Got a second wheelset for my Turbo Levo

[rsilvers]

Wrote it up here:

Second Wheel Set for Turbo Levo – Matter-Replicator

 

[Zimmerframe]

Nice !

 

[Gary]

Those are a full pound heavier than my actual DH wheelsets.

 

[rsilvers]

Those are a full pound heavier than my actual DH wheelsets.

I would like to know what the stock wheels weigh. Not sure what you have, but these are about 300-400g combined heavier than a typical $600 wheel set of the same 35mm inner width and use alloy nipples rather than brass like these. Aluminum nipples are strong until they corrode. But I have already dented the stock rim, so I am not against more durability.

 

[Gary]

I've got 20ish of sets of wheels. (10 bikes and more than one wheelset for a few)
none of my wheelsets are over about 2050g the pair.
I can't possibly list them all but basically I run good quality decent weight sealed bearing hubs (around 180g front/300-350g rear). pretty much always built with 32 hole and SS DB spokes and brass nipples and 500g ish rims keeping them mostly all well under 2000g a pair except for my DH wheels - 4 sets all with rims at around 570g (Which I'll admit ers on the lighter side for a DH rim) but they're only a smidge over 2050g.

I also build wheels (professionally) BTW
I'm just surprised at the weight of your wheels for an all round bike. Even cheap factory built OEM wheels I have are about 400g less than what you've had built
Are you a particularly heavy or rowdy rider?

Denting rims (unless you're a DH rider smashing through rock gardens weekly) generally says to me the rider is not running enough tyre pressure. (there are exceptions)

 

[rsilvers]

It is true that my rims would not have been dented had I ran more tire pressure.

These rims claim to be 580g front and 620g back. So does that mean the hubs are the heavy part? I don't think Boost 148 adds much weight.

As for cheap factory OEM wheels, they will be narrow and use less aluminum in the rims. I had the option of narrow rims and didn't want them.

What do the stock wheels weigh without cassette or rotors?

 

[Gary]

rims, hubs and spokes are all a little heavy. It all adds up.
Interesting that your rear rim is heavier. but probably makes some sense.
The cheap OEM wheels I was referring to have 30mm internal rim width. 25-30mm isn't actually narrow it's pretty much the optimum width for the tyre widths I run (2.3-2.5). and isn't that a 2.5 Assegai you're running?
Alloy grade and rim design/construction makes a big difference to strength, stiffness and durability too so don't assume just because your rims are heavier they're automatically stronger, more durable or contain more aluminium or have thicker walls. softer alloys can be more durable/less brittle too (and vice versa). and a rim denting on the trail is generally more welcome than one cracking/splitting and failing completely.

 

[rsilvers]

So my rims are: 580+620g (and you said 570g is light for downhill rims)
Spokes are 218+218g
Nipples are 64g
Tape is 20g or less I think.
So that comes to 1720g, not counting the hubs.

If my total units are 2478g, then my hubs are 758g total, if that is possible.

A Boost 148 hubset from a lower cost brand like Industry 9 is 566g.

So I do have about 200g unaccounted for.

 

[Gary]

Yeah.
Your hubs (particularly the rear) seem to be the main reason for the high weight penalty.
A steel freehub body would account for a fair chunk

 

[rsilvers]

Yes, it seems like the more expensive wheels are 6069 alloy rather than 6061. Still, a $400 wheel set like Stans Arch S1 is 6061 like mine. My manual bike has Arc 30 rims and they are 6069, but I think I paid $600 for those wheels.

As for inner-rim width and optimal tire size, that depends if you get the new WT tires or not that are optimized for wider rims. Something no less than 30mm and no more than 35mm seems ideal. As for if I should have ordered these with the 30mm inner width instead of 35? Maybe. According to their spec sheet, that would have saved 115 grams total.

Wide Trail (WT) Design | Maxxis Tires USA

And the Assegai with DD casing is a very heavy tire, but I knew that.

