H15 brake upgrades

[BumblebeeTuna]

I picked up my Rise H15 about two weeks ago. This is my first ebike but far from my first mtb. I seriously love this bike. It’s amazing in almost* every way. The one major complaint I have about it is the brakes. They’re dangerously bad.
I’ve never upgraded my brakes before, but this bike needs it, and I need some help. My bike has center lock hubs and I would like to start by upgrading my pads, then rotors. From there, if necessary, I’ll do a complete swap.
What I’m trying to figure out is if I need emtb specific rotors. I’m also looking for any recommendations as far as what rotors to get and what pads to get to start with.
Thanks in advance!!

 

[GMLS]

I have the M20 and noticed the difference after coming off Magura MT7's. I increased the rotors to 203mm and that was enough for me (75kg).Try that, then change pads if not enough and if you need more go for 4 pots and none of the previous will ve wasted.

 

[RustyIron]

You don't need "emtb specific rotors." Frankly, I don't even know what would make a rotor eMTB specific. Regardless, the best bang for your buck in regards to brakes is to increase the size of your rotors. 200 or 203 is the standard nowadays. Since your'e running Shimano, their IceTech rotors are nice. I wouldn't expect to see a dramatic difference by just changing pads.

You didn't ask, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't mention that the M6100 are mid-grade brakes. Orbea's web site says you probably have those. If you're on a budget, 4 piston XT's are good. Personally, I'd go with Magura MT7. But no matter what, definitely go to bigger rotors.

 

[BumblebeeTuna]

Thanks for this. The “emtb specific” terminology seem to just mean thicker(2mm and up) rotors. I first noticed it on the galfer wave rotors and saw it again somewhere else. Thought it was strange, but I’m new to ebikes so figured I’d ask

 

[Funks]

JagWire LR2-E pro rotors (#DCR093) - made for eBikes as it has a magnet. 203mm, Centerlock

 

[benzy]

My baseless estimates going from the stock 2 piston Deore > 4 piston M5x0s > XT 4 piston 8120:

• Essentially no change between the Deore 2 piston and 4 piston M5x0 with resin pads, 180 rotors.
• ~10-15% more braking power from the M5x0s to the XTs w/finned pads and 180 rotors mostly due to the finned pad in the rear not overheating.
• Another 20-30% changing 180 rotors to 203 CT ice tech rotors and XT finned pads.

My take is rotor size is the most impactful change. Haven't tried ceramic pads yet, but they did improve my commuter setup substantially.

 

[beholdtheflesh]

Up the size in the front to 203 first. That made a big difference for me. And it's cheaper than other options. The stock 180mm front rotor on my H15 was resin-pads-only (the rear EM600 was not).

Keep in mind if you decide to change the rear rotor, you need a shimano rotor with an integrated magnet. I kept my rear the same size, but upgraded to the XT with the ice-tech fins.

If that + metal pads is not enough, then go for a 4-piston - the M520s and M6120s are the same just with a different label: Review: Shimano MT520 Brakes are an Affordable 4-Piston Option for Enduro

I think you can just buy the calipers, since your stock levers and hoses will work for those two 4-piston calipers. If you get SLX or XT calipers the hoses are not compatible.

 

[Malicefox]

I think you can just buy the calipers, since your stock levers and hoses will work for those two 4-piston calipers. If you get SLX or XT calipers the hoses are not compatible.

Can confirm since this is what i did. i pulled the 6100 calipers off and replaced with the 6120. Also upped the front to 203mm. Made a quite noticible difference for me. Im 220lbs fully kitted and stopping is significantly improved.

 

[Erjabato]

I am missing my analog bike SLX BR-M7120 calipers in the Rise.
Has anyone pulled the 6100 calipers off and replaced with Magura MT7 or MT5 calipers? I have read good things from "Shigura" brakes, but I am not sure what calipers to buy.

 

[Funks]

I am missing my analog bike SLX BR-M7120 calipers in the Rise.
Has anyone pulled the 6100 calipers off and replaced with Magura MT7 or MT5 calipers? I have read good things from "Shigura" brakes, but I am not sure what calipers to buy.

Hmmm, why do you think the BR-M7120 gives you more stopping power than the BR-M6120 or the BR-MT520's? The XT, SLX, Deore and the MT520's have the same size ceramic pistons.

The BR-M6120's (BR-MT520s) are a direct swap, just make sure you run the right pads (non-resin).

 

[benzy]

Hmmm, why do you think the BR-M7120 gives you more stopping power than the BR-M6120 or the BR-MT520's? The XT, SLX, Deore and the MT520's have the same size ceramic pistons.

The BR-M6120's (BR-MT520s) are a direct swap, just make sure you run the right pads (non-resin).

I think all these brakes from shimano being equivalent is a meme. Each model works in 95% of conditions. It’s the 5% that makes things go sideways. Pads, hose rigidity and diameter, can it accept finned pads, resin pads, metallic pads, ceramic pads, which rotors are you using, rotor diameter, is one caliper less durable to extreme conditions, etc etc. Materials matter. Not just for weight.

