Hello all, so I have two EMTBs in the shop 'basket'...but I can only have one...arrgghhh...

[EvoKenevo]

Full ack, wouldn't order a bike as well without having a dealer / mech in my area. Also it's not really an alternative for a Kenevo, it's something very different to ride - but you know that already when you own a fatbike.

Yesterday i found this review of a Kenevo, which was done by a german Levo rider, he's a bit older, average skillset, just enjoying trails, not "shredding it" hard. Hope youtube is translating that good enough so you'll understand. He's all like "if you don't own a fullface helmet and protection gear, the Kenevo is the wrong bike for you". He had a very good time riding uphill, but on the trail and downhill he only used 60% of the forks suspension (with sack set right) - so the bike felt too rigid for him. He's definitely not the type of rider the Kenevo needs to perform good on the downhills (he's also stating that himself).

Just wanted to mention that, cause it very depends on your riding style. If you don't use a big percentage of the suspension 90% of your time, you would probably be better pleased with a Levo and still can ride the steepest downhills, just not as fast like on the Kenevo.

I must remember to "set my sack" when I collect my Kenevo later

 

[Donnie797]

I must remember to "set my sack" when I collect my Kenevo later

It's VERY important, you don't want to mess that up! I've corrected that ^^

 

[Sophie777]

Full ack, wouldn't order a bike as well without having a dealer / mech in my area. Also it's not really an alternative for a Kenevo, it's something very different to ride - but you know that already when you own a fatbike.

Yesterday i found this review of a Kenevo, which was done by a german Levo rider, he's a bit older, average skillset, just enjoying trails, not "shredding it" hard. Hope youtube is translating that good enough so you'll understand. He's all like "if you don't own a fullface helmet and protection gear, the Kenevo is the wrong bike for you". He had a very good time riding uphill, but on the trail and downhill he only used 60% of the forks suspension (with sag set right) - so the bike felt too rigid for him. He's definitely not the type of rider the Kenevo needs to perform good on the downhills (he's also stating that himself).

Just wanted to mention that, cause it very depends on your riding style. If you don't use a big percentage of the suspension 90% of your time, you would probably be better pleased with a Levo and still can ride the steepest downhills, just not as fast like on the Kenevo.

Thanks for that! I wish I could understand what the rider was saying in the video.
But if I don't use a big percentage of the suspension 90% of the time (which is very probable in my case) - why do you think I would be better pleased with the Levo? You think I could like the Kenevo less because of its greater suspension?
And I don't understand why he felt the Kenevo too rigid?

 

[eFat]

And I don't understand why he felt the Kenevo too rigid?

Certainly because the suspensions are not adjusted to his riding.

But it's true that 180mm is overkill here.

 

[Donnie797]

Thanks for that! I wish I could understand what the rider was saying in the video.
But if I don't use a big percentage of the suspension 90% of the time (which is very probable in my case) - why do you think I would be better pleased with the Levo? You think I could like the Kenevo less because of its greater suspension?
And I don't understand why he felt the Kenevo too rigid?

You can switch on undertitles and translation in youtube (hope that works, the quality might not be the best anyway).
I'm by far not a specialist, but every suspension works best if the whole travel is used, that's how the manufacturers have calculated their system in terms of progression, compression, damping, rebound, etc. You can tweak the parameters to your needs by adding tokens and put in a low pressure, so you use more travel and get the progression earlier. But with a low pressure, you probably have too much sag, so you're giving up a good part of the travel and this means you don't need that much travel. Then you better choose a suspension that gives you the right amount of travel.
Also the travel you don't ever use, is unnecessary weight - the Kenevo is 2kg more than the Levo.
The rider in the video said the Kenevo is more rigid to him, because he had trouble to keep it in the perfect line - he doesn't has that problem with his Levo. On the Kenevo he has to work harder - the Kenevo wants to be treated harder, so it can give you the performance it is build for. That's what he said - I've not tested it yet, but since I'm not mainly a bikepark or downhill rider and more focused on trails and smaller jumps, I still prefer the Levo. It is very capable to ride bikeparks and downhills as well, just not as fast as on the Kenevo. Not so long ago a bike with 150mm travel would be called "downhill monster".

 

[Dax]

Not so long ago a bike with 150mm travel would be called "downhill monster".

Sorry, the 90s were a really long time ago! Remember that the Levo is only 135mm on the back, if it was 150 front and rear I would probably have bought one without riding the Kenevo.

