Giant Trance-e +2 2019 rear hub issues

[Wernher]

I want to check if I'm the only person picking up issues with my rear wheel working loose between rides.

The issue with failing freewheel hubs is a will known issue, but I've had another issue where my treat wheel starts to work loose between rides. This happened since new and recently at a mere 2900 kilos I had a rear hub service done with all the bearings replaced because they were very rough. I stood by while the job was done and checked how the outer shafts were tightened to take up the play before retiring the wheel in the bike. After my first short ride I had to tighten the axle by almost a quarter turn because the wheel was loose. I put that down to possible selling of the bearings as they were possibly not seated well although they're were pressed and tapped to seat them. Since then I've had to tighten the axle again after every ride. This time not as much as the first time but still significantly because the wheel was having play and creaking when pedaling.

The LBS advised that I need to drop the wheel of with them so they can send it away to Giant for an answer. It is a rather annoying situation as it means my bike is not available to ride and I ride daily or at least every 2 days.

I'm thinking of just upgrading my hubs to something better but it's a lot of money for something that I expect Giant to get right the first time. I have a suspicion that my bearing failures and two casettes that failed are related to this issue. The first cassette was replaced under warranty but the second not and I'm not a novice EMTB rider who doesn't know to use my gears. Funny that after I found my rear wheel to be loose and I tightened it my cassette issues disappeared and I've done 2000 kilos on my last cassette. The bearings that were completely rough at 2900 kilos seem to be really poor and premature for failure. I've done 1000 kilos on other bikes with the bearings still in perfect condition.

The bearings on the Giant hub can't be locked. You can merely turn the outer shafts towards each other until they take up the slack and then once the wheel is in the bike the tension on the axle should prevent them from turning loose. This is however not happening and the symptoms as explained is appearing. Loose wheel after every ride.

I'd really appreciate feedback on this issue to determine if it's a general issue on these hubs.

 

[paul-g]

get a "Maxle" with the clamp on the end
wont let you down
"Wiggle" do a 12 x 150 not cheap but?

 

[Wernher]

get a "Maxle" with the clamp on the end
wont let you down
"Wiggle" do a 12 x 150 not cheap but?

Thanks Paul, at this stage I'm trying to find out if it's a general problem because I don't think customers should pay for crap parts that are sub standard. If it's a general issue that other owners also experience Giant should foot the bill. So far two owners reported having the same issue. One had his hub replaced by Giant with a Hope hub and he doesn't have the issue anymore. It's apparently not always as bad as mine but still an issue and when your wheel turns loose it has a knock-on effect on other parts that fail.

 

[paul-g]

mmmm
mine hasn`t come loose but I remember when I got the bike
I did have thoughts of what bloody locks this thing!
and with a bit of luck i`m ok BUT the first time I think
it might have moved it will be Maxle.
got Giant hubs on this had same on old bike and had no problem,
do prefer the Nukeproof hub, pawls are easier to clean

 

[Wernher]

I'll check it the maxle. First thing now I'm going to mark the outer sleeves on the axle to see if they turn. If they don't, it must be bearings receding or wearing, them next steps. Tomorrow tough ride again where it will put some punishment on the axle.

 

[Wernher]

Giant agreed to upgrade me to a DT-Swiss 350 hub. Essentially they pay me out for the stock hub and I pay in the difference. Labour is covered as well. That's excellent warranty and support as my bike is older than a year and had done more than 3K kilos. They also give me the stronger and more refined eBike optimised freewheel. Will get the details when I get to the LBS on Thursday.

Having looked at the stock hub, which is a Giant hub manufactured by Shimano, I can understand that it won't last. The bearings are retained by screw in axle ends and these for some stupid reason keep working themselves loose and when you tighten them the bearings become rough. I see more of people complaining about this on hubs from various manufacturers. DT-Swiss has a pressfit and shim setup that just never packs up. On my other bike I've done around 10 K kilos without any hub maintenance and it's perfect. I noticed when the bearings start to get rough, I get a noticable reduction in the range on my battery.

