Genuinely curious tire ?

[Tattoo400]

I know this could be a dumb question but I don't understand why you can't or shouldn't mount a tire designate as "rear" for the front. I understand the mounting of of the tire can be switched with varying pros and cons but putting a tire marked as rear on the front, why not? TIA

 

[Durrti]

Not that you can’t, just that they are designed for different attributes. Front tends to be grippier and better cornering, rear better braking. I enjoy running double Assegai

 

[Gyre]

It's not that unusual to hear of people saying they run DHR2s front and rear.

 

[The Hodge]

 

[irie]

It's not that unusual to hear of people saying they run DHR2s front and rear.

I do. Perhaps not an ultimate grip front tyre but I like it's predictability when it starts to slide.

 

[Mikerb]

Some tyres are specifically designed to optimise performance on the front or the rear........e.g. Maxxis DHF and DHR or Michelin Enduro Front and rear. Typically tyres optimised for performance on the front have more aggressive side knobs whilst tyres optimised for the rear have a tread pattern optimised for traction and braking. There are other tyres that work well on the front or the rear ( in the right conditions) e.g Maxxis Assegai..........although most these days choose a heavier construction version and possibly softer compound for the rear ( e.g. DD/maxx grip) and a lighter construction/ harder compound one for the front ( e.g. ECO +/maxx terra) , the tread pattern is the same.

 

[jsharpe]

Not that you can’t, just that they are designed for different attributes. Front tends to be grippier and better cornering, rear better braking. I enjoy running double Assegai

I was wondering about that on my ride earlier today. Since my current rear (Maxxis DHF) will need to be replaced pretty soon I was thinking about moving my front Assegai to the back and getting a new one for the front. However, I went through the Max Terra compound DHF on the rear pretty fast so I'm thinking even though Max Grip Assegai doesn't show much wear on the front it won't last long on the back. What compound(s) are you running?

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I was wondering about that on my ride earlier today. Since my current rear (Maxxis DHF) will need to be replaced pretty soon I was thinking about moving my front Assegai to the back and getting a new one for the front. However, I went through the Max Terra compound DHF on the rear pretty fast so I'm thinking even though Max Grip Assegai doesn't show much wear on the front it won't last long on the back. What compound(s) are you running?

I'd say you would go through your assegai max grip pretty quickly on the rear. I used to swap DHFs from front to rear to save money however now I've gone to assegai max grip front & MAx terra DHR rear I wil stick with that set up as they are very predictable & last pretty well . The Max terra is lasting twice as long on the back as any max grip ones I used while the assegai front hasn't shown much wear over the last 300kms. My rear wheel is locked up a lot.

 

[KnollyBro]

Some tyres are specifically designed to optimise performance on the front or the rear........e.g. Maxxis DHF and DHR or Michelin Enduro Front and rear. Typically tyres optimised for performance on the front have more aggressive side knobs whilst tyres optimised for the rear have a tread pattern optimised for traction and braking. There are other tyres that work well on the front or the rear ( in the right conditions) e.g Maxxis Assegai..........although most these days choose a heavier construction version and possibly softer compound for the rear ( e.g. DD/maxx grip) and a lighter construction/ harder compound one for the front ( e.g. ECO +/maxx terra) , the tread pattern is the same.

I put the softer MaxxGrip EXO+ on the front where you need the traction for steering and braking and the heavier longer wearing tire (DD MaxxTerra) on the rear where you need traction for climbing. Its been my experience, you will go thru a lot of tires if you use MaxxGrip on the rear. I usually get tear lines in the knobs off or at least round them over on the rear long before the front tire shows signs of significant wear even when using MaxxTerra tires. YMMV depending on where you ride!