The guy that said it was too stiff did not have the right spring and amount of air, mine is super plush. The Öhlins on the back works so well, just absorbs everything without bottoming out or sagging. I mostly ride off piste trails in fod, YouTube Staunton for some examples, I won’t be using the Kenevo for much bikepark, I don’t see the point in lugging the weight when there is an uplift.

 

[Donnie797]

Sorry, the 90s were a really long time ago!

It feels like yesterday for me, but maybe I'm just too old

I don’t see the point in lugging the weight when there is an uplift.

But why would you carry more weight when never using it? It's eating more battery and you might feel it on the trail when lifting the wheels or changing lines.

The 135mm travel on the back is a good point though - the back is where Sophie needs the softness, maybe this is more important than the unused travel in the front. Really not easy that decision

 

[Dax]

But why would you carry more weight when never using it? It's eating more battery and you might feel it on the trail when lifting the wheels or changing lines.
:

Generally I find that longer travel bikes are squishier and more comfortable to ride, even if you aren't using all the travel. Shorter travel bikes tend to be more upright, more skittish and stiffer sprung to stop you blowing through the travel.

For me, I ride a 160mm trail bike when I'm not on the kenevo, I didn't want less travel than that because I use ALL the travel on occasion. I was also thinking that with the extra weight of the electric bits, more travel than less might help. The weight difference between the kenevo didn't seem to be enough to get worried about, it's like a kg unless you buy the carbon one, and even if you do, it's the only difference between a full and empty camelback.

 

[Donnie797]

Generally I find that longer travel bikes are squishier and more comfortable to ride, even if you aren't using all the travel. Shorter travel bikes tend to be more upright, more skittish and stiffer sprung to stop you blowing through the travel.

For me, I ride a 160mm trail bike when I'm not on the kenevo, I didn't want less travel than that because I use ALL the travel on occasion. I was also thinking that with the extra weight of the electric bits, more travel than less might help. The weight difference between the kenevo didn't seem to be enough to get worried about, it's like a kg unless you buy the carbon one, and even if you do, it's the only difference between a full and empty camelback.

I do totally agree on this, but we're talking about the Levo here - that's not really a short travel bike and it's well known for it's superb comfort. But you got me thinking about my actual favorite again... i ride (non-e) 150mm travel front & rear, close to the maximum pressure the shocks can handle, and do use all of the travel regularly. The 135mm rear suspension of the Levo might be a little step back for me instead of evolution... hmm... action-jackson-minime is jelling "Kenevo" a bit louder now ^^

 

[Sophie777]

You can switch on undertitles and translation in youtube (hope that works, the quality might not be the best anyway).
I'm by far not a specialist, but every suspension works best if the whole travel is used, that's how the manufacturers have calculated their system in terms of progression, compression, damping, rebound, etc. You can tweak the parameters to your needs by adding tokens and put in a low pressure, so you use more travel and get the progression earlier. But with a low pressure, you probably have too much sag, so you're giving up a good part of the travel and this means you don't need that much travel. Then you better choose a suspension that gives you the right amount of travel.
Also the travel you don't ever use, is unnecessary weight - the Kenevo is 2kg more than the Levo.
The rider in the video said the Kenevo is more rigid to him, because he had trouble to keep it in the perfect line - he doesn't has that problem with his Levo. On the Kenevo he has to work harder - the Kenevo wants to be treated harder, so it can give you the performance it is build for. That's what he said - I've not tested it yet, but since I'm not mainly a bikepark or downhill rider and more focused on trails and smaller jumps, I still prefer the Levo. It is very capable to ride bikeparks and downhills as well, just not as fast as on the Kenevo. Not so long ago a bike with 150mm travel would be called "downhill monster".

Thanks for that! That is great information!
And thanks for the YouTube tip!
The translation wasn't so great; but at one point, the rider said (according to the translation) "I am not qualified".
If he is not qualified to ride the Kenevo, then certainly I am not.
So back to thinking about the Levo again. It seems I could not go wrong with the Levo; but I could go wrong with the Kenevo.

In the video, I saw the rider go down stairs with his bike (I presume the Kenevo) a few times.
Could you ride down stairs with the Levo?

 

[R120]

Having been on the Forum ride last month with Rob on his Levo (and pretty much everyone else on Levo's! who where all pretty handy) i can tell you that you that the Levo can cane it round and off pretty much anything this side of a cliff drop without much trouble. The Kenveo really is a DH bike with single crown forks in philosophy.