Can't wait for my wheel to be sorted.

 

[Farmernz]

Mine was replaced with Dt 350 hybrid last year and my axel was neatly out the other day, was the first time it’s happened tho. Gear changes were messy just befor I noticed.

 

[paul-g]

Mine was replaced with Dt 350 hybrid last year and my axel was neatly out the other day, was the first time it’s happened tho. Gear changes were messy just befor I noticed.

"ROCKSHOX MAXLE"

 

[Wernher]

Mine was replaced with Dt 350 hybrid last year and my axel was neatly out the other day, was the first time it’s happened tho. Gear changes were messy just befor I noticed.

Do I understand you correctly that your stock hub wore out with the axle loose and that you replaced it with a DT350 hybrid?

If so did Giant cover it under warranty or did you just replace the hub with the DT hub?

My symptoms were an axle that continued to loosen every time after doing rides of around 30 plus kilometers. Before I eventually realised what is happening I also noticed sloppy gear changes and noises from the rear. Then I noticed that my bearings started to wear prematurely and I had the hub serviced at my expense just to realise that the problem is still there.

After complaining to the LBS the issue was referred to Giant who came to the party and offered me an upgrade. The rear hub on all the 2019 models are identical, so buying a more expensive model would not have solved my issue.

Hopefully this is the end of my endless irritation with the loosening rear axle.

Just on another point. Some people advised that I should look at a different axle, but the issue was on the hub and not on the axle.

So tomorrow it's going in and by evening I should be back on my wheels.

 

[Wernher]

"ROCKSHOX MAXLE"

@paul-g the issue is not on the axle loosening but on the hub causing the axle to be loose in the position where it was tightened. On the Giant axle you can turn it tight and then remove the handle with the Allen key and reposition it in the position that you prefer. Due to some peculiarity on the Giant/Shimano hub, the internal bearing lock axles (whatever they are called) turns inward and removes the pressure on the axle that had been tightened. You are then able to tension the axle further and indeed has to do it or the wheel becomes loose and the gear changes become sloppy. This then results in more pressure on the bearings causing it to become rough and wear prematurely. I tried everything and couldn't get the issue sorted. Having run DT Hubs on my other bikes, I know it's not a problem, hence the decision to go for the suggested upgrade. The stock axle is actually not bad so no need to change that unless I find a real issue.

 

[paul-g]

@paul-g the issue is not on the axle loosening but on the hub causing the axle to be loose in the position where it was tightened. On the Giant axle you can turn it tight and then remove the handle with the Allen key and reposition it in the position that you prefer. Due to some peculiarity on the Giant/Shimano hub, the internal bearing lock axles (whatever they are called) turns inward and removes the pressure on the axle that had been tightened. You are then able to tension the axle further and indeed has to do it or the wheel becomes loose and the gear changes become sloppy. This then results in more pressure on the bearings causing it to become rough and wear prematurely. I tried everything and couldn't get the issue sorted. Having run DT Hubs on my other bikes, I know it's not a problem, hence the decision to go for the suggested upgrade. The stock axle is actually not bad so no need to change that unless I find a real issue.

my old bike and my full e ran giant (think they were) tracker hubs
never had a problem with them.
the full e has that type of axle, don`t like it really much prefer the maxle but not had
any loosening of the hub against the axle.
will keep an eye out on axle/hub and other eye on threads.
one last question, is this happening on the front as well, if not why?
presumably same hubs

 

[Pdoz]

Do I understand you correctly that your stock hub wore out with the axle loose and that you replaced it with a DT350 hybrid?

If so did Giant cover it under warranty or did you just replace the hub with the DT hub?

My symptoms were an axle that continued to loosen every time after doing rides of around 30 plus kilometers. Before I eventually realised what is happening I also noticed sloppy gear changes and noises from the rear. Then I noticed that my bearings started to wear prematurely and I had the hub serviced at my expense just to realise that the problem is still there.

