Going from an SL to full Ebike questions

[Cseven]

I have a transition relay but am looking to sell to pocket a couple grand and then buy a YT decoy. Has anyone gone from an SL to a full fat Ebike and regretted it? or vice versa? trying to see if its really that big of a change in other peoples experience.

my relay weighs 45lbs.

thanks!

 

[Mcharza]

I changed from full emtb to the light emtb version.
For me full was too heavy and the motor pushed too hard.

But I guess it depends on your condition and what you want with it.

 

[steve_sordy]

Before "SL" was a thing I had a carbon fibre Focus Jam2 with a Shimano e8000 motor and a 378 whr battery. It weighed 20.4kg (45 lbs, just like yours). The e8000 delivered 70Nm of torque, not the 60Nm or less that some SLs deliver.

I sold it after 3200 trouble-free miles and bought a Merida eOne-Sixty 9000, also carbon frame. But a 625 whr battery and a Shimano EP8 motor developing 85Nm of torque. It weighs 23.6kg (52lbs). I don't notice the weight increase except when lifting it. But the range anxiety has gone! In addition, the way the bike delivers that 21% extra torque is sublime. The motor is tunable in three main ways (I don't mean Eco/Trail/Boost) without recourse to chipping it and the result is astonishing. The difference vs what the bike was like when delivered to me was so night and day that I wondered if half the complaints about Shimano performance being poor were down to ignorance about what could be done with the Shimano tuning app on their phone.

 

[Plummet]

The biggest issue with full fat (and I went FULL FAT with a 25kg 190mm Pole Voima) is once you get past motor cut out speeds and need to hit big jumps that require more speed and pop you are screwed. The bike is too heavy, too slow with sweet fa pop.

Attempting to ride the crankworks dh track in rotorua I just can't clear some of the big arse jumps. Due to lack of speed and pop. Over motor cut out speeds full fat e is worse than mtb.

For big jump clearing reasons alone I would consider a sl like the relay.

Now I love the extra uphill speed of full fat and the extra battery capacity. I get 3.5 hours of fun with full power on the 750 wh. I'm looking at buying a second battery so I can get 7 hours of riding out of a day.

If you don't do massive jumps above motor cut out speeds then I'd say full fat won't bother you.

Of course if you can afford it. Keep the relay and add a repeater to the stable too.... the would be ultimate decadence.

 

[Grendel]

I went SL and have never even demoed a full fat. Please keep us posted on your decision and how they compare if you ending up doing it.

 

[p3eps]

I went from a Trek Rail 9.9 to a Levo SL, and have never looked back.
For me, the Rail was a tank at about 23kgs and offered way more assistance than I would ever need. I could fly up climbs with no effort - but all I wanted was a little bit of help.

I’m now on my second Levo SL and it’s just on 17kgs and is great to ride. I ride in an Eco setting, so I’m only using about 15% assistance. There is the option to crank it up to 100% if I need it though.

Why not get the FF and try it for a bit before selling your Relay? I see way more people going from FF to SL than round the other way.

 

[Plummet]

I went from a Trek Rail 9.9 to a Levo SL, and have never looked back.
For me, the Rail was a tank at about 23kgs and offered way more assistance than I would ever need. I could fly up climbs with no effort - but all I wanted was a little bit of help.

This is something I don't get. Why couldn't you smash turbo to full assist then keep on pushing harder beyond turbo max?

That's what I do. I have zero problems maxing out my heart rate in turbo mode.

I also don't get going about the same speed or a little bit faster on the ups than meat biker. Why? Go twice as fast then do 2 Laps in the same time you get one lap in on the pedal bike.

