Full face or convertible helmet

[Arron M]

So I’m currently in a MET Parachute FF, fits well, but it’s cracked, and not from a crash, so I’m not keen to replace like for like.

I’m seeing a lot of helmets are now becoming convertible, Bell Super DH, Super 3r, Super air R, Met parachute MCR etc and I’m wondering, how do these perform in a decent crash?
One LBS said they won’t sell convertibles because of that time the chin bar came off a Bell and caused some pretty nasty injuries, but I cannot validate this story anywhere online.

SO, I don’t want a removable chin bar, but it seems the helmets that fit me best (Met parachute MCR, Bell Super 3r) are the ones that have them.

Is my hesitation regarding convertibles warranted?

Any insight appreciated

 

[Arron M]

I have the super DH from 2020. It’s pretty nice but for sure if I had a lower head hit or face hit it would explode. But I still use it.

recently I got the Dainese linea 01 and it’s super light and airy...

Thanks, I forgot about Dainese, I think I know a stockist, I’ll go try one on

 

[Akiwi]

In German they say there is no such thing as an "eierlegende wollmilchsau" translated is "An egg laying Wolly milking pig" or simply "a jack of all trades"
If you do downhill and need the protection, then get a proper full face.
I have a convertible helmet an Alpina King Karapax, which I use occasionally as a full face, but not as much as I anticipated. I don't do bikeparks very often and never real hardcore downhill. I thought I would throw the chin piece in the backpack and use it when I needed it.. but it is a full Faff getting it on or off, so you don't do it.
My advice is to get a good normal helmet and a Full face for when you need it.

 

[Arron M]

@Akiwi, I totally agree, and that’s what I’d prefer, but my funny shaped melon is preventing a good fit on the regular FF lids, it seems I prefer a lid with a BOA tension system, like the Bell And Met helmets.

For what it’s worth my current lid is exactly what I want, regular full face with a BOA tensioner, but like I said, it’s cracked (not from a crash) so I have lost faith in this model.

 

[Pdoz]

A month ago my daughter tested her leatt convertible - face plant hard enough to break a rib / ac joint / scaphoid. The chin piece took a decent blow and the latch broke but everything remained in place and did it's job. No facial trauma , she copped enough of a hit to be vomiting for a while but the helmet worked.. The lid was twisted by the impact !

I've tested a bell super 3 r , although not as dramatically - no complaints. I replaced it with a bell super air which is a great lid - good ventilation etc. NB the two have a different fit with the forehead on the super air shallower than the super 3 r . One thing I HATE about the bell is the pins on the retaining strap come loose in storage ( not whilst riding) - we have 3 and the6 all do it.

Ps The leatt fit is half way between the bell 3 r and the bell super air , but the weird donut things are annoying when they rub against scabby old man scalp cancers.

 

[Hamina]

What is the difference between the heavier MTB full face helmets and MX helmets?

 

[JP-NZ]

So I’m currently in a MET Parachute FF, fits well, but it’s cracked, and not from a crash, so I’m not keen to replace like for like.

I’m seeing a lot of helmets are now becoming convertible, Bell Super DH, Super 3r, Super air R, Met parachute MCR etc and I’m wondering, how do these perform in a decent crash?
One LBS said they won’t sell convertibles because of that time the chin bar came off a Bell and caused some pretty nasty injuries, but I cannot validate this story anywhere online.

SO, I don’t want a removable chin bar, but it seems the helmets that fit me best (Met parachute MCR, Bell Super 3r) are the ones that have them.

Is my hesitation regarding convertibles warranted?

Any insight appreciated

Have you tried a Fox Proframe, same weight as the Parachute and better protection IMHO

 

[Slowroller]

I went from a Parachute to a Proframe, it's a better helmet. If I'm riding on dirt, I wear a FF, I'm too handsome not to.

I only wear a half lid on my gravel bike or commuting.

 

[Arron M]

@JP-NZ
@Slowroller
Unfortunately the proframe was the worst fitting lid of all the ones I tried.
2023 model Froframe RS is bringing a BOA tensioner which may solve fit fit issue.

 

[flash]

There's a reason you can't race enduro or downhill in a convertible helmet. Even at club level. Well most of them anyway. My Bell isn't rated enough to race in. It doesn't even have a race legal chin strap.

Having said that, I really like my Bell Super Air R. It's super comfortable. I tried several lids (and brands) and this one fitted me best. OTOH my girl finds Fox lids the most comfortable. She doesn't like the fit of Bell at all. I didn't like the Fox.

I only use the chin bar about 20-30% of the time. I am not a full on enduro rider and I tend to avoid high consequences features and I don't race my eMTB. If I did I'd have a rated lid. It suits me really well for new trails or when this old lump of meat tries to learn something new or when I'm on a gravity trail. I haven't tested it properly, thankfully but I have filled it up with dirt and leaves with no teeth lost. I consider that a win. It's got excellent ventilation in our very hot summer climate. It's comfortable with the bar on or off. It's not heavy. The bar doesn't impact fit or vision at all. It's good with glasses. The chin bar clips on securely. I've never had any issues with it releasing or the clips coming undone.