After complaining to the LBS the issue was referred to Giant who came to the party and offered me an upgrade. The rear hub on all the 2019 models are identical, so buying a more expensive model would not have solved my issue.

Hopefully this is the end of my endless irritation with the loosening rear axle.

Just on another point. Some people advised that I should look at a different axle, but the issue was on the hub and not on the axle.

So tomorrow it's going in and by evening I should be back on my wheels.

I you still have the old hub, can you rake a quick look? On the brake side there should be 2 nuts, both the inner black and outer silver nuts have a recess for a 19 mm spanner? If you have a thin enough spanner to fit the black nut, it's a simple matter of adjusting hub tension then makkng sure the 2 nuts are counter tightened against each other?

I've never had the hub come loose when setting it up myself, but every time a shop touches my wheels they are slack within 1 ride.

Yes, it's a stupid design and every time I have my hubbapart I think next time I'll buy a new hub...but the bloody thing won't die! (2018 full e pro , same " etracker" hub.

 

[paul-g]

i`ll have a look

 

[Farmernz]

Do I understand you correctly that your stock hub wore out with the axle loose and that you replaced it with a DT350 hybrid?

If so did Giant cover it under warranty or did you just replace the hub with the DT hub?

My symptoms were an axle that continued to loosen every time after doing rides of around 30 plus kilometers. Before I eventually realised what is happening I also noticed sloppy gear changes and noises from the rear. Then I noticed that my bearings started to wear prematurely and I had the hub serviced at my expense just to realise that the problem is still there.

After complaining to the LBS the issue was referred to Giant who came to the party and offered me an upgrade. The rear hub on all the 2019 models are identical, so buying a more expensive model would not have solved my issue.

Hopefully this is the end of my endless irritation with the loosening rear axle.

Just on another point. Some people advised that I should look at a different axle, but the issue was on the hub and not on the axle.

So tomorrow it's going in and by evening I should be back on my wheels.

My hub lost all drive on 2nd ride, the shop changed the hub at no cost to me, I’ve done many rides and this is the fit time the axel has come loose. Hope they sort yours out too.

 

[Wernher]

my old bike and my full e ran giant (think they were) tracker hubs
never had a problem with them.
the full e has that type of axle, don`t like it really much prefer the maxle but not had
any loosening of the hub against the axle.
will keep an eye out on axle/hub and other eye on threads.
one last question, is this happening on the front as well, if not why?
presumably same hubs

Only on the back. I assume it is because there a lot of side load on the rear from pedaling and also during cornering. I am also probably heavier than most people on these bikes. In the front I now have a quick release axle (QLoc) that came with the SR Suntour Durolux fork, but it's never been a problem.

 

[Wernher]

I you still have the old hub, can you rake a quick look? On the brake side there should be 2 nuts, both the inner black and outer silver nuts have a recess for a 19 mm spanner? If you have a thin enough spanner to fit the black nut, it's a simple matter of adjusting hub tension then makkng sure the 2 nuts are counter tightened against each other?

I've never had the hub come loose when setting it up myself, but every time a shop touches my wheels they are slack within 1 ride.

Yes, it's a stupid design and every time I have my hubbapart I think next time I'll buy a new hub...but the bloody thing won't die! (2018 full e pro , same " etracker" hub.

Unfortunately or should I say fortunately, I'm ride of it and the buttery smooth DT Swiss is in my bike. You are probably right that this is the problem. I didn't have the tools to dismantle so I tried on the LBS to do the job right. Still prefer the DT though but could maybe have lived with the stock hub.

 

[Wernher]

My hub lost all drive on 2nd ride, the shop changed the hub at no cost to me, I’ve done many rides and this is the fit time the axel has come loose. Hope they sort yours out too.

The problem losing drive is on the freewheel part of the hub. I believe in some of them it may have been as a result of too much grease but I know Giant replaced all those with an upgraded freewheel hub. The second problem with the axle coming loose may be related to the lock nut coming loose on the axle. @Pdoz may have a point in his post about why it happens

 

[Browneye]

@Wernher - Ric at Fullerton Bikes was just telling me about building a new custom hub for a customer - would this be you? California?