 

[rzr]

I have a full power emtb (trek rail for a moment and Levo gen3 for 11 months) - amazing bike,
I've tested my friend's Keneno SL, and for me, that SL bike doesn't make sense, goes up slow, battery is too small - good to ride with analog bikes.
If you want to push hard, sure, you can do that as well.
If I have less time, I just smash climbs and descents on Turbo (up to ~1500-1600m), If I want to ride more, I use lower modes and do 2000-2500m elevation.
(I can do >2000m elevation on an analog Transition Sentinel bike too, but I prefer my Levo now)

 

[Plummet]

I have a full power emtb (trek rail for a moment and Levo gen3 for 11 months) - amazing bike,
I've tested my friend's Keneno SL, and for me, that SL bike doesn't make sense, goes up slow, battery is too small - good to ride with analog bikes.
If you want to push hard, sure, you can do that as well.
If I have less time, I just smash climbs and descents on Turbo (up to ~1500-1600m), If I want to ride more, I use lower modes and do 2000-2500m elevation.
(I can easily do >2000m elevation on an analog Transition Sentinel bike too, but I prefer my Levo now)

Yeah, that is true. You can detune the full fat and ride at sl speeds or ramp it up land blaze a lot faster and have a bunch more fun on the up than what an sl can provide.

The big question is does the extra weight of full fat detract from the overall experience enough to not want full fat.

My mtb is so playful so positionable. It's a precise style of riding manualling, poping off stuff at a whim.

Its really cool yo do nose wheelie turns and a bit if enduro trials style of riding.

The full fat is a point and plough riding style. I can smash through more way more chunder on the e witg a tone more stability. But can't be as playful and ride the exact same style as the mtb.

Why don't you borrow and or hire a full fat and ride it like you stole it. Then you will know without having buy the bike first.

 

[p3eps]

This is something I don't get. Why couldn't you smash turbo to full assist then keep on pushing harder beyond turbo max?

That's what I do. I have zero problems maxing out my heart rate in turbo mode.

I also don't get going about the same speed or a little bit faster on the ups than meat biker. Why? Go twice as fast then do 2 Laps in the same time you get one lap in on the pedal bike.

I enjoy riding the bike round trails, and like the exercise. I like the lightweight bike... the way it rides, the handling, and how much like riding a Stumpjumper it is! I ride with the kids with the motor off - and the SL has almost no resistance from the motor. I'm more into Enduro / Trail / AM riding rather than point and shoot downhill... so for me the lighter bike with a little assistance is enough.

I have various trails where I need to carry the bike, or lift it over fences / gates... and with a 23kg bike that wasn't easy. One specific one where I need to climb over an 8ft fence with my bike. Hard enough with a 17kg SL!

As everyone has said - it's personal preference. The OP asked for peoples experience, so I've given mine. It may not be everyones preference, but there are a large number of people on here who've ditched a FF bike in favour of an SL bike and haven't looked back.

 

[steve_sordy]

@Cseven How old are you?
It may seem an odd question, but bear with me. Until I got to 63, I was Superman, or at least I felt like it when on a bike! Even when arthritis started in my knees, I never considered an ebike. In fact, now I think about it, I'm not even sure that there was such a thing as an emtb when I was 63! I carried on riding with increasing difficulty and suddenly became aware of ebikes. But considering one was akin to giving in, wimping out, etc. Yes, I know the truth, I was resisting acceptance that I was getting older with all the random failures of the body that it brings. But eventually, despite all sorts of mechanical mods to the bike and painkiller for me, I was down to 10 miles every 3 days and riding alone instead of groups. I finally weakened (saw the light, whatever....) and bought an emtb. LIBERATION! What an absolute joy!

The point I'm making is that no matter how fit you are (even "for your age"), you cannot defeat the body clock. You cannot predict when it will happen to you, but be honest with yourself and if you are noticing that you are slower out of the traps in a morning, that you take longer to get over that long ride over the hills with your younger mates, then consider a full fat emtb and have done with it. Go for the joy!

 

[RustyIron]

I have a transition relay but am looking to sell to pocket a couple grand and then buy a YT decoy. Has anyone gone from an SL to a full fat Ebike and regretted it? or vice versa? trying to see if its really that big of a change in other peoples experience.

I haven't owned an SL style bike, but I'm rockin' a 504 Wh battery, which is sort of borderline by today's standards. I love the way my bike rides, but if there was one thing I could change, it would be a bigger battery.

