Hard shifting during ascent

[RichT]

I’m finding its a lot easier to shift smoothly/quietly when upshifting while starting down a hill than downshifting on a hill climb. My theory is that the drivetrain is still rotating under power for a revolution ot two after you stop pedaling causing the hard shifting while climbing even after a brief pause in pedaling. Not an issue starting down a hill but creates a time crunch (and gear crunch) when starting an ascent. Does this sound about right? If so it seems all I can do os slow down and downshift before the hill but I’d also like to keep momentum as much as possible. This is probably just me adjusting to an e-bike, but…Ideas?

 

[Zimmerframe]

Morse Code ?

 

[RichT]

Morse Code ?

composing - done now. Apparently you can’t just delete a thread. At least I cant.

 

[Zimmerframe]

I normally just click on "report" and say "oops, I've fecked up can you delete this please" ..

or tag @Moderator and say "hey, can you tidy this thread please" ...

Or "bambam posted something without lady flesh I think his account has been hacked"

 

[Zimmerframe]

In answering the thread .. when you're going down hill, unless you're trying to accelerate really hard or you're in Turbo and still below the assistance cut off, then there will be a LOT less force on the gears/chain than when going up hill.

Up hill takes a while for the subconscious/muscle memory to learn to adjust to easing off the amount of power you're inputting just before you change gear. This is different for each mode and each motor (brose/bosch/shimano for example). You don't have to stop pedalling entirely, the torque sensor picks up how much force you're applying and contributes the relevant amount of assistance from the motor, you want it ideally to be contributing as close to zero just as you change gears and then you increase your force again.

It also varies between each gear slightly with different chain wrap, but that's getting picky. At first it feels slightly unnatural adjusting, especially as a lot of the motors have a degree of overrun built into them to help you over obstacles whilst timing your cranks.

 

[RichT]

In answering the thread .. when you're going down hill, unless you're trying to accelerate really hard or you're in Turbo and still below the assistance cut off, then there will be a LOT less force on the gears/chain than when going up hill.

Up hill takes a while for the subconscious/muscle memory to learn to adjust to easing off the amount of power you're inputting just before you change gear. This is different for each mode and each motor (brose/bosch/shimano for example). You don't have to stop pedalling entirely, the torque sensor picks up how much force you're applying and contributes the relevant amount of assistance from the motor, you want it ideally to be contributing as close to zero just as you change gears and then you increase your force again.

It also varies between each gear slightly with different chain wrap, but that's getting picky. At first it feels slightly unnatural adjusting, especially as a lot of the motors have a degree of overrun built into them to help you over obstacles whilst timing your cranks.

This makes sense - the overrun being part of it but also the torque sensor keeping the assist at a higher level during the shift. I guess its a matter of finesse. Definitely a lot different than riding an old analog road bike. I’ll try to ease up to reduce the torque demand, rather than just briefly stopping pedaling to shift. I’ve been wondering why it still shifts hard even when I stopped pedaling but I see how that would be the overrun combined with a higher torque level when pedaling up a hill. Sometimes I just give up and let it shift hard but I know that’s not the best idea.

 

[RustyIron]

This is probably just me adjusting to an e-bike, but…Ideas?

You know when you're driving your 1915 truck with straight cut gears and you have to double clutch it while shifting? Think of riding your eMTB the same way.

Actually, shifting under load on an eMTB isn't substantially different than shifting under load on an aMTB... or your 1915 truck.

Before shifting, stomp like crazy to pick up a little speed. Now slow your cadence so the bike is traveling faster than you're pedaling, shift, and increase power.

 

[Mikerb]

@RustyIron has it right in the last paragraph but it also helps to be predictive...ie change to an appropriate gear at the bottom of the climb even if that feels too low to start with.

What kit you have also makes a difference. My GX AXS on GX 10/50 cassette is invariably quiet and needs only very momentary easing up of torque.........I think it is the speed of change by the AXS that makes the difference.

 

[RichT]

@RustyIron has it right in the last paragraph but it also helps to be predictive...ie change to an appropriate gear at the bottom of the climb even if that feels too low to start with.

What kit you have also makes a difference. My GX AXS on GX 10/50 cassette is invariably quiet and needs only very momentary easing up of torque.........I think it is the speed of change by the AXS that makes the difference.

I now have the GX AXS upgrade and its better but not what I’d hoped and I figured I still needed to work on my riding skills.

 

[RichT]

You know when you're driving your 1915 truck with straight cut gears and you have to double clutch it while shifting? Think of riding your eMTB the same way.

Actually, shifting under load on an eMTB isn't substantially different than shifting under load on an aMTB... or your 1915 truck.

Before shifting, stomp like crazy to pick up a little speed. Now slow your cadence so the bike is traveling faster than you're pedaling, shift, and increase power.

This sounds good - I’ll try the “stomp like crazy - then slow the cadence” method as soon as it stops raining. The first municipal fire engine I learned to drive was a 1958 Crown Firecoach, so I get the analogy. On those you also had to use the jake to bring down the rpm when downshifting going up a grade and if you didn’t time it just right, and couldn’t match road speed to engine speed, you’d have to stop and start over. It’s almost too easy these days.