 

[Mikerb]

I put the softer MaxxGrip EXO+ on the front where you need the traction for steering and braking and the heavier longer wearing tire (DD MaxxTerra) on the rear where you need traction for climbing. Its been my experience, you will go thru a lot of tires if you use MaxxGrip on the rear. I usually get tear lines in the knobs off or at least round them over on the rear long before the front tire shows signs of significant wear even when using MaxxTerra tires. YMMV depending on where you ride!

yes... I tend to agree with that and it is exacly how tyre choice has been made on my Whyte E160 RSX ( Assegai front and DHR11 rear) . My e180 RS is Assegai front and back and the max grip on the back.........and yes wear has been fairly rapid!!

 

[steve_sordy]

.................although most these days choose a heavier construction version and possibly softer compound for the rear ( e.g. DD/maxx grip) and a lighter construction/ harder compound one for the front ( e.g. ECO +/maxx terra) , the tread pattern is the same.

That is the exact opposite of what I do! I want a grippy tyre on the front and one less grippy on the rear. The objective is to try to ensure that on a corner it's the rear that slides out and not the front! That worked for years on an mtb. But on my first emtb I found that the rear tyre needed a bit more grip to avoid spinning out on loose climbs. Still less grip than the front though.

Right now, I have a 29x2.5 Maxxis Assegai DD Maxx Gripp (1335gm) 17psi on the front. For the rear, I have a WTB Trail Boss 27.5x2.6 TCS Light (1063gm) 20psi. TCS stands for Triple Compound, Slash guard.

Edit: I ride tubeless. It's so long since I have ridden with tubes that I'd have to start afresh with the tyre pressures, probably another 3-5 psi?

 

[KnollyBro]

That is the exact opposite of what I do! I want a grippy tyre on the front and one less grippy on the rear. The objective is to try to ensure that on a corner it's the rear that slides out and not the front! That worked for years on an mtb. But on my first emtb I found that the rear tyre needed a bit more grip to avoid spinning out on loose climbs. Still less grip than the front though.

Right now, I have a 29x2.5 Maxxis Assegai DD Maxx Gripp (1335gm) 17psi on the front. For the rear, I have a WTB Trail Boss 27.5x2.6 TCS Light (1063gm) 20psi. TCS stands for Triple Compound, Slash guard.

If you are running those tire pressures without inserts you must weigh in around 140 - 150 lbs?

 

[irie]

Some tyres are specifically designed to optimise performance on the front or the rear........e.g. Maxxis DHF and DHR or Michelin Enduro Front and rear. Typically tyres optimised for performance on the front have more aggressive side knobs whilst tyres optimised for the rear have a tread pattern optimised for traction and braking. There are other tyres that work well on the front or the rear ( in the right conditions) e.g Maxxis Assegai..........although most these days choose a heavier construction version and possibly softer compound for the rear ( e.g. DD/maxx grip) and a lighter construction/ harder compound one for the front ( e.g. ECO +/maxx terra) , the tread pattern is the same.

Sorry, disagree with you - lighter construction perhaps but absolutely not "harder compound" for the front!

Maximum front grip is absolutely critical because if you lose the front you're stuffed whereas what the rear does is secondary to maintaining front grip.

 

[Mikerb]

Sorry, disagree with you - lighter construction perhaps but absolutely not "harder compound" for the front!

Maximum front grip is absolutely critical because if you lose the front you're stuffed whereas what the rear does is secondary to maintaining front grip.

no need to apologise....I already said above I agree! One thing to note however is that the stickier rubber is likely only to make any significant difference on surfaces like rock slab and wet root and if traction is critical on techy climbs that include those surfaces a max grip on the back can help.

 

[steve_sordy]

If you are running those tire pressures without inserts you must weigh in around 140 - 150 lbs?

Nope, in my riding gear I weigh 92kg, which is a few pounds over 200. I mostly ride in the woods, so no sharp rocks to contend with, just lots of roots. I neglected to mention that I ride tubeless. I will go edit that post.

 

[irie]

no need to apologise....I already said above I agree! One thing to note however is that the stickier rubber is likely only to make any significant difference on surfaces like rock slab and wet root and if traction is critical on techy climbs that include those surfaces a max grip on the back can help.

Then perhaps you'd care to edit and correct your post? Leaving it there is for the inexperienced potentially dangerous.