My rides are typically loops in the wilderness, with a lot of uphill and downhill. When planning a ride, my primary consideration is how to include as many good trails as possible, while not killing the battery. Getting it wrong can change a casual ride into a grueling ordeal. When riding with folks on modern fatties, I have to work extra hard to keep up and still maintain my battery.

Some of the folks I ride with have small-battery bikes. That's ok for petite riders. Heavier riders can even the playing field with an extender. But if you need to ride with an extender all the time, you might as well get the fat bike in the first place. A regular size guy on an SL bike with no extender has to be incredibly strong, or he's going to be in for a world of hurt.

 

[Plummet]

I enjoy riding the bike round trails, and like the exercise. I like the lightweight bike... the way it rides, the handling, and how much like riding a Stumpjumper it is! I ride with the kids with the motor off - and the SL has almost no resistance from the motor. I'm more into Enduro / Trail / AM riding rather than point and shoot downhill... so for me the lighter bike with a little assistance is enough.

I have various trails where I need to carry the bike, or lift it over fences / gates... and with a 23kg bike that wasn't easy. One specific one where I need to climb over an 8ft fence with my bike. Hard enough with a 17kg SL!

As everyone has said - it's personal preference. The OP asked for peoples experience, so I've given mine. It may not be everyones preference, but there are a large number of people on here who've ditched a FF bike in favour of an SL bike and haven't looked back.

Oh, I fully get the enjoyment of a lighter bike and if that spurs the requirement for an sl.
I Can see me getting an sl in the future to satisfy my requirement for high speed big jumps above motor cut out. That really sucks when you have a DH capable bike and then within the first few pedal strokes on a dh track you exceed motor cut out but have to pedal and pop to make a 10-14m jump and theres no way you get get the extra speed required for the full fat bike to make it. I may over speed my pole for that very reason. So I can get at least the same speeds into bigger jumps that the guys on the dh rigs.

What I don't understand is people saying they couldn't input enough effort or get enough fitness in turbo mode.
Sure you can relax back and let the motor propel you forward or you can keep pushing also.

My most intense workout on the E are in turbo mode. Its full pace everywhere non stop. Up,down, n the flat, go, go, go until my lungs burst and my brain fries with information overload.

 

[Kevjob51]

My next bike I think will be mid power SL bike. I have full fat and it is fun as all get out but sometimes I want a lighter weight bike for jumps etc... that rides more like my mtb. First world problems...lol

 

[rzr]

Yeah, that is true. You can detune the full fat and ride at sl speeds or ramp it up land blaze a lot faster and have a bunch more fun on the up than what an sl can provide.

The big question is does the extra weight of full fat detract from the overall experience enough to not want full fat.

My mtb is so playful so positionable. It's a precise style of riding manualling, poping off stuff at a whim.

Its really cool yo do nose wheelie turns and a bit if enduro trials style of riding.

The full fat is a point and plough riding style. I can smash through more way more chunder on the e witg a tone more stability. But can't be as playful and ride the exact same style as the mtb.

Why don't you borrow and or hire a full fat and ride it like you stole it. Then you will know without having buy the bike first.

Exactly, full fat emtb tracks ground better - a bit like plough style, but you can still jump, enjoy your trail and do stupid things however, they work best when the speed is at least 10-15km/h, like here

and then, there are some super slow techy trails, where it's more difficult on heavy emtb, like here:
starts from 1m32s especially that I ride flats and with quite slack head angle: ~63*, it's difficult to make endo turns.

 

[cappuccino34]

I'm lucky enough to have various bikes at my disposal, both SL and full fat.
In a nutshell, an SL is much slower on steep climbs but FASTER EVERYWHERE ELSE.
They're also more economical if you like long rides.
Most of my PBs are on the SL bikes.
Over the course of a ride with varied gradients, including steep climbs, you're likely to be slower overall on an SL, unless the other riders (assuming that you're in a group) are battery capacity limited.