 

[Donnie797]

Thanks for that! That is great information!
And thanks for the YouTube tip!
The translation wasn't so great; but at one point, the rider said (according to the translation) "I am not qualified".
If he is not qualified to ride the Kenevo, then certainly I am not.
So back to thinking about the Levo again. It seems I could not go wrong with the Levo; but I could go wrong with the Kenevo.

In the video, I saw the rider go down stairs with his bike (I presume the Kenevo) a few times.
Could you ride down stairs with the Levo?

Well, the rider in the video is not qualified regarding his skills and riding style. In your case you have to stay seated - that changes the equation and might "qualify" you for the longer travel, even if it's harder to stay in the line, but smoothening out the rough stuff better. If that 180mm suspension of the Kenevo can be fitted to your needs without loosing to much of its performance... well you gotta try it
I really think you can't go that "wrong" with either of those two bikes, so that you won't enjoy riding anymore. I guess it's just a difference you will feel in the handling on technical stuff and the speed you can go down or over the rough stuff. You will be smiling like a child anyway ^^
The Levo can go down stairs easily - i've never ridden it, but i can go down stairs on my non-suspension bike and i do it on my 150mm enduro - but i've never tried it staying seated.... because of... balls. A Levo rider has to try and tell you Wait, where's Tori?

 

[Sophie777]

In your case you have to stay seated - that changes the equation and might "qualify" you for the longer travel, even if it's harder to stay in the line, but smoothening out the rough stuff better.

The Levo can go down stairs easily - i've never ridden it, but i can go down stairs on my non-suspension bike and i do it on my 150mm enduro - but i've never tried it staying seated.... because of... balls. A Levo rider has to try and tell you Wait, where's Tori?

Those are good points. I almost forgot about the seating thing
So back to the Kenevo again

 

[R120]

Sophie what terrain are you actually riding on the bike? Are you actually going to be riding it on serious terrain, or are you looking at longer travel because you think it will be smoother riding the bike around on bridal paths/fire roads etc? I ask because its not necessarily the travel, but the suppleness and kinematics of the suspension they my be more relevant? E.G you have asked about riding up curbs/down stairs, and within reason the amount of travel isn't really relevant to that, as it seems what you want is smoothness more than anything else?

 

[Donnie797]

Those are good points. I almost forgot about the seating thing
So back to the Kenevo again

It's just fair - i'm in between those two bikes as well ^^

 

[Sophie777]

Sophie what terrain are you actually riding on the bike? Are you actually going to be riding it on serious terrain, or are you looking at longer travel because you think it will be smoother riding the bike around on bridal paths/fire roads etc? I ask because its not necessarily the travel, but the suppleness and kinematics of the suspension they my be more relevant? E.G you have asked about riding up curbs/down stairs, and within reason the amount of travel isn't really relevant to that, as it seems what you want is smoothness more than anything else?

No, not serious or technical terrain. Yes bridle paths/fire roads, grass, parks (a trail like this, but I would not be riding as fast: ). Maybe riding down stairs... I asked that question about stairs, because I supposed if a Levo could ride down stairs, its suspension may be enough for me.

The first thing I'm looking for is stability - riding unpaved surfaces causes me to lose control when the bike rides over rough stuff, curbs, roots, …
That's how I crashed and totalled my carbon Specialized Diverge on my first ride out of the bike shop: - riding from the road with some loose gravel over the curb and unto the sidewalk caused my bike to shake/vibrate - I couldn't overcome that because I could only keep sitting; the vibrations and shaking were transferred to my lower torso, and so I lost my balance and fell.

People told me for stability over irregular surfaces I should get a full-suspension bike; again I am unable to stand on the pedals to deal with bumps, rough surfaces, potholes...
Apparently, suspension also increases grip.
But as Donnie797 pointed out, with the Kenevo it may be harder to keep the bike in a straight line or ride with precision, because of the greater suspension.

So although intuitively for me it seemed more suspension is better, that may not be the case.
I may have to choose between 2 trade-offs:
1. Levo - easier to control the bike and ride in a straight line
2. Kenevo - greater stability over bumps, due to its longer and better suspension.


(And I would never get a carbon bike again, or even a bike that is part carbon).

 

[Donnie797]

But as Donnie797 pointed out, with the Kenevo it may be harder to keep the bike in a straight line or ride with precision, because of the greater suspension.