 

[Gary]

(and you said 570g is light for downhill rims)

to put that statement into perspective a fair few factory supported world cup racers use 500-510g rims... and 630g ish is pretty much as heavy as any WC DH bike will have these days.
Bear in mind WC racers smash through rocks a little faster than the average emtb rider

Aaron Gwin is on fire with no tyre!

500g DT EX471 rim in tact


Yeah. I have a couple of WT 2.5 DHFs. They're all good on a 30mm rim

 

[rsilvers]

I just did a sanity check and weighed my stock front wheel with Eddy Current tire (2735g) and this new wheel with Assegai tire (2766g). I know the rotors are within 5g of each other. Not sure how much sealant is in each. So the new front is ~31g more. The stock wheels also have 2mm non-butted spokes, and I assume brass nipples.

Maxxis claims 1,305g for their tire. Eddy Current is a claimed 1350g. So if accurate, the new front has a 45g advantage. So not counting the tire, the new from wheel is ~76g heavier.

But, the stock wheel is 30mm width, and we already know that it costs 58g per wheel to go to 35mm.

So not counting extra width, the new one is ~18g heavier, assuming they have the same amount of sealant, and I am not sure if they do or not.

So from what I can tell, at least for the front, this new wheel set is about the same weight as stock, aside from the difference in width.

So if someone wants to get an "upgrade" wheel set, this is not it. Spend more like $600 to get the 6069 alloy and lighter hubs and double-butted spokes. If someone wants a second wheel set for winter use like I did that is about like stock, you could probably get a take-off actual stock wheel set for $250+shipping from someone who spent $600 to upgrade theirs.

 

[rsilvers]

500g DT EX471 rim in tact

I just went to Wheelbuilder and selected EX471 and DT350 hubs. $861 plus shipping. For sure there are sweet wheels for 3x the cost. I just wanted a second set of wheels to use Ice Spiker tires for winter. Problem is, most cheap wheels are narrow and/or not Boost 148. I probably should have picked 30mm though, but I have two sets of that and thought I would have one set of 35. But if I could pick one wheel width to own, I would go with 30mm.

 

[Gary]

quoted tyre weights won't be accurate.

Weighing 2 identical brand new maxxis tyres there can be a 20-50g difference between the two

You don't need to spend anywhere near $600 to get lighter off the shelf wheels £100-200 is about the starting point if you're patient enough to wait for something discounted heavily from one of the big online stores.

DB 2.0/1.8 spokes will save you around 50g for an increase in price of £20-30
lighter rims are available at the same price point as you've bought. as will hubs.
simply pay attention to ALL the weights when specing your wheel build components.

I happen to have the set of OEM wheels from my emtb sat right here. (Novatec boost hubs on 27.5 WTB i29 rims PG 2.0 spokes) complete with tyres 2.4 DHRII/2.35 Magic Mary, >120g of sealant in each, rim tape, 200mm SRAM centreline 6 bolt rotors, 12x steel rotor bolts, 11 speed SLX 11-40 cassette and Shimano wheel magnet. I just weighed them for comparison.
Weights are 2029g front and 2799g rear.
At a guess that's going to be around 1.5kg lighter overall than your set-up and holds up fine under an ageing overweight ex-DH racer. I actually hate how a super heavy draggy wheelset feels on my Emtb though. The lighter combined wheelset pretty much transforms the bike from a sluggish pig to a far more maneouverable playful poppy bike

DT 350 hubs are not their highest end model
I just used the 471 as an example of what a 500g rim can withstand. It's one of DTs premium rims so has a premium price. Other decent 30mm rims will be available around the 500g mark a lot cheaper than those. Infact DT make plenty OEM wheels at far far cheaper pricepoints with similar weight rims. these are often for found for sale online hugely discounted (less than your wheelbuild) and are pretty good value for money. Learn how to build/true wheels and you can tension them yourself making an overall stronger stiffer build.
Avoid straightpull spoke hubs though. they're a PITA to true.