 

[Swissrider]

I have a 2018 Kenevo and a 2022 Orbea rise. The main reason I got the Rise was because of the limitations of the 500w battery in my Kenevo. I enjoy both bikes and like the contrast between them. If a ride is technical and/or very rocky and not too long, I'll take the Kenevo, which is very good at looking after me. If I'm its a long ride, especially riding with people who have got bigger batteries I'll take the Orbea (I have an extender as well). Both a fun, but in different ways. TBH, if it had to be one bike it would be the Orbea because it can do everything the Kenevo can do (albeit not quite as well in difficult terrain) but there are some things that the Kenevo simply cannot do, like long rides.

 

[DetailsMonster]

I have both types of bikes (Levo and Kenevo SL). I think it mostly comes down to how or what you like to ride on your bike. Also, if you ride with friends and what type of bikes they have. I primarily use the full power bike for trail building when I am carrying a heavy backpack or don't want to waste any energy getting to the trail. This used to be my only bike and I had a lot of fun riding with friends that also had full power bikes. I find the real fun with the full power bikes is when you are in turbo but they are not as "playful" as an SL or regular bike due to their weight. I find riding the full power bike with a group of regular bikes pretty boring and rarely do it (you pretty much need to be in eco or trail mode). I know a group of "mellow" riders (i.e., they never use Turbo mode) with full power bikes (they got them before SL type bikes existed) and they are consistently finishing a ride with 60-75% battery left.

With an SL type bike, it is easy to ride with regular bikes and it just makes going up steep hills easy and allows you to ride longer. They are definitely more playful and fun to pop off features. If I could only have one bike it would be the SL as it is more versatile. For most fit riders that have been riding a regular bike and SL has more than enough assist.

One last point, if you travel, an SL bike that can operate only a 'bottle cage' second battery is a big advantage as you can remove the main battery (which you CAN NOT put on a plane) and fly with the external battery (carry-on). This works for a Levo SL from what I have read.

 

[rzr]

most of my friends still have analog bikes, quite often we ride together, then I set assistance to 10-20% (depends how I feel and how exhausted after i want to be), however I disangage the group some times, to do one extra lap on turbo and to catch them on a climb anyway.

 

[Wilbur]

My group has gone to e-bikes so everyone had to go full fat to do the same sort of riding. Latest member to go electric is youngest and fittest (just podiumed in a 12hr endurance race riding. a hardtail). Anyone who wants to keep riding with the group needs full fat, we do long rides with lots of altitude.
Often been said we would be quite happy if everyone just went back to mtbs, but that wouldn’t suit all of us (some are less able). I’m of the opinion that mtbs are just as much fun., and a whole lot less complexity/money…

 

[cappuccino34]

My group has gone to e-bikes so everyone had to go full fat to do the same sort of riding. Latest member to go electric is youngest and fittest (just podiumed in a 12hr endurance race riding. a hardtail). Anyone who wants to keep riding with the group needs full fat, we do long rides with lots of altitude.
Often been said we would be quite happy if everyone just went back to mtbs, but that wouldn’t suit all of us (some are less able). I’m of the opinion that mtbs are just as much fun., and a whole lot less complexity/money…

I think it depends on the group's relative fitness. I'm happy having to work harder to keep up with less fit riders on full fats.

 

[downunderdallas]

I have a relay and a Norco Sight VLT. I love the relay, the Norco has literally not been ridden since I got the relay. It is a bit down on power for sure but after a few months I feel like I have more or less adjusted to it. Wouldn't go back. It's only 2-3 kilos but it makes a significant ride difference I think.

 

[Kevlasultanpus]

Before "SL" was a thing I had a carbon fibre Focus Jam2 with a Shimano e8000 motor and a 378 whr battery. It weighed 20.4kg (45 lbs, just like yours). The e8000 delivered 70Nm of torque, not the 60Nm or less that some SLs deliver.