I really like the helmet. I have a new one in storage in case I crack or stack this one because I know I'll buy the same again. But I'm also well aware that this isn't a DH lid, really. It's great for average riders like me.

Gordon

 

[Pdoz]

I really struggle with the assumption that DH racing certification translates into a safer lid. If anyone has any scientific data to prove this, I'd love to see it.

The convertibles mostly fail because the chin bar deforms outside of an arbitrary standard set by the dh racing people. NB - DEFORMS , not breaks. Cars have used crumple zones to absorb impact for decades, would you argue that the foam liner in our lids isn't allowed to deform on impact?

Again, I'd love to see some scientific data. I'm NOT arguing convertibles are safer, but I don't race so my choice of lid isn't restricted by a certification standard that doesn't make sense to me. I want primary prevention - so a light, well ventilated lid that has good peripheral vision, good acoustics so I can hear my traction, lower weight to reduce neck injury. The chin bar is there to reduce facial trauma but I'm yet to be convinced a rigid chin bar is any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL cause trauma -especially neck injuries. The only studies I've seen implying reduced neck injuries with full face come from crunching data on ROAD motorbike accidents in Asia - and the cynic in me thinks that an Asian urban rider wearing a full face has very different risk acceptance to the average open face street warrior

 

[Farmernz]

I use a bell super air and find it very comfortable, even on hot summer rides, I used to ride with no pads and an open face until I saw a very simple crash where the riders bar clamp came loose which resulted a very fast over the bar and the guys helmet being split open- thankful he only had concussion, now I wear all the gear underneath a comfortable layer of merino and don’t notice I have it on. I’ve been over the bars hard enough to inflame my oesophagus ( apparently you can) since buying the helmet and feel so much more confident about wearing it.

 

[Mikerb]

I use an open face for XC type rides...ie no jumps, no drops, no tech downhill. For every other type of ride I use a SMith Mainline Full Face helmet. Admittedly we are not ( normally) subjected to really hot weather although I have been wearing the Smith during the recent heatwave without any overheating problems..............a lot of my riding is in forest which is always cooler so that helps.
The Smith does not have the BOA tensioner you seem to prefer but it does come with a good selection of pads to enable a tailor fit.

 

[Dax]

Riding in the UK, where its generally cold and teeth are expensive, I wear full face for almost all riding...don't see the point of not having fixed chin protection. Mostly I ride trails, some DH or enduro or whatever else I find when out riding.

Currently I use a Troy Lee Stage, which replaced my Proframe after an unscheduled lie down, the Stage is a LOT comfier and has impact absorbing polystyrene around the chin guard too.

I did buy a xc lid last summer in the heat wave after a few years of only owning full face, it's nice but my chin feels really exposed

 

[flash]

I really struggle with the assumption that DH racing certification translates into a safer lid. If anyone has any scientific data to prove this, I'd love to see it.

The convertibles mostly fail because the chin bar deforms outside of an arbitrary standard set by the dh racing people. NB - DEFORMS , not breaks. Cars have used crumple zones to absorb impact for decades, would you argue that the foam liner in our lids isn't allowed to deform on impact?

Again, I'd love to see some scientific data. I'm NOT arguing convertibles are safer, but I don't race so my choice of lid isn't restricted by a certification standard that doesn't make sense to me. I want primary prevention - so a light, well ventilated lid that has good peripheral vision, good acoustics so I can hear my traction, lower weight to reduce neck injury. The chin bar is there to reduce facial trauma but I'm yet to be convinced a rigid chin bar is any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL cause trauma -especially neck injuries. The only studies I've seen implying reduced neck injuries with full face come from crunching data on ROAD motorbike accidents in Asia - and the cynic in me thinks that an Asian urban rider wearing a full face has very different risk acceptance to the average open face street warrior

You may be right. What is certain is that none of the convertibles connect to the neck brace systems that are now available on some helmets or to the upper body protection systems some do. Most also don't have the correct release which is so emergency services only get systems they know immediately how to work with. As for the helmet itself, I have no idea. I just assume the boffins who run things might have a good reason for not allowing convertibles. Most convertibles have more ventilation and that's a hazard for sticks and things entering the helmet. Certified helmets limit this. But yes, data would be good.

I also agree with your purchase decisions and use the same for myself. It's to protect my chin/teeth when I'm trying to push a bit and for that I think it's excellent. And I think there's always some limitation to what protection will protect. I think my Bell is a good compromise between protection and heat/ventilation. Heat exhaustion is a real thing for you and I in summer and that's just as dangerous as not wearing a lid.

Gordon

 

[Brent8275]

Has anyone tried the leatt 4.0 Enduro? Removable chin bar, but also DH certified. Supposedly neck brace compatible, however to what extent this is, I'm unsure.

My boy has the 3.0 which has been a great helmet, super light and breathable, however not DH rated. Will probably upgrade him and myself to the 4.0 soon.

Would be interested to hear if anyone has any feedback on this model.