So although intuitively for me it seemed more suspension is better, that may not be the case.
I may have to choose between 2 trade-offs:
1. Levo - easier to control the bike and ride in a straight line
2. Kenevo - greater stability over bumps, due to its longer and better suspension.

Sophie, i haven't ridden the Levo and Kenevo myself, so it was just what the regular average trail-riding guy in that video above has told. You surely can ride in a straigt line with the Kenevo without the slightest problem He said he has to work harder to keep the Kenevo on the line (not a "straight line" - he meant the "perfect line" through the trail). So when you have to align your front wheel to hit that exact spot between two roots or next to a rock, that might be easier on the Levo cause it's more nimble, while you have to put in a bit more effort for those microadjustments on the Kenevo. Don't think you can't ride the Kenevo - it surely will work fine, and probably you just ride over those rocks and roots, that you tried to avoid with the Levo

 

[eFat]

I may have to choose between 2 trade-offs:
1. Levo - easier to control the bike and ride in a straight line
2. Kenevo - greater stability over bumps, due to its longer and better suspension.

These differences may appear on rough terrain at high speed. In the example video above any will do the job.

In another post you mentioned Devinci, could be a good choice for you as a "local" company.

Which brands sells your nearest store?

 

[Sophie777]

Don't think you can't ride the Kenevo - it surely will work fine, and probably you just ride over those rocks and roots, that you tried to avoid with the Levo

Sorry, I guess I didn't fully understand what you said.
It would be good if I could just ride over those rocks, roots,...

 

[Sophie777]

These differences may appear on rough terrain at high speed. In the example video above any will do the job.

In another post you mentioned Devinci, could be a good choice for you as a "local" company.

Which brands sells your nearest store?

Nearby bike shops offer both Devinci and Specialized. Unfortunately, can't find these e-bikes in shop - need to order.
Devinci AC XT seems equivalent to the Kenevo, apparently better fork and shock, better dropper post (that is non-tilting), has a display, and about $2500 CAN cheaper than the Kenevo. Not sure though about the Shimano motor - I have read descriptions that it is "harsh", "abrupt", "jolting", when starting or stopping.

 

[R120]

The Shimano is probably the smoothest motor, especially in Trail mode which responds and varies the power based on your input. From what you describe the De Vinci DC, with 160mm travel, in the basic version, would be a much better bike for you than either the Levo or Kenevo. If you got a Kenevo or the Devinci AC, you are getting a bike designed really for pounding downhill tracks at full pelt. The Levo and Devinci DC are more trail bikes, and the DC has more travel. From the sounds of it much cheaper too, unlike in UK where priced similar to specialised.

 

[eFat]

Devinci AC XT seems equivalent to the Kenevo, apparently better fork and shock, better dropper post (that is non-tilting), has a display, and about $2500 CAN cheaper than the Kenevo. Not sure though about the Shimano motor - I have read descriptions that it is "harsh", "abrupt", "jolting", when starting or stopping.

Unless you find the available colors horrible, with this price difference the choice is easy!

And like R120, I would say that the DC XT is the best choice for you.

As for the Shimano motor, maybe it was a bit like this at the beginning (didn't hear many complains though) but there have been updates and you have also an app to tune it to your liking.

I think the motor should not dictate the choice of a bike, they are all "good".

 

[Sophie777]

The Shimano is probably the smoothest motor, especially in Trail mode which responds and varies the power based on your input. From what you describe the De Vinci DC, with 160mm travel, in the basic version, would be a much better bike for you than either the Levo or Kenevo. If you got a Kenevo or the Devinci AC, you are getting a bike designed really for pounding downhill tracks at full pelt. The Levo and Devinci DC are more trail bikes, and the DC has more travel. From the sounds of it much cheaper too, unlike in UK where priced similar to specialised.

Thanks for your interesting comments!
I may in the end go with a Devinci DC.

 

[Sophie777]

Unless you find the available colors horrible, with this price difference the choice is easy!

And like R120, I would say that the DC XT is the best choice for you.

As for the Shimano motor, maybe it was a bit like this at the beginning (didn't hear many complains though) but there have been updates and you have also an app to tune it to your liking.

I think the motor should not dictate the choice of a bike, they are all "good".

Thanks for your input.
I have heard that before - one should not choose a bike based on the motor.