 

[KnollyBro]

Nope, in my riding gear I weigh 92kg, which is a few pounds over 200. I mostly ride in the woods, so no sharp rocks to contend with, just lots of roots. I neglected to mention that I ride tubeless. I will go edit that post.

Interesting! Depending on where we ride, I use similar pressures but also run Cushcore. I use a little more pressure at Whistler or less pressure if its wet. I weigh in around 195 geared up. When I read about riders who run 25- 30 PSI or more I can't imagine what their wrists/arms/shoulders must feel like after a few trails! Once again, we all ride in difference places and have different expectations.

 

[Waynemarlow]

When I read about riders who run 25- 30 PSI or more I can't imagine what their wrists/arms/shoulders must feel like after a few trails!

I thought that was what the early part of the suspension travel took care of, low tyre pressures just take care of the amount of moldability of the tread around obstacles, meaning grip in my book, which is why we all went tubeless and now run lower pressures than yesteryear ?

 

[Mikerb]

Lowest pressure I even use is 20psi in the front 22 in the back. Those are forest trails with no rocks to speak of. If I ride more rocky/stoney terrain I run higher pressures. Never used tyre inserts and never damaged a wheel other than scratches. I doubt whether many tyres actually perform as intended by the manufacturer if inflated too low.

 

[Philly G]

no need to apologise....I already said above I agree! One thing to note however is that the stickier rubber is likely only to make any significant difference on surfaces like rock slab and wet root and if traction is critical on techy climbs that include those surfaces a max grip on the back can help.

If money was no object then I would run MaxxGrip front and rear....but I tried it and my back tyre needed replacing after just 6 months...and they're $140 NZD unless you get them on special. I run the same as @Doug Stampfer MaxxGrip DD Assegai front and MaxxTerra DD DHR2 on the rear. It's a great combo

 

[KnollyBro]

I thought that was what the early part of the suspension travel took care of, low tyre pressures just take care of the amount of moldability of the tread around obstacles, meaning grip in my book, which is why we all went tubeless and now run lower pressures than yesteryear ?

While I would agree with you to a point, you have to admit that the overwhelming amount of anecdotal information provided in these threads has to account for something (tires are first level of suspension, then shock/fork, then arms/legs). For instance, when riders say they uses 25+ PSI tire pressure and ride on hard packed trails which have roots on them, I picture the trails that I ride on, that sound like that. Or when other riders say they ride on steep and loose rocky trails with lots of square edge hits, I think of the trails that I ride on, that sound like that. Yet most of the riders who make specific statements about this and that are not providing video of what they exactly are taking about (maybe something they have read?). It is easy for me to say that I can "ride" 95% of the trails at Whistler with the setup I have listed but the question will always remain, how does one define "ride". Obviously I am no where near as fast as a World Cup racer or even the average 18 punk who grew up on a bike in Whistler (Jackson Goldstone is actually a nice young man!) but I can still "ride" down the same trails as they do (in my area). Your riding ability, experience and style will have more to do with what you can ride and how well you ride it than a few PSI here or there. For me, comfort and control are more important than speed on the trails that I ride. YMMV!

 

[Doug Stampfer]

I find it really interesting when I hear guys riding high pressures. I can tell if my tyres are above or below the 19PSI range I generally ride on. Too high my rear is sliding around on anything & too soft & it feels too washy around corners (great on roots though). I guess like tyre combos there's no wrong or right but whatever choice makes you a more confident rider

 

[Waynemarlow]

While I would agree with you to a point, you have to admit that the overwhelming amount of anecdotal information provided in these threads has to account for something (tires are first level of suspension, then shock/fork, then arms/legs)

So you are saying anecdotally that the vast majority of riders here on these threads do not know how to set up their suspension and or the majority of suspension units are crap ?

I'm not sure on that as if it were the case, it would be far easier for us all to just go and buy a Fat bike whose tyres do all the above, without the need of the expensive bit, front suspension.

