Garmin watch data field for Shimano STEPS EMTBs

[mark.ai]

I was clarifying because of the name of the add-on. ;-)

It's great work, Mark - the issue is not yours, its with the dumbass amateurs who write the firmware at software at Shimano.

Hehe, I like to think they were pushing the boundaries before anyone else had come up with a better way, and they were maybe making things up as they went along!

I'll try and dig up an E8000 display when I get time and see if I can detect any Bluetooth data from it. Were you just trying it out of interest, or would it be useful to you? (Personally I like being able to see the exact battery % rather than what is shown on the displays).

 

[RickBullotta]

Hehe, I like to think they were pushing the boundaries before anyone else had come up with a better way, and they were maybe making things up as they went along!

I'll try and dig up an E8000 display when I get time and see if I can detect any Bluetooth data from it. Were you just trying it out of interest, or would it be useful to you? (Personally I like being able to see the exact battery % rather than what is shown on the displays).

It would be, but from everything I've found in my own research, you'll only be able to get DI2 data and nothing from the Steps system/eMTB drive system.

 

[Lowkku]

The VA4 is on the compatibility list for mine, so it should be listed in the app store for you to download: STEPS EMTB Data (And I checked in the simulator that the VA4 supports BLE!)

Edit: actually it may possibly not show up if your VA4 isn't on the latest firmware - so if you can't see it check your watch is up to date via Garmin Express.

Indeed there was an update that popped later in the evening. I could load it now but trying if it works will have to wait.
That other, more complete app still doesen't show as compatible but I guess I can live with just battery % information

 

[Lowkku]

Got bike back, but can't make the connection. Screen keeps bluetooth icon on so there is something happening (BT works, since I adjusted bike settings via phone app).
Datafield is counting up but doesen't seem to find the bike. Also ate 60% of watch battery over night so it definetly wants to ping something.

Have any of you that has this app working changed bike passkey from 000000 to something else? I tried other phone apps and if I don't enter (my foolishly) changed shimano BLE passkey 123456 then everything gets stuck midway on a error. And entering bluetooth LE passkey is not a possibility on watch. Also, resetting back to 000000 is not possible without PC interface.

 

[mark.ai]

Got bike back, but can't make the connection. Screen keeps bluetooth icon on so there is something happening (BT works, since I adjusted bike settings via phone app).
Datafield is counting up but doesen't seem to find the bike. Also ate 60% of watch battery over night so it definetly wants to ping something.

Have any of you that has this app working changed bike passkey from 000000 to something else? I tried other phone apps and if I don't enter (my foolishly) changed shimano BLE passkey 123456 then everything gets stuck midway on a error. And entering bluetooth LE passkey is not a possibility on watch. Also, resetting back to 000000 is not possible without PC interface.

Ahh that is "interesting" and might be a problem for my app (sorry). Indeed I have never changed the Bluetooth password on my bike, so I assume it is still 000000. If anything connecting to your bike is required to use the password (which makes sense for security), then it is probably possible to do that - but I will need to work out what is required from the Shimano Bluetooth format. The password could then be entered in the data field settings (by you) so it could connect.

But like I say I'll need to work out how Shimano receive the password value. The app is currently using the maximum number of Garmin CIQ allowed "data connections"/"BLE profiles" in order to connect, so if a new one is required in order to send the password then it wouldn't be possible to add it … Sorry for the technical note, but just to explain it may or may not be possible (I don't know yet), so don't get any hopes up

I'm also lacking free time at the moment, so not sure when I'll be able to look into this ...

Out of interest @Lowkku which display do you have, or ew-en100?

 

[Lowkku]

Ahh that is "interesting" and might be a problem for my app (sorry). Indeed I have never changed the Bluetooth password on my bike, so I assume it is still 000000. If anything connecting to your bike is required to use the password (which makes sense for security), then it is probably possible to do that - but I will need to work out what is required from the Shimano Bluetooth format. The password could then be entered in the data field settings (by you) so it could connect.

But like I say I'll need to work out how Shimano receive the password value. The app is currently using the maximum number of Garmin CIQ allowed "data connections"/"BLE profiles" in order to connect, so if a new one is required in order to send the password then it wouldn't be possible to add it … Sorry for the technical note, but just to explain it may or may not be possible (I don't know yet), so don't get any hopes up

I'm also lacking free time at the moment, so not sure when I'll be able to look into this ...

Out of interest @Lowkku which display do you have, or ew-en100?