 

[SteveVentoux]

@Donnie797 Yep, that's exactly why I went Levo, I'm an experienced rider but never take huge risks descending, the Kenevo would have been wasted on me. Would love to have one as well as the Levo if money was no object though, just for the hell of it, much better looking bike!

 

[Donnie797]

I do choose my bike based on the motor as well, it's one part with the frame, so you can't change it afterwards. For me it's important how the motor feels (and engages and decouples) and what I can tweak with the software myself. But I'm a tech freak

 

[davegixer]

I collected the Kenevo yesterday.

Got it home and did a quick cockpit and seat-height set-up, then went for a blast. Only did a couple of hours, 25K ish, but what a bike! I just couldn't stop grinning.

Put my new Crank Brothers Mallets on today, new cleats in the shoes and went for another quick 2 hours. Seriously, what a bloomin bike! I've never, ever had so much fun going UP hill! I mostly rode single track, and was't bothered if I was going up or down, what a hoot.

I need to learn to ride an E bike though, it's obviously different to a standard MTB in so many (better) ways, but being heavier means things like manuals, hops and slower-speed jumps need a rethink - I can't just muscle it around like before. Pedal/power wheelies (when riding hard and approaching an obstacle for instance) need a little more foresight too as I need to get acquainted with how-quickly the motor will help me and when it won't.
But, absolutely no complaints from me, just my lack of Ebike talent.

The bike itself is all I could have hoped it would be, suspension, travel, geometry. Man those tyres are FAT. Seriously wide bars too. And the seat post that seems to raise understandable concerns with those who haven't tried it, was spot on. So far anyway.

Apologies for the blurry picture, I had the Quadlock dust cover on the phone (and forgot it takes sh*t pictures with it on).

 

[Donnie797]

Yeaah, grats Dave!
Please let me/us know about your progress - i can't wait to get mine on friday and test in on my hometrails! For sure it will need some training to get used to the new bike and the weight and the motor assist on the tricky technical stuff...

I've already ordered car protection foil, 2 front-mudhuggers (hope i can attach one to the rear - totally forgot that the Kenevo doesn't have a connection between the seat-stays ^^) and a specialized jersey. Can't ride the Kenevo with my Ghost jersey ^^
Waiting for the EMTB jerseys to be available again.. need more jerseys for that bike

Will you add some kind of protection, too?

 

[davegixer]

Yeaah, grats Dave!
Please let me/us know about your progress - i can't wait to get mine on friday and test in on my hometrails! For sure it will need some training to get used to the new bike and the weight and the motor assist on the tricky technical stuff...

I've already ordered car protection foil, 2 front-mudhuggers (hope i can attach one to the rear - totally forgot that the Kenevo doesn't have a connection between the seat-stays ^^) and a specialized jersey. Can't ride the Kenevo with my Ghost jersey ^^
Waiting for the EMTB jerseys to be available again.. need more jerseys for that bike

Will you add some kind of protection, too?

It's an amazing bike Donnie, I know you've ridden it so I bet you can't wait for Friday. Ad I can imagine you have some pretty incredible trails around your neck of the woods...

Yeh, I'm waiting for the jerseys to be back in stock too, I can see me riding as often as physically possible. I can absolutely understand what everyone means now, so much fun!

I'm not sure about protection, I don't tend to add protection to the paint as it is going to get knocks and dings, but I did look at battery and motor protection, however the battery looks like it has a lot of heavy plastic protection already. I'll take another look at it this week and decide. Might start a thread and see if anyone has damaged the battery or motor yet?

What have you decided on, for protection? The paintwork or motor/battery?

 

[Donnie797]

Might start a thread and see if anyone has damaged the battery or motor yet?
What have you decided on, for protection? The paintwork or motor/battery?

Yes, a new thread would be good.

For the trails around my hometown i wouldn't apply protection foil, but riding trails in the swiss alps made parts of my frame of the non-e bike looking like it was under machinegun fire. Nothing a bit of paint can't fix, but i want to protect the Kenevo from that a bit. So the foil goes on the chainstays, seatstays, seattube and maybe on some parts of the shock link (if i can't mount a mudhugger in the rear).

In the front i do need a mudguard to protect my face and the action cam ^^ - ordered the mudhugger for that cause i think it looks good and offers a good protection.

I will see if i can mount another mudhugger (front) on the rear to protect the shock link, seat tube and the back of the motor - and especially that mysterious hole in the motor from getting filled with mud.