 

[Mikerb]

Im not sure I would class tyre deformation as suspension............how many people actually check the amount of "sag" ( ie deformation) in a tyre just under rider weight and therefor how much more the tyre can deform when met with a trail obstacle?

If you read the copious number of tyre reviews by people like Bike Radar etc they often comment on the "damping" effect of certain tyre...and not others....often different for different constructions of the same tyre. So there is an effect. Unlike suspension however with preset and more importantly, progressive compression and adjustable damping, there is no way to know all the variables for a tyre. So it is just down to feel really. Certainly a tyre inflated hard is going to feel different to one inflated softer but to graduate that in terms of a few psi one way or the other? Not really!!

 

[irie]

Im not sure I would class tyre deformation as suspension............how many people actually check the amount of "sag" ( ie deformation) in a tyre just under rider weight and therefor how much more the tyre can deform when met with a trail obstacle?

Riders may not check and measure it like they do sag, but most/all know it's there and (sub)consciously take it into account when considering ride quality.

 

[KnollyBro]

So you are saying anecdotally that the vast majority of riders here on these threads do not know how to set up their suspension and or the majority of suspension units are crap ?

I'm not sure on that as if it were the case, it would be far easier for us all to just go and buy a Fat bike whose tyres do all the above, without the need of the expensive bit, front suspension.

Wow... now THAT was a bit of a leap! Lets focus on my point:

"Yet most of the riders who make specific statements about this and that are not providing video of what they exactly are talking about (maybe something they have read?). It is easy for me to say that I can "ride" 95% of the trails at Whistler with the setup I have listed but the question will always remain, how does one define "ride"."

My comment was about how riders share their settings/experience (anecdotal) but they don't share where they ride or how they ride (in video), which, IMHO, matters a great deal. For instance, I have no idea where Bucks is, as stated on your profile pic, so that is one less bit of information that validates your statements.

If you and others don't consider tires and tire pressure part of the overall suspension system then your statement about Fat Bikes does seem to contradict that point. Obviously, I am not saying tires have anywhere near the effect that shocks and forks have on a bike's suspension performance. That would be silly. I stand behind my statement that how your arms and legs act like suspension, which also plays a part in the overal suspension of a bike.

My last point was about the term "ride". Everybody has a different idea of what they call riding. My dad used to race road bikes in the a small town west of Brimingham. My parents had no idea why anyone would want to ride a bike in the woods. My colleagues don't understand. Fortunately, my wife is a rider. She gets it. My goal is to ride like I used to, but with less crashes and broken bits. I ride a bike that hasn't killed me yet. People say I ride like a gorilla (style and weight need work). I ride the North Shore, Squamish and Whistler. What does that make you think of?

In the end, they say a picture is worth a thousand words. A video must be worth more !

I Ride Whistler. What does that make you think of?


How I Think I ride Whistler.


How I Actually Ride Park - Crack Addict!

 

[Waynemarlow]

Wow... now THAT was a bit of a leap! Lets focus on my point:

Sorry I can't really concur with your thoughts as I've always believed the tyre pressure is your base from which you then set your suspension accordingly to the riding conditions. That tyre pressure in my view really doesn't change much ( just adjusting maxim grip ) as you could get into the situation pretty quickly where the suspension is reacting to the tyre flex rather than the track you are riding on.

Shall we get back to the OP question.

I know this could be a dumb question but I don't understand why you can't or shouldn't mount a tire designate as "rear" for the front. I understand the mounting of of the tire can be switched with varying pros and cons but putting a tire marked as rear on the front, why not? TIA

 

[KnollyBro]

Sorry I can't really concur with your thoughts as I've always believed the tyre pressure is your base from which you then set your suspension accordingly to the riding conditions. That tyre pressure in my view really doesn't change much ( just adjusting maxim grip ) as you could get into the situation pretty quickly where the suspension is reacting to the tyre flex rather than the track you are riding on.

Shall we get back to the OP question.