 

[RustyIron]

When my life goes downhill it’s always because of women.

When it goes up it’s because of lack of women.

Perhaps it's time to embrace the obvious.

 

[steve_sordy]

When I am powering uphill and need to shift to an easier gear (usually because I have made some sort of error), I just know that I will either lose momentum because I've backed off the power, or I will crunch the gears if I don't back off. I am psychologically incapable of crunching a gear, so I used to end up losing momentum. But the big bonus you get with an emtb is that you can shift the power available with the mode switch. That provides the smooth temporary speed boost that allows me to back off the power, shift gear smoothly and then drop back the mode. No crunching, no loss of momentum. I was very pleased with myself when I discovered that.

 

[RichT]

I like that - combined with the “stomp like crazy” method, this should help. I practiced a bit yesterday and realized its as much self discipline and planning as it is skill and ability. My difficulty comes when on an ascent that includes an increasing grade, so the initial chosen gear is no longer right for the hill and any slowing really detracrs from the effort. But using turbo while “stomping like crazy” might just give me time to shift with a little more finesse. Hope so because self discipline really isn’t on the menu.

 

[RustyIron]

My difficulty comes when on an ascent that includes an increasing grade, so the initial chosen gear is no longer right for the hill and any slowing really detracrs from the effort.

If it makes you feel any better, that's the same problem encountered by everyone who swung his leg over a saddle. The difference is that the pro will quickly solve the problem and continue shredding. Mere mortals like you and me might bobble and make some clunky shifts. It's all part of the fun.

 

[Mikerb]

Thats not a problem on trails you know and have done before ( or should not be) .............but if it is a new climb challenge and you are not able to back off enough to change gear smoothly you have a choice to make.............risk wrecking your cassette/chain or get off and push!! We have all been there. You cannot get it right all the time.

 

[Downhillr]

I’m finding its a lot easier to shift smoothly/quietly when upshifting while starting down a hill than downshifting on a hill climb. My theory is that the drivetrain is still rotating under power for a revolution ot two after you stop pedaling causing the hard shifting while climbing even after a brief pause in pedaling. Not an issue starting down a hill but creates a time crunch (and gear crunch) when starting an ascent. Does this sound about right? If so it seems all I can do os slow down and downshift before the hill but I’d also like to keep momentum as much as possible. This is probably just me adjusting to an e-bike, but…Ideas?

When I first got e-bike I blew a chain on hard shift uphill, learned to light-pedal, backing off torque (not stop pedaling) for those steeper uphill shifts… no chain or driveline issues since.

 

[Binhill1]

Morse Code ?

.... .. __.. .. __ __ Never thought I would need to use this again .

 

[Binhill1]

If I hit a steep bit and in way too high a gear I just get off. It doesn't happen often enough to be a problem but better than breaking a chain or tooth on gearing.

 

[RichT]

.... .. _._. .. __ __ Never thought I would need to use this again .

Hicimm?

 

[RichT]

If I hit a steep bit and in way too high a gear I just get off. It doesn't happen often enough to be a problem but better than breaking a chain or tooth on gearing.

I’ve been applying these pointers as they‘ve been added to this thread, and the last time out included a bit more patience (which I seem to somewhat lack), and things are going much more smoothly. I don’t remember ever encountering this pre-ebike, at least not to this degree, so I’m guessing it is due to the extra torque and “run on”.

 

[irie]

I’ve been applying these pointers as they‘ve been added to this thread, and the last time out included a bit more patience (which I seem to somewhat lack), and things are going much more smoothly. I don’t remember ever encountering this pre-ebike, at least not to this degree, so I’m guessing it is due to the extra torque and “run on”.

eBike drive trains are regular acoustic/analog cycle drive trains so given the extra power of eBike motors extra mechanical sympathy is required if you want to get decent life out of the chain, derailleur, and cassette.

 

[Binhill1]

Hicimm?

Should have been __.. instead of _._. out of touch been 50 years Changed original.

 

[Binhill1]

I’ve been applying these pointers as they‘ve been added to this thread, and the last time out included a bit more patience (which I seem to somewhat lack), and things are going much more smoothly. I don’t remember ever encountering this pre-ebike, at least not to this degree, so I’m guessing it is due to the extra torque and “run on”.

I wouldnt have attempted to do some of the steeps I do now before i had a ebike or never managed them

 

[RichT]

Should have been __.. instead of _._. out of touch been 50 years Changed original.

Even after I corrected it, it took me a minute….

 

[Binhill1]

Even after I corrected it, it took me a minute….

Did it out of memory so I forgive myself.

 

[Binhill1]

I’ve been applying these pointers as they‘ve been added to this thread, and the last time out included a bit more patience (which I seem to somewhat lack), and things are going much more smoothly. I don’t remember ever encountering this pre-ebike, at least not to this degree, so I’m guessing it is due to the extra torque and “run on”.

First cassette and chain didn't last long ìts definitely a learning curve .