems strange.

 

[chrismechmaster]

I would say pretty normal for a full fat ebike
My Levo ff Is the same it’s quite tough with drag when I hit that limiter even harder if I turned the motor off
Pretty normal I would say for a ff ebike

 

[EebStrider]

I would say pretty normal for a full fat ebike
My Levo ff Is the same it’s quite tough with drag when I hit that limiter even harder if I turned the motor off
Pretty normal I would say for a ff ebike

That may be normal for the Levo, but it isn’t for a Bosch powered ebike. Both of mine go past the limiter with absolutely no drag whatsoever.

 

[EchoLima21]

Coolio. I’m out with a 160RS tomorrow, so I’ll compare and contrast. Thanks for your help.

 

[The Hodge]

As far as crashing through travel on modest trails ..nope nowhere near .
Have you checked the psi in your forks & shock ?

 

[Pigin]

I’ve not tried this but if you turn the motor to off once you are over the limit does that make any difference?

 

[EchoLima21]

As far as crashing through travel on modest trails ..nope nowhere near .
Have you checked the psi in your forks & shock ?

PSI front and rear was checked and sag is as it should be. Almost maxed out the forks on Barry Knows Best (Surrey Hills), which is hardly anyone’s idea of gnarly.

 

[EchoLima21]

I’ve not tried this but if you turn the motor to off once you are over the limit does that make any difference?

Yeah, this only occurred to me post-ride, but I will definitely give it a go and see what happens.

 

[Nick790]

I’m new to this, but only notice the cut out drag on the road or up hill.
I blew through the std travel on my firs muddy ride. So that’ll need looking at when I start pushing it.

 

[Rik08]

I’d say the drag is normal, 25kg bike on fat tyres ! The bottoming out I had on mine when I first got it, upped the psi in front and rear, fine now with 25% sag, but not done anything too narley

 

[Paul C]

I feel same on my 160RS
See what happens tommorow

 

[Rosemount]

FFS ! People who say there is no drag above 25 Kmph are either tripping or riding down hill .
I have run out of battery on both Bosch and Brose . It was not fun either time . Riding on the flat ,drag is minimal . As soon as you ride up an incline the weight and drag are very noticeable .

 

[EchoLima21]

FFS ! People who say there is no drag above 25 Kmph are either tripping or riding down hill .
I have run out of battery on both Bosch and Brose . It was not fun either time . Riding on the flat ,drag is minimal . As soon as you ride up an incline the weight and drag are very noticeable .

This drag was really noticeable even downhill. It was ‘drag’ on the cranks, and accelerating was quite hard. I have an acoustic with a 2.6in 29er and it would simply open up at the point where the Whyte was ‘being held back’.
As I say, maybe it’s me, I just need to know.

 

[R120]

What tyres are you running, the OEM Assegai/Minion combo?

 

[EchoLima21]

What tyres are you running, the OEM Assegai/Minion combo?

I’m not sure what the combo is, but I’m pretty sure it ain’t stock. I’ll check and update.

 

[EebStrider]

Something’s not right. I took mine well past the limit today, and there was no drag. The bike did feel a lot heavier than my Bosch powered Cube, but at the moment I’m putting that down to the tyres.

 

[Paul C]

I am on stock could be tyre drag. But had same tyres on analogue bike

 

[EebStrider]

I am on stock could be tyre drag. But had same tyres on analogue bike

Interesting. My Cube is on Nobby Nic tyres, and feels much lighter in comparison to my Whyte with the same motor and DH22’s.

 

[Rahr85]

I even noticed the difference between 2.5 assegai maxxgrip and maxxterra on the rear. It is like the maxxgrip is refusing to go anywhere.

 

[Mteam]

There's minaimal/no drag from the motor when over the assist limit, but what you're feeling is the effect of having to find an extra 100w (or whatever) of power to replace the power that the motor was giving you just a second ago.

If you're like most ebikers you'll be in a gear about 3 gears higher than optimimum for the speed, because the motor has so much torque. This (being in too high a gear) will not be helping you either.