My display is the 7000 model.
Interesting limitation on shimano's side to not be able to revert to default in the first place.
I dont know how Garmin CIQ (or anything, really) works, but would make sense it will already use one of the "slots" to send that 000000 and user determined key to replace that would be a same thing.
Please update this thread if you find time to make the modification and I will try it out.

 

[Tuplis]

I have a changed password and everything works like a charm.

 

[mark.ai]

I have a changed password and everything works like a charm.

Oh, that is very interesting too, thanks for letting us know Although now I'm not sure what the problem could be for @Lowkku - two things come to mind that you can try:

1. Check the settings for the EMTB STEPS Datafield in Garmin Connect Mobile or Garmin Express, and make sure that "Lock to MAC address" is turned off (at least for now)
2. Try flicking up and down the assist modes on your bike a couple of times while the app is doing the scan. I notice sometimes that mine can be slow to connect until I do that.

 

[Lowkku]

Oh, that is very interesting too, thanks for letting us know Although now I'm not sure what the problem could be for @Lowkku - two things come to mind that you can try:

1. Check the settings for the EMTB STEPS Datafield in Garmin Connect Mobile or Garmin Express, and make sure that "Lock to MAC address" is turned off (at least for now)
2. Try flicking up and down the assist modes on your bike a couple of times while the app is doing the scan. I notice sometimes that mine can be slow to connect until I do that.

OK, so it is something that's wrong in my end then. I had the MAC lock off already, and tried the buttons. It is an active connection becouse BT icon in screen stays on. Second I turn off the datafield or change to another, BT icon disappears. Appears again if I change to your datafield.

Would be nice to know if it's Shitmano or Garmin issue at this point.
Tried uninstalling, reinstalling, rebooting watch too. I'll try again from beginning when I get back home

 

[kloxxe]

Mark, could you make your app compatible with the Fenix 3HR and the Fenix Chronos. I have the Chronos and it does support ANT+ and BLE.

Thanks!

 

[Winryn]

Can this app be used to connect via ant + to the e8000 display. I connect my garmin edge to mine just so I have an accurate battery percentage but would rather not have the extra display on the bars

 

[mark.ai]

Can this app be used to connect via ant + to the e8000 display. I connect my garmin edge to mine just so I have an accurate battery percentage but would rather not have the extra display on the bars

Unfortunately it doesn't work with the E8000 display currently.

I thought it may be possible to add, so I just dug out my old E8000 display for a quick test. It seems like I can connect using BLE to the E8000 display, but I can't immediately see any way to obtain the battery information - the data is a different format to the EW-EN100 & E7000 ...

So my datafield only works with the EW-EN100 and the E7000 display unfortunately

 

[mark.ai]

Mark, could you make your app compatible with the Fenix 3HR and the Fenix Chronos. I have the Chronos and it does support ANT+ and BLE.

Thanks!

Unfortunately neither of those is compatible

They may have BLE, but it seems the Garmin CIQ libraries for BLE don't work on them. This could possibly be something that Garmin enables in the future - but it is more likely that (for some reason) the hardware is not compatible in some way with the particular way they are doing things.

It's only recently that Garmin added BLE support for CIQ apps, so it only seems to work for the newest watches. And even then it is slightly weird what is supported (the Vivoactive 3 Music works, but the Vivoactive 3 doesn't!)

 

[Winryn]

Unfortunately it doesn't work with the E8000 display currently.

I thought it may be possible to add, so I just dug out my old E8000 display for a quick test. It seems like I can connect using BLE to the E8000 display, but I can't immediately see any way to obtain the battery information - the data is a different format to the EW-EN100 & E7000 ...

So my datafield only works with the EW-EN100 and the E7000 display unfortunately

Thanks for the reply

If my garmin edge displays the steps battery percentage with the normal garmin sw, will the watch do the same with the standard sw or is it because the edge has di2 support it can talk to my bike ?

 

[mark.ai]

Thanks for the reply

If my garmin edge displays the steps battery percentage with the normal garmin sw, will the watch do the same with the standard sw or is it because the edge has di2 support it can talk to my bike ?

Yep, I think for the Edge connecting to E8000 display it's because of Di2 and using ANT+, and for the Edge connecting to E7000/EW-EN100 it's also ANT+. I think in both cases Garmin wrote their own software to read the ANT+ data format (it's different for both). But I don't have a clue about the custom ANT+ formats that Shimano use ...

I went with BLE as I can use a phone app to see what data is being sent (e.g. LightBlue). I released the software if you're a developer and want to investigate or make any improvements: markdotai/emtb

 

[JanCapek]

Due to current lockdown I have hard time getting my hands to some ebike with Shimano system with ANT+ . I hope once I will have the opportunity I will be able to add compatibility to my apps via ANT+ which will then work on all Garmins. So keep fingers crossed.