 

[Kevlasultanpus]

In German they say there is no such thing as an "eierlegende wollmilchsau" translated is "An egg laying Wolly milking pig" or simply "a jack of all trades"
If you do downhill and need the protection, then get a proper full face.
I have a convertible helmet an Alpina King Karapax, which I use occasionally as a full face, but not as much as I anticipated. I don't do bikeparks very often and never real hardcore downhill. I thought I would throw the chin piece in the backpack and use it when I needed it.. but it is a full Faff getting it on or off, so you don't do it.
My advice is to get a good normal helmet and a Full face for when you need it.

I tend to agree.....but will Murphy's law come in to play??? You needed the full face when you only took the standard lid.
I bought a full face out of canada that's only 600g .... unheard of say 5 years ago

 

[Kevlasultanpus]

I tend to agree.....but will Murphy's law come in to play??? You needed the full face when you only took the standard lid.
I bought a full face out of canada that's only 600g .... unheard of say 5 years ago

Trigger Ff Mips

 

[Dax]

I tend to agree.....but will Murphy's law come in to play??? You needed the full face when you only took the standard lid.
I bought a full face out of canada that's only 600g .... unheard of say 5 years ago

Murphys law is indeed the reason I wear full face most of the time, but with a convertible you can pack the chin guard for long XC climbs and attach it for the interesting descents

 

[Hamina]

I wonder why the full face helmet weight is quite often a little issue in mountain biking but "never" when running mx. Not that I'm any MX-specialist but..

 

[Dax]

I wonder why the full face helmet weight is quite often a little issue in mountain biking but "never" when running mx. Not that I'm any MX-specialist but..

Wear your MX helmet mountain biking and report back!

 

[Hamina]

Wear your MX helmet mountain biking and report back!

Sorry I was thinking DH or equivalent but forgot to mention it in my previous post. My mistake!

 

[Labrador29]

Murphys law is indeed the reason I wear full face most of the time, but with a convertible you can pack the chin guard for long XC climbs and attach it for the interesting descents

Without wishing to insult you, that is dumb thinking.
Last week our group had finished our ride on an MTB Park, and were heading back for coffee riding on a tarsealed road. While turning right at a minor 'T' intersection, one rider touched the rear wheel on an MTB in front of him resulting in an OTB. His face met the road with the main impact on the forehead and jaw area. His FF helmet, with a permanent chin bar, saved at the very least, a smashed jaw/ broken teeth and possibly a smashed cheek bone.
A few months ago, I had a fright on a grade 4 track when I bounced off a small hidden tree root, and got shot over a two metre drop, landing on my back. I have no doubt my day pack full of compressed polystyrene, and full face IXS Trigger MPS FF helmet saved me from serious injury. My helmet was only good for the rubbish bin.
I may look an idiot wearing a FF helmet with permanent chin bar on some of my rides, but there is nobody I know who can tell when they are going to have a serious crash.
Purchase a FF helmet with a permanently affixed chin bar and take the decision making out of it.

 

[irie]

... I'm yet to be convinced a rigid chin bar is any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL cause trauma -especially neck injuries ...

It does not have to be any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL causes of trauma, it merely has to be more effective at reducing MORE causes of trauma.

 

[Pdoz]

It does not have to be any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL causes of trauma, it merely has to be more effective at reducing MORE causes of trauma.

Sigh....I could have used all cause mortality which is a generally accepted phrase in scientific literature, but I'm more interested in morbidity. I changed morbidity to trauma to try and communicate in this non scientific conversation , is that not clear enough for you?

 

[Dax]

Sigh....I could have used all cause mortality which is a generally accepted phrase in scientific literature, but I'm more interested in morbidity. I changed morbidity to trauma to try and communicate in this non scientific conversation , is that not clear enough for you?

Really isn’t. So should we wear full face helmets or not?

 

[Zimmerframe]

This is a thread which seems to come up quite often .. some nice pics from last time ..

Latest full-face helmets with detachable chin-bar recommendations please

Hi all, I have been wearing a FOX Proframe for over 2 yrs now (only whilst riding my mtb though!); and its time for a new one. For those of you that have experience of the FF helmets with detachable chin bars, please could you offer your feedback. I have a funny shaped back of my head, its flat...

www.emtbforums.com

 

[irie]

Sigh....I could have used all cause mortality which is a generally accepted phrase in scientific literature, but I'm more interested in morbidity. I changed morbidity to trauma to try and communicate in this non scientific conversation , is that not clear enough for you?

"Morbidity" is generally related to disease so trauma is probably a better term to use.

But you misunderstand the point of my post which took issue with the use of the word "ALL" ...

... I'm yet to be convinced a rigid chin bar is any more effective than a flexible one at reducing ALL cause trauma -especially neck injuries ...

 

[irie]

Really isn’t. So should we wear full face helmets or not?

And with which levels of risk under which circumstances.

 

[MBj1703]

At the moment I'm using a Cartoni C-MANIAC 2.0 MX.
In general a nice helmet, but on the back it is "too short". Also the chin-bar is a bit "soft".

Today I ordered the Leatt Enduro MTB 4.0. Also with detachable chin-bar, but is the only one which has the ASTM Downhill certification.