If you want to prove there's minimal drag, put the bike in a work stand so the wheel is off the ground,switch motor off and turn the cranks by hand. Or take the chain off and turn cranks by hand, you can then feel whatever drag is in the motor - it's minimal. Any drag you feel when riding is due to the bike being heavy plus whatever tyres you are running plus any binding from the brakes (hopefully no brake binding though)

 

[flash]

Drop the chain. Rotate the cranks. That's how much drag the system has. The rest is the tyres and 25kg of awesome.

Gordon

 

[EebStrider]

There's minaimal/no drag from the motor when over the assist limit, but what you're feeling is the effect of having to find an extra 100w (or whatever) of power to replace the power that the motor was giving you just a second ago.

If you're like most ebikers you'll be in a gear about 3 gears higher than optimimum for the speed, because the motor has so much torque. This (being in too high a gear) will not be helping you either.

If you want to prove there's minimal drag, put the bike in a work stand so the wheel is off the ground,switch motor off and turn the cranks by hand. Or take the chain off and turn cranks by hand, you can then feel whatever drag is in the motor - it's minimal. Any drag you feel when riding is due to the bike being heavy plus whatever tyres you are running plus any binding from the brakes (hopefully no brake binding though)

I’ve just done exactly that, with both of my ebikes, and they feel exactly the same. So I’m putting it down to tyres. As the main point of having a bike for me is exercise, I’m going to give myself a pat on the back for making my workouts harder without any intention of doing so!

 

[EchoLima21]

Hands up, whomever said ‘Tyres’.
You win!
WTB Verdict front and (DH) rear.
Fine on a 30mph Tarmac steep decline, hard work on shallower stuff.

 

[Mr President]

Hands up, whomever said ‘Tyres’.
You win!
WTB Verdict front and (DH) rear.
Fine on a 30mph Tarmac steep decline, hard work on shallower stuff.

yes. I feel it on the shallow, fast descents. On steep descents I'm often on the brakes in any case - I'm usually happy for some drag then. On shallow stuff there is nothing holding you back but the drag, which is mostly the tyres.
On the travel _ I have E 160S. I added a spacer to both fork and shock to make it ramp up towards the end. transformational. the shop also warned me that the Zebb fork runs on low pressures compared to most others and a couple of psi one way or t'other makes a big difference. they recommended getting a digital display pump.

 

[EchoLima21]

yes. I feel it on the shallow, fast descents. On steep descents I'm often on the brakes in any case - I'm usually happy for some drag then. On shallow stuff there is nothing holding you back but the drag, which is mostly the tyres.
On the travel _ I have E 160S. I added a spacer to both fork and shock to make it ramp up towards the end. transformational. the shop also warned me that the Zebb fork runs on low pressures compared to most others and a couple of psi one way or t'other makes a big difference. they recommended getting a digital display pump.

Gotcha - thanks. I think the solution to the drag is cadence; keep the pedals spinning at what (initially) feels too low and I’ve found you increase speed but minimise the ‘drag’.
On my acoustic Orbea I have my sag set at 30% f/r, but with 150mm of travel on the front I rarely, if ever, blaze through the full limit around the Surrey Hills. I think that’s happened just once on the rear.

I have double-checked the 160 and it definitely has 30% sag f/r. The suspension feels far less plush than the acoustic, but the cornering grip is astonishing and there’s no sense of diving...just no travel left either end.
I think the megneg is something I will explore and maybe +2 tokens up front.

 

[Zimmerframe]

Ahhh. But then we must discuss if the
OP is in as good shape as you.

Are you trying to chat up @RichT001 ??

 

[Jackware]

Are you trying to chat up @RichT001 ??

He was hoping for a pic of hitting the limit in strange drag

 

[Zimmerframe]

He was hoping for a pic of hitting the limit in strange drag

View attachment 53163

Makes you wonder how bad the next one is !? Everyone's looking that way, except BAMBAM, with his ten gallon hat, who knows a good thing when he sees it !