Wayne Wayne Wayne... when you attempt to quote someone, you should at least try to quote what they are talking about. Lets summarize my last post:

1. Forum contributor's statements/beliefs would have more credibility if they were supported with a video.
2. Forum members should be happy to share where they ride as it helps readers understand what kind of rider they might be (RE: Bucks?)
3. Some people sound incredible in written form but tend to be pretty average when you meet them.
4. Riding style and setup, including tires and tire pressure, are a personal choice. Whatever works for you, on your trails, whatever the conditions, is ultimately up to you.
5. Threads evolve as people contribute.

 

[Waynemarlow]

Wayne Wayne Wayne... when you attempt to quote someone, you should at least try to quote what they are talking about. Lets summarize my last post:

1. Forum contributor's statements/beliefs would have more credibility if they were supported with a video.
2. Forum members should be happy to share where they ride as it helps readers understand what kind of rider they might be (RE: Bucks?)
3. Some people sound incredible in written form but tend to be pretty average when you meet them.
4. Riding style and setup, including tires and tire pressure, are a personal choice. Whatever works for you, on your trails, whatever the conditions, is ultimately up to you.
5. Threads evolve as people contribute.

Really, so you are saying one only gets cred if you put video on line, as in your case, of some mediocre riding down some where at a place called Whistler. It would only take bar a few clicks on the likes of YouTube to find far more informative vids based around the O P question and about 1 more click to find actual well edited and filmed riding.

Your point 3, was that aimed as an insult at me or just another generalisation from someone who believes he’s a hero to us all ? Sadly I think more than a few of us would think of you just as another brash big head than hero.

Point 4, absolutely but then you seem to think that all bikes need to be set up for Whistler as that’s your only reference it would seem. In that big wide bike park of ours, it’s a very different world every km I’m afraid.

Now point 5, how you got sidetracked from the OP question to reliving your dreams on video seems a tad to far off course for most.

Ah well, such is folks.

 

[KnollyBro]

Really, so you are saying one only gets cred if you put video on line, as in your case, of some mediocre riding down some where at a place called Whistler. It would only take bar a few clicks on the likes of YouTube to find far more informative vids based around the O P question and about 1 more click to find actual well edited and filmed riding.

Your point 3, was that aimed as an insult at me or just another generalisation from someone who believes he’s a hero to us all ? Sadly I think more than a few of us would think of you just as another brash big head than hero.

Point 4, absolutely but then you seem to think that all bikes need to be set up for Whistler as that’s your only reference it would seem. In that big wide bike park of ours, it’s a very different world every km I’m afraid.

Now point 5, how you got sidetracked from the OP question to reliving your dreams on video seems a tad to far off course for most.

Ah well, such is folks.

Point 1: First off, I would like to say I am emotionally damaged by your review of my video riding, but I am not. I posted it to show where and how I ride and because it was mentioned in the professionally edited videos I also posted. If you didn't like it, that's ok. Videos can serve many purposes. They can help others learn technique, showcase areas to ride, entertain and even act as a memory (like a photograph but better!). Whistler is not necessity the BEST place in the world to ride, it is one of the most well known places, that more people have ridden, from around the world. Where is Bucks?

You did not address Point 2.

Point 3: Hero? Only to my wife, kids and grand kids . I am an average rider with 15 years mtb experience. I have ridden some of the best places in the world . I post my videos to reminisce of of my glory days when I end up in an Old Age Home. I am 60 years old.

Point 4: I don't set my bike up for Whistler. I add a little more air to ride the faster trails if we go to the bike park there. I mostly ride the North Shore and Squamish. Whistler also has lots of valley trails. There is a lot of variety in our area. I would like to see where you ride so I can understand your point, which at this point, has no reference. Where do you ride? Any place we have heard of?

Point 5: The most popular tire at Whistler Bike Park is the Maxxis DHF as people switch their front tires to their rear to save money when they wear out. The most popular setup in Squamish is an Assigai front and DHR II rear. The question was answered a long time ago and is very dependent on where you ride and what type of riding you do. What tires do you use? Where do you ride?