First post...found the place.

I just got a Trance E+2.

 

[paul-g]

right can see your problem now firistly freehub
remove freehub (I am taking this from memory)
underside has I think 4 pawls might be six (cant remember)
remove pawls care not to loose spring outer and pawl springs.
clean and replace ( I only use a little grease) a lot makes them stick
and that's why they do not lock
looking at wheel there might be a lot of grease where freehub fits
(I removed this and lightly greased)
replace freehub
replace 1st nut to finger tight
replace 2nd nut to finger tight (check play and running of wheel
crunch time
either buy 2 spanners or like I did grind 2 to the correct thickness and fit
tighten the 2 nuts together without loosening the bottom nut
remember i am taking this from memory

 

[paul-g]

another thing
the large pawl spring I disgarded and found a heavier
one that was a key ring
that can be the other problem, the spring helps the pawls
shoot out (the pawl springs themselves are very small)and
not very strong

 

[paul-g]

don`t think you need a new hub I think it`s the set up
and loose nuts (excuse the pun)
I generally do this with all wheels I buy new or not
factories can over egg things with grease
I`ve had 2 bikes with tracker hubs and nothing wrong with either

 

[paul-g]

sorry forgot this
when you have taken the axle out I think
you need a 12mm allen key to remove the freehub

 

[Wernher]

@Wernher - Ric at Fullerton Bikes was just telling me about building a new custom hub for a customer - would this be you? California?

First post...found the place.

I just got a Trance E+2.

Nope.I am in South Africa. ?

 

[paul-g]

The problem losing drive is on the freewheel part of the hub. I believe in some of them it may have been as a result of too much grease but I know Giant replaced all those with an upgraded freewheel hub. The second problem with the axle coming loose may be related to the lock nut coming loose on the axle. @Pdoz may have a point in his post about why it happens

right can see your problem now firistly freehub
remove freehub (I am taking this from memory)
underside has I think 4 pawls might be six (cant remember)
remove pawls care not to loose spring outer and pawl springs.
clean and replace ( I only use a little grease) a lot makes them stick
and that's why they do not lock
looking at wheel there might be a lot of grease where freehub fits
(I removed this and lightly greased)
replace freehub
replace 1st nut to finger tight
replace 2nd nut to finger tight (check play and running of wheel
crunch time
either buy 2 spanners or like I did grind 2 to the correct thickness and fit
tighten the 2 nuts together without loosening the bottom nut
remember i am taking this from memory
another thing
the large pawl spring I disgarded and found a heavier
one that was a key ring
that can be the other problem, the spring helps the pawls
shoot out (the pawl springs themselves are very small)and
not very strong
don`t think you need a new hub I think it`s the set up
and loose nuts (excuse the pun)
I generally do this with all wheels I buy new or not
factories can over egg things with grease
I`ve had 2 bikes with tracker hubs and nothing wrong with either
sorry forgot this
when you have taken the axle out I think
you need a 12mm allen key to remove the freehub

 

[Wernher]

@Wernher - Ric at Fullerton Bikes was just telling me about building a new custom hub for a customer - would this be you? California?

First post...found the place.

I just got a Trance E+2.

Congratulations on your bike. My brother lives in San Diego but he's still on analogy bike. Shame ?

 

[Browneye]

Congratulations on your bike. My brother lives in San Diego but he's still on analogy bike. Shame ?

SD, and you're in SA?? Whoa!

SD is pretty e-bike friendly. Lots of trails.
Halfway to there is YT Industries. Cool carbon bikes, and a few e-versions. Awesome.

 

[Wernher]

Sorry if I'm off topic. You have some great bikes available there and like South Africa less restrictions on speed etc. We on the other hand have more freedom to ride anywhere we like but we ride more natural trails than bike parks. If you ever come this way you must stay on contact. We must do some rides together. We're in the Eastern Cape near Port Elizabeth. I'll show you some great riding places ?