I sold it after 3200 trouble-free miles and bought a Merida eOne-Sixty 9000, also carbon frame. But a 625 whr battery and a Shimano EP8 motor developing 85Nm of torque. It weighs 23.6kg (52lbs). I don't notice the weight increase except when lifting it. But the range anxiety has gone! In addition, the way the bike delivers that 21% extra torque is sublime. The motor is tunable in three main ways (I don't mean Eco/Trail/Boost) without recourse to chipping it and the result is astonishing. The difference vs what the bike was like when delivered to me was so night and day that I wondered if half the complaints about Shimano performance being poor were down to ignorance about what could be done with the Shimano tuning app on their phone.

Steve,

I had the exact same jam2 ...carbon/27.5/21kg. I sort of regret selling it and swapping for the Rise. Yes i get 540 battery but in all honesty i never ride that far. Im lucky to do an all day epic at 45Km a few times a year.,to which the Jam ran out with a couple of km to go but the same ride with the rise had 50% left. The thing is i rode that Jam in eco 99.9% whilst I ride the Rise in Trail 99.9%. Part of me says the focus was the better bike until the rear linkages played up and Focus Aust and their distributors where just #$%^& hopeless at resolving.

 

[F4Flyer]

My opinion as a mountain biker since the 90s...I prefer lighter weight e-bikes. They handle much better and are more fun. I am personally not emnamored by the power of full-on ebikes. I owned one and it was okay but then I bought a Levo SL and it felt much more like a regular mountain bike. I sold the full-power Pivot Shuttle. My Levo SL is 40 lbs and my Shuttle was 48 lbs. The Shuttle wasn't as heavy as most full-power ebikes. I rode a regular Levo and found it a bit heavy and cumbersome to really throw around and have fun on. I could manhandle it (I'm 175 lbs and also lift weights pretty regularly) but it simply wasn't as nimble or fun on technical pedaling sections or the downhills.

 

[Chairman]

This is something I don't get. Why couldn't you smash turbo to full assist then keep on pushing harder beyond turbo max?

That's what I do. I have zero problems maxing out my heart rate in turbo mode.

I also don't get going about the same speed or a little bit faster on the ups than meat biker. Why? Go twice as fast then do 2 Laps in the same time you get one lap in on the pedal bike.

Yes I agree totally with this. I just don't get why peeps feel they must ride slowly uphill. Why not just smash the uphill as quickly as you can using full assistance. That's how to get a real workout.

 

[DetailsMonster]

Yes I agree totally with this. I just don't get why peeps feel they must ride slowly uphill. Why not just smash the uphill as quickly as you can using full assistance. That's how to get a real workout.

That is what I like to do when I am riding by myself or with friends with full-power bikes but when riding with friends without e-bikes I like to stay with the group. This is where the lower power bike is more appropriate. Currently, none of my riding buddies have full-power e-bikes so the SL is go to bike for group rides.

 

[Suns_PSD]

Yes I agree totally with this. I just don't get why peeps feel they must ride slowly uphill. Why not just smash the uphill as quickly as you can using full assistance. That's how to get a real workout.

My climbs are 98% technical single track. Ledges, trees, drop offs, 270' switchback turns with all of the above right in the middle of them.

I wouldn't be putting in any power at all with a full power Bosch turned up.

The Relay in the middle power setting is a real pleasure on steep technical climbs around here.

 

[michael_bc]

I have a transition relay but am looking to sell to pocket a couple grand and then buy a YT decoy. Has anyone gone from an SL to a full fat Ebike and regretted it? or vice versa? trying to see if its really that big of a change in other peoples experience.

my relay weighs 45lbs.

thanks!

Try before you buy.

Last week, I switched from a ~23.5 kg full-fat to a 540 Wh Orbea Rise, and man-oh-man is the new bike better.

I can't tell the difference in assistance between the old bike in eMTB mode vs. the new bike in boost. The Orbea feels better climbing (less jerky, higher cadence, front wheel sticks to the ground better).

On the way down though, the Orbea is so much nicer in tight turns, so much lighter to lift over trees.

I think there's a spectrum of mid-weight bikes available that hit the nail on the head.