 

[rsilvers]

You don't need to spend anywhere near $600 to get lighter off the shelf wheels £100-200 is about the starting point if you're patient enough to wait for something discounted heavily from one of the big online stores.

There is nothing at all like that. I mean really, there is zero below $260 USD. And if there is, it will be narrow rims (under 29mm) and won't be Boost 148. I am sure on some black Friday sale in the past someone got a good deal on a wheelset

More on width. From a very recent MBTR article “Many observers believe the majority of riders of all stripes will settle on 2.4 to 2.6 tires fitted to wheels with internal rim widths of 30mm or 35mm, with a lean toward the latter. The Ibis 942 and 742 (35mm internal) rims, for example, outsell their narrower 29mm cousins by 9 to 1.”

I know DT350 are not high-end. I picked them because they were not, and the wheels were still $900.

Here is a typical example - 1lb less per set but more than double the price: Industry Nine Enduro-S Hydra 29" Wheel | Jenson USA

 

[Gary]

 

[rsilvers]

Here you go. $2400 wheels and 1800 grams. Almost 700g lighter than mine for $2100 more, or $3 per gram.

[Tested] crankbrothers Synthesis E11 Carbon Wheelset

 

[rsilvers]

I got the studded tires mounted. Much better on wet wooden bridges than Assegai.

Also I weighed the stock wheels. They are 121 grams lighter than the 30mm version of my new ones. Stock has 20 pawl engagement and the new one is 36. My new XT cassette is 90g lighter than the stock NX, so that comes within 1oz of making up for the wheels.

 

[Gary]

Here you go. $2400 wheels and 1800 grams. Almost 700g lighter than mine for $2100 more, or $3 per gram.

[Tested] crankbrothers Synthesis E11 Carbon Wheelset

I really don't get your point or your obsession with $ per gram nonsense
you can build an 1800g wheelset for a few hundred quid
or buy something pre-built at at around that weight with a large discount online.
eg.
DT Swiss X1900 Spline 27.5 Inch Wheelset
$112 for 1729g
Yes. I know they're now sold out. and Yes i know they're not what you're after exactly. it's just an example to show the sort of deals that often come up online.

I wouldn't ever dream of buying a crankbrothers wheelset. Nevermind one for £2k

 

[rsilvers]

or buy something pre-built at at around that weight with a large discount online.
eg.
DT Swiss X1900 Spline 27.5 Inch Wheelset
$112 for 1729g

Even if that were available it wouldn't work of course. They do make a 29er version. X1700 and X1900 are pretty low priced - normally $300 to $400 on eBay as take-offs, but they are 22.5mm internal width so I would not want them. Every time there is a deal on wheels, it is either not Boost, not a 29er, doesn't have a Shimano driver, is not 6-bolt, is not 30mm or wider, or is not available.

Yes, amazing deals sometimes happen. Like Black Friday. 70 inch TVs for $399 and stuff. My sister-in-law bought a new left-ever carbon LaPierre MTB that had a retail price of over $5200 for $900 USD. A model that they had extra stock of. I wish she would have told me. I would have got one for myself.

I am willing to shop the entire world as needed to get the best price for right now, but I don't wait for unspecified deals unless they happen every week or two. So, if I wanted lighter wheels, I would just spend the ~$600 that it takes to get them with the specs that are needed. That is what I did for the Arc30 with XT hubs that my manual bike has. This time I opted to not spend the extra $1 per gram since it is an eMTB.

 

[Kave]

I can only agree, the OT posters wheel are very heavy. Here is 40mm internal width wheels 2140g for 379€ incl taxes.
ActionSports.de | Bike Webshop

 

[rsilvers]

Yes, I know there are lighter wheels that cost more. Those come to over $400 USD compared to $269.

The other question is - should one be using 1300 gram Assegai tires when there are 700 gram tires?