 

[lamomie]

hi jan, garmin native application already exists, is it possible to log the data in the .fit file

 

[JanCapek]

hi jan, garmin native application already exists, is it possible to log the data in the .fit file

Only for very few models and they do not log data to fit.

 

[lamomie]

and you, you cannot recover these data in their application and historicize them?

 

[JanCapek]

no, that is not possible. That is why Ebike Field apps handle all on their own.

 

[lamomie]

ok thanks, if you need to test, I have an edge 530 and a step 8000 with display SC7000

 

[rb.]

So what I’m getting from this thread is that if I want to see the battery percentage for my ebike with a 7000 display, I need to go buy a garmin watch that is compatible?
I downloaded Jan’s app onto my Garmin 520, but it would not connect to the bike. (Maybe user error).

 

[lamomie]

So what I’m getting from this thread is that if I want to see the battery percentage for my ebike with a 7000 display, I need to go buy a garmin watch that is compatible?
I downloaded Jan’s app onto my Garmin 520, but it would not connect to the bike. (Maybe user error).

jan's app only works for spe levo currently, it hasn't finished the one for shimano

 

[Sapientiea]

Currently there is no app for the 'not supported' garmin devices. Only ones that officially have access to shimano steps are edge explore,1030, 830 and 530 as far as I remember. My edge explore works fine, but my wifes 520 does not work and or there are no applications. 520 does have functinallity for DI2 shifting....Looks like it is another marketing 'trick' from Garmin to boost sales....

 

[mark.ai]

So what I’m getting from this thread is that if I want to see the battery percentage for my ebike with a 7000 display, I need to go buy a garmin watch that is compatible?
I downloaded Jan’s app onto my Garmin 520, but it would not connect to the bike. (Maybe user error).

Yep the options seem to be:

• Garmin Edge (official): explore,1030, 830, 530
• My CIQ app (STEPS EMTB Data) using Bluetooth on a watch - check the compatibility list: STEPS EMTB Data
• This other CIQ app (Shimano step E8000 data fields) using ANT+: Shimano step E8000 data fields - it says it is compatible with the 520 by the way (but when I tried it on my watch this app seemed unreliable ... but see how it works for you)
• Hopefully Jan Capek will also get his apps working using ANT+ too

 

[lamomie]

Yep the options seem to be:

• Garmin Edge (official): explore,1030, 830, 530
• My CIQ app (STEPS EMTB Data) using Bluetooth on a watch - check the compatibility list: STEPS EMTB Data
• This other CIQ app (Shimano step E8000 data fields) using ANT+: Shimano step E8000 data fields - it says it is compatible with the 520 by the way (but when I tried it on my watch this app seemed unreliable ... but see how it works for you)
• Hopefully Jan Capek will also get his apps working using ANT+ too

I confirm that this app (Shimano step E8000 data fields) does not communicate even on an edge 530 associated with sc7000

 

[rb.]

Yep the options seem to be:

• Garmin Edge (official): explore,1030, 830, 530
• My CIQ app (STEPS EMTB Data) using Bluetooth on a watch - check the compatibility list: STEPS EMTB Data
• This other CIQ app (Shimano step E8000 data fields) using ANT+: Shimano step E8000 data fields - it says it is compatible with the 520 by the way (but when I tried it on my watch this app seemed unreliable ... but see how it works for you)
• Hopefully Jan Capek will also get his apps working using ANT+ too

I believe shimano is seriously lacking on their software to not have a better app and at the very least be able to see battery percentage.
But since that’s not the case I just ordered a Garmin watch that will work with your program Mark. Thanks for that. Gonna sell my Apple Watch and maybe computer garmin now, since this watch should be able to do it all.

 

[mark.ai]

I believe shimano is seriously lacking on their software to not have a better app and at the very least be able to see battery percentage.
But since that’s not the case I just ordered a Garmin watch that will work with your program Mark. Thanks for that. Gonna sell my Apple Watch and maybe computer garmin now, since this watch should be able to do it all.

It had better work then Any problems let me know!

And totally agree that Shimano compatibility is lacking - hopefully they'll fix it with the next cycle of hardware as competitors are moving ahead ...

 

[rb.]

It had better work then Any problems let me know!

And totally agree that Shimano compatibility is lacking - hopefully they'll fix it with the next cycle of hardware as competitors are moving ahead ...

Got the watch and it appears to be connected and showing my battery percentage as intended. Awesome!

 

[R120]

Which watch is that?