You don’t notice deficiencies until pushed to the brink. And often you can remain under the brink witn a 1-2% gain .

 

[Erjabato]

Hmmm, why do you think the BR-M7120 gives you more stopping power than the BR-M6120 or the BR-MT520's? The XT, SLX, Deore and the MT520's have the same size ceramic pistons.

The BR-M6120's (BR-MT520s) are a direct swap, just make sure you run the right pads (non-resin).

Thank you Funks.
I am actually comparing BR-M6100 calipers that came in my H15 with my previous BR-M7120. So I am considering (apart from the 203mm brake rotor that I upgraded in the front already), to chage calipers. The 3 options I am considering are: BR-M6120, BR-M7120 and Magura M5. That is why I asked.
By the way, the price doubled for SLX brakes in couple of years (at least in Europe)....

 

[Funks]

Thank you Funks.
I am actually comparing BR-M6100 calipers that came in my H15 with my previous BR-M7120. So I am considering (apart from the 203mm brake rotor that I upgraded in the front already), to chage calipers. The 3 options I am considering are: BR-M6120, BR-M7120 and Magura M5. That is why I asked.
By the way, the price doubled for SLX brakes in couple of years (at least in Europe)....

BR-MT520s are the same calipers as the BR-M6120. Money saved IMO should go towards pads, the MTX gold pads work for me, and won’t make one go nuts with the screeching like Shimano Sintered Pads. Installation is pretty much plug and play as well (albeit, you'll have to perform a bleed) as it also uses straight fittings just like the BR-M6100 (2-piston Deore) so no need to hose-swap to get one with a banjo on the end.

 

[Funks]

I think all these brakes from shimano being equivalent is a meme. Each model works in 95% of conditions. It’s the 5% that makes things go sideways. Pads, hose rigidity and diameter, can it accept finned pads, resin pads, metallic pads, ceramic pads, which rotors are you using, rotor diameter, is one caliper less durable to extreme conditions, etc etc. Materials matter. Not just for weight.

You don’t notice deficiencies until pushed to the brink. And often you can remain under the brink witn a 1-2% gain .

The BR-M6120 ( aka BR-MT520) use the same hose (BH90 officially) as the BR-M7120 and the BR-M8120. You can use the ceramic pistons and O-Rings from the MT-520 to repair the BR-7120 or the BR-M8120 calipers.

Only thing arguably better about BR-M7120 and the BR-M8120 is that they don’t use a cotter pin but use a screw to keep the pads in place. Something that can be retrofitted on the BR-MT520's (BR-M6120s) with a 4mmX0.7 tap and a pair of Y8JZ98010 (screw w/ clip). As for the ICE-TECH pads, better aftermarket ones are available. Finally, the BR-MT520's are compatible with the D02S sintered pads as well (not just resin).

Seems like the life expectancy of a Shimano caliper is about two years, they usually end up leaking, or cracking a piston and there aren't any replacement parts available (seals, or pistons from Shimano) so not sure why people want to spend a lot more for the XT.

 

[Erjabato]

Good explanation Funks!
Thanks. Let's see what I am able to find with 4 pistons here at a reasonable price.
I had ordered already a banjo for BR-M7120 calipers, but I will widen my search for BR-M6120 / BR-MT520 too!

 

[Erjabato]

I have finally ordered a BR-MT520 for the rear, to avoid fighting with the break hose, and due to prices, that have duplicated compared to 2020 when I bought a pair of SLX (7120) for my analog bike!!!

 

[Longfellow78]

I upgraded my m6100 brakes to 7120, bought them from a German retailer calipers and levers separately. Very reasonable prices, almost half of UK retail. I think it was r2 bike. Slx are identical to xt except for the bit point adjust which you can add with a cheap grub screw. Awesome.

 

[jonmat]

My 2021 Wild FS H25 came with Shimano MT501 BR520 4 pot entry level with 203mm Shimano 2mm thick discs front and rear. I have always been incredibly impressed with the calliper's stopping power. 18 months later I still have the same brakes, just to be sure, I am no lightweight at 103KG and I'd guess fully laden with spares, tools a litre and a half of water we are well over 130KG. There are some really long steep hills coming in and out of Sheffield where I live. I have never had the brakes fade on me once. Very easy to pull on and I can make the front tyre squeal like a piggy if really snatching them on hard. I have used the standard Shimano pads but am currently running these Uberbike E-Matrix Shimano New Saint M810-M820/ Zee M640 D02 D03 E-Bike / Endurance Disc Brake Pads (uberbikecomponents.com) which I rate highly. The reason I changed to these pads is that Shimano originals went through the roof price wise, during lock down, £36 WTF! However they are better pads than the Shimano D03's. I have changed the discs now as the Shimano hubs that came with the bike were crap, not even sealed bearings. Why would you put unsealed bearings on a mountain bike? So I now have Hope Pro4 hub wheels and 6 bolt 203 mm disc's, but they are just plain old everyday 2mm Shimano's. I think some people need to give their head a shake with the expensive brakes, probably more geared up for a pro rider with factory backing. They don't pay of course, just my opinion and I hope